"If he didn't like me before.." Mentality.
MikeM53082
Posts: 1,199 Member
"If he didn't like me before when I was overweight, why should I give him the time of day now?"
I see this quote thrown around every so often on this board. What's everyones thoughts on it?
I also see the following quote by Marilyn Monroe used every so often by women I hang out with
"If you can't handle a girl at her worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve her at her best"
To me, both of these quotes insinuate the same thing. If a man doesn't like you at your heaviest then why should you like him after you undertake a huge physical transformation and drop the weight. I take this as having an enormous sense of self entitlement that a man should be just as into an obese woman as he is into a thin one.
That isn't fair to the man one bit. I wouldn't expect the same women to be into me if I was 100 lbs heavier. It's just the simple facts of life.
I think both of these quotes are absolute rubbish.
I see this quote thrown around every so often on this board. What's everyones thoughts on it?
I also see the following quote by Marilyn Monroe used every so often by women I hang out with
"If you can't handle a girl at her worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve her at her best"
To me, both of these quotes insinuate the same thing. If a man doesn't like you at your heaviest then why should you like him after you undertake a huge physical transformation and drop the weight. I take this as having an enormous sense of self entitlement that a man should be just as into an obese woman as he is into a thin one.
That isn't fair to the man one bit. I wouldn't expect the same women to be into me if I was 100 lbs heavier. It's just the simple facts of life.
I think both of these quotes are absolute rubbish.
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From my standpoint, I wouldn't expect a guy to be attracted to me at my heaviest. Now, my recent guy said he's seen pics of me and he thinks I'm beautiful now and then. He wouldn't be less attracted to me if I gained the weight back. But he's 6'2 and 186, so I wouldn't be willing to gain it all back and weight more than he does. And really, I like that he can pick me up...0
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This made me think of something a male friend of mine said to me the other day while we were chatting online. I was mentioning my diet/exercise schedule, and while trying to be encouraging, he said, "Just a few more pounds lost and you will have guys on you like kids to a birthday cake." He did not mean to insult me, of course, but it stung anyway.
It stung because it made me feel like maybe I won't be totally attractive or 'dateable' until I reach my goal weight. And when I envision men who know me and like everything about me, but possibly won't go out with me because I am 30 lbs bigger than I should be, it makes me feel sad. It also tempts me to ask myself the first question in your post. I'm the same person that I have always been on the inside; isn't that what matters? Granted I am not morbidly obese, but where does one draw the line?0 -
I think it depends on the severity of the overweight.
For example, my weight has fluctuated the same 20-25 pounds since high school, with exceptions for being pregnant and having steroids/surgeries. It’s only happened once, but I’ve had a man who didn’t like me on the high end of that scale approach me at the lower weight. He was interested “now that you’ve slimmed down” and was looking forward to me slimming down even more. FAIL. Especially since “that time of the month” I water weight gain about 10 lbs and 2 sizes. So if weight is THAT big of a deal, then “you are not the one.”
OTOH, if I were carrying around 200+ lbs of extra weight I would totally understand why someone wouldn’t be interested in dating me. There’s a certain self-sabotaging mindset that I notice in many (not all, but many) extremely overweight people, often do to self-hatred and low self-esteem. In those cases, it makes sense to me that someone wouldn’t have been attracted. The personality/mindset flaws, in a sense, cause the overweight. I think some people who insist “if you didn’t like me then, you don’t deserve me now” are unwilling to admit (or unable to see) their own faulty mindset 200lbs ago. Or maybe they’re angry that people couldn’t “see through” the fat to their awesome personality, without realizing there was something in that personality which allowed them to get to that point in the first place.
Sometimes there’s justifiable anger that people are shallow (the same way they are with race, scarring, and other appearance issues). Unfortunately, you can get angry about it all day long but your anger doesn’t change the truth that people, especially when it comes to romance, are petty and shallow about appearance.0 -
I think a big part of losing weight is not just the size, but also the lifestyle change. When you lose weight, you may gain more confidence and put yourself out there more. I know for me, at my higher weight, it makes me more reserved when I really feel like I'm a more outgoing, adventurous person at heart. I plan to start stepping out of my comfort zone more often than what I do now...which might make men more attracted to me because they would be more attracted to that type of person. Even if inside you feel like the same person inside, you might be more involved in other activities or fun things that attracts someone to you, versus the more reserved, typically stay-at-home type girl.0
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I gained most of my weight from a health problem and my boyfriend at the time stuck with me through it. But that being said, I have never come across someone with doesn't want to be with me 20 lbs more so I don't really have that mindset. I know now I get more attention now but I am also healthy and much happier then I was before, plus when I was 20 lbs more then I am, I was still holding on to my past relationship. So if I didn't like who I was at that time, how am I supposed to expect someone else too?
For the MM quote, I hope that my best times greatly outweigh my bad moments but I would hope that if I was with someone they would stick by me for my bad moments. I don't expect perfectation out of my partner and I hope they realize I can't always be perfect.0 -
It's not about entitlement, it's about wanting someone to like you for who you are inside, rather than focusing on the outside, which is, let's face it, always going to change as the years go by. It can be self-defeating if taken to extremes, but the Monroe quote Mike mentioned is, I think, quite apt. No one, woman or man, is always going to look, or be at, their best. If you can't love them for who they are, in the face of all that life brings, then you probably shouldn't be together. At least not in a serious relationship way.
Particularly if weight-loss is a matter of a size or two, rather than a complete physical reinvention, I can see a strong justification for this sort of attitude. On most people, unless they're fairly minuscule, a clothing-size, or even two, is not a lot. Particularly for women, what size you are can depend on what the weather's like and where you are in your biological cycle! I would be very suspicious of any person who said to another "I've always liked you, but I couldn't date you when you were two sizes bigger. hey, now you're thinner, let's go out." That sort of behaviour implies a degree of insecurity in the person doing the asking that does not bode well for a future together. It also suggests that he/she is more interested in the superficial aspects of a relationship, and what he/she stands to gain in the eyes of the world from having a conventionally-'hot' person on their arm, than in the other person.
If I marry/commit to someone who only wanted to date me when I was at my 'best' (in their eyes), particularly if they knew, and liked me at my 'worst', but couldn't get past my appearance enough to act on liking me, at some point I may: have their baby, get very sick, or be involved in a disfiguring or disabling accident. If they only want me at my best, I have no reason to believe that they'll stick around when the going gets tough, as it sometimes does in life. Why, if they've displayed the tendency to be shallow in that way, would I take that risk and give them that chance?0 -
Someone who has lost a lot of weight has gone through a transformation. This is a lot more than physical. They've made a commitment, they are passionate about something, and they have demonstrated the ability to overcome the odds for the better.
These are all attractive qualities that would not have been there prior to the weight loss.
And, realistically, something has to bring people together initially. This is generally physical attraction.0 -
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/664657-if-they-didnt-like-me-before-mentality
I posted this topic about 3 months ago....Are any curious to see if they changed their point of view from losing some more weight.0 -
I admit, some there's a guy or two I've met that have just had me by the heart with their personalities, and then failed for attractiveness.
If they became attractive, I'd probably drop all for them.
But that's just the balance in life.
You can't change it.0 -
I don't think like that.
There was a reason I was obese..I was addicted to food, I didn't cope well with life with out a crutch, I was physically incapable of doing more than minimal activities. I was tired, would have made an unexciting sexual partner. I was full of self doubt and loathing about my body. Heck I wouldn't have wanted to date me then. So why should I expect anyone else. I was still sweet and smart, and kind and caring and had a pretty smile.
But now things are different. I'm physically capable of anything I put my mind to, I'm adventurous, and have a zest for life and I'm a happy person...who wouldn't want to date me
lol jk. But really I'm still sweet and smart and kind and caring with a pretty smile but I'm so much more now than when I was obese. I do get it.
I think that a man should not hold out for perfection in a physical form because he will be lonely...he should be accepting of what age does to a woman's body unless he wants to pay for the upkeep haha. But both partners should want to be healthy and happy together..so that will have a positive effect on their physical appearance long term. Ultimately it comes down to whats beyond the body though, it also has to be a mating of souls..that will let a couple stand the test of time. My soul is the same now as when I was obese..I just am happier now, and more self aware.0 -
I have had this mentality before... it is easy to have when you are quite overweight, but still know you are an amazing person inside. However, after making the changes I have (and I'm far from done!) and being on the other side of it.. I have really changed my mind.
I don't actually want someone to unconditionally accept me at my heaviest weight (not just talking a 20-30 lbs swing here!). Because at that weight I'm not confident, and I clearly demonstrate that I don't love and care about myself the way I should.
I need to change my body and my life for myself of course. But I also want to date and fall in love with someone who takes care of himself, and like me (now), wants to challenge himself, keep growing and changing and pushing. I don't want to be with someone very overweight..because that is not where I am mentally anymore.
Of course, people change and things happen in life and weight gain can happen. But I don't want the excuse of "oh he loves me unconditionally.. so I can just let myself go..". I want to always be inspired to look good for myself and my partner, not through fear of him not loving me anymore, but that we both want the very best for ourselves and each other, mentally, emotionally and physically.0 -
I don't know .. I guess my problem is .. if you love my personality, my smile, my sense of humor etc etc etc.. but you aren't attracted to me because of my weight, then I'm not sure I would be attracted to YOU. I have never cared about weight. When I was at my ideal weight, I would have dated someone that was over weight if he treated me well and I liked him. To me the person is what matters. I have dated some really hot @ss holes.0
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I don't know .. I guess my problem is .. if you love my personality, my smile, my sense of humor etc etc etc.. but you aren't attracted to me because of my weight, then I'm not sure I would be attracted to YOU. I have never cared about weight. When I was at my ideal weight, I would have dated someone that was over weight if he treated me well and I liked him. To me the person is what matters. I have dated some really hot @ss holes.
Yeah, but isn't the difference between a wonderful friendship and a relationship the whole sticking appendages in holes part? And is it so wrong to only want to conduct such sticking on someone you are sexually attracted to? And is it also so wrong to only be sexually attracted to someone who is not obese, cares about their health, and proves this with their actions?
Edit: I'm not talking 20 pounds overweight here, I mean actually obese.0 -
So, I feel like I use my parents as a barometer a lot on here, but after 42 years of marriage and almost 50 as a couple, I think they stand as a good example of what to do.
If you really place that much stock in the way someone looks, please do not ever attempt to do that thing called marriage. And don't attempt to present yourself as someone who wants a serious, mature relationship. It's not for you, really. Because the last thing it is about is physical infatuation. My mom and dad are still together because they are best friends, not because they both look hot in a swimsuit at 62 (ha!)
I think it's a valid point to say that you wouldn't want a man or woman who would only have you at XYZ weight. They don't want you in that scenario, they want your ephemeral physical appearance. That's something no one can control forever. For long term relationships, it really IS the last thing that should compel you to stay. People get fat. People lose their hair. People have serious illnesses (like my dad.) Life ain't pretty a lot of the time.
If your precious set of prerequisites is going to be upset by any little change in life, and any strict set of arbitrary prerequisites *will* be, you're not marriage material. Serial monogamy material? Maybe. But not marriage.
*steps off soapbox*0 -
I don't know .. I guess my problem is .. if you love my personality, my smile, my sense of humor etc etc etc.. but you aren't attracted to me because of my weight, then I'm not sure I would be attracted to YOU. I have never cared about weight. When I was at my ideal weight, I would have dated someone that was over weight if he treated me well and I liked him. To me the person is what matters. I have dated some really hot @ss holes.
Yeah, but isn't the difference between a wonderful friendship and a relationship the whole sticking appendages in holes part? And is it so wrong to only want to conduct such sticking on someone you are sexually attracted to? And is it also so wrong to only be sexually attracted to someone who is not obese, cares about their health, and proves this with their actions?
Edit: I'm not talking 20 pounds overweight here, I mean actually obese.
Would you end a relationship/marriage where sex had been taken out of the picture for unforseeable reasons?0 -
I don't know .. I guess my problem is .. if you love my personality, my smile, my sense of humor etc etc etc.. but you aren't attracted to me because of my weight, then I'm not sure I would be attracted to YOU. I have never cared about weight. When I was at my ideal weight, I would have dated someone that was over weight if he treated me well and I liked him. To me the person is what matters. I have dated some really hot @ss holes.
Yeah, but isn't the difference between a wonderful friendship and a relationship the whole sticking appendages in holes part? And is it so wrong to only want to conduct such sticking on someone you are sexually attracted to? And is it also so wrong to only be sexually attracted to someone who is not obese, cares about their health, and proves this with their actions?
Edit: I'm not talking 20 pounds overweight here, I mean actually obese.
But that is your opinion. What you are attracted to. To me .. I am attracted to how people treat me. There is nothing wrong with the way either one of us thinks. I just know that if someone can't look past my weight .. either way .. whether they won't date me because I am too heavy for them .. or they are dating me because I am skinny .. I won't find them attractive and won't want to date them .. whether they are skinny or not.0 -
I don't know .. I guess my problem is .. if you love my personality, my smile, my sense of humor etc etc etc.. but you aren't attracted to me because of my weight, then I'm not sure I would be attracted to YOU. I have never cared about weight. When I was at my ideal weight, I would have dated someone that was over weight if he treated me well and I liked him. To me the person is what matters. I have dated some really hot @ss holes.
Yeah, but isn't the difference between a wonderful friendship and a relationship the whole sticking appendages in holes part? And is it so wrong to only want to conduct such sticking on someone you are sexually attracted to? And is it also so wrong to only be sexually attracted to someone who is not obese, cares about their health, and proves this with their actions?
Edit: I'm not talking 20 pounds overweight here, I mean actually obese.
Would you end a relationship/marriage where sex had been taken out of the picture for unforseeable reasons?
No of course I wouldn't, and this isn't about that. From my understanding, the thread was about initiating a relationship with someone that you would not have prior to them losing weight.
I think it is also shows poor dedication to your partner if you give up on physically caring for yourself after you have cemented a relationship with marriage. I see it as no different than ceasing to pay attention to them, surprise them with romantic gestures, and basically just work to keep things alive.
If my partner was injured in an accident or medical conditions beyond their control made their vagina disappear, I would not run for the hills. I think it is all about effort.0 -
For long term relationships, it really IS the last thing that should compel you to stay. People get fat. People lose their hair. People have serious illnesses (like my dad.) Life ain't pretty a lot of the time.
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I understand this mentality but I don't agree with it. I have stopped trying to find a guy at this point in my life because when I finally get closer to where I want to be as far as my weight goes then I will have different values in a person then I do currently. I want to be with someone who values being healthy and fit but don't really feel that I'm at a point right now where I can request that of someone when I'm so new on my journey of getting there. I also think that you have to at least be attracted to someone and part of that is physical attraction. You also must be attracted to them emotionally and mentally. I definitely have guys I wouldn't date because of their body type but mainly for me that would be really skinny men. I don't find them attractive and its a personal preference. I think that if its a difference of say 20lbs it shouldn't be a big deal but if its a difference of 80lbs that can definitely be a huge difference. I'm sure that mentally and emotionally I will change as I get closer to my goal so those things all come into play.0
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But that is your opinion. What you are attracted to. To me .. I am attracted to how people treat me. There is nothing wrong with the way either one of us thinks. I just know that if someone can't look past my weight .. either way .. whether they won't date me because I am too heavy for them .. or they are dating me because I am skinny .. I won't find them attractive and won't want to date them .. whether they are skinny or not.
You personally may not fall into the category of the average overweight person. You are working to change. Would you really want to date someone who did not care about their health? I'm not talking about someone who isn't obsessed with maintaining a 6 pack, but somewhere where there is obvious danger of suffering from their poor nutritional choices? Not to mention someone who would rather sit on the couch eating cheetos than go on a hike or enjoy the beach?
There are a lot more factors to chronic obesity than physical appearance. How will their mentality affect other areas of the relationship?0 -
But that is your opinion. What you are attracted to. To me .. I am attracted to how people treat me. There is nothing wrong with the way either one of us thinks. I just know that if someone can't look past my weight .. either way .. whether they won't date me because I am too heavy for them .. or they are dating me because I am skinny .. I won't find them attractive and won't want to date them .. whether they are skinny or not.
You personally may not fall into the category of the average overweight person. You are working to change. Would you really want to date someone who did not care about their health? I'm not talking about someone who isn't obsessed with maintaining a 6 pack, but somewhere where there is obvious danger of suffering from their poor nutritional choices? Not to mention someone who would rather sit on the couch eating cheetos than go on a hike or enjoy the beach?
There are a lot more factors to chronic obesity than physical appearance.
But see, to me that is a personality .. not their weight. Would you be attracted to a skinny person that would rather sit on the couch eating cheetos than go on a hike or to the beach .. cuz there are plenty of those too. Being overweight and being at an ideal weight .. I have always loved doing "stuff". My weight didn't matter. Maybe heavier I couldn't go as far, but I was there and having fun. So .. if you only want to hike with skinny me and not heavy me .. then I don't want to date that person.
But to not give someone a chance to go on a hike because of their weight is what I don't like. *shrugs*0 -
But see, to me that is a personality .. not their weight. Would you be attracted to a skinny person that would rather sit on the couch eating cheetos than go on a hike or to the beach .. cuz there are plenty of those too. Being overweight and being at an ideal weight .. I have always loved doing "stuff". My weight didn't matter. Maybe heavier I couldn't go as far, but I was there and having fun. So .. if you only want to hike with skinny me and not heavy me .. then I don't want to date that person.
But to not give someone a chance to go on a hike because of their weight is what I don't like. *shrugs*
I get it. You have a good attitude. But if weight is not a factor, why are you on this site? Why do you find it important to lose weight? I think that that part of your personality might be one of the things that is attractive about you. And with that comes a slim body.
Do you think that someone who would not approach you at a bar for being overweight is not a potential romantic candidate because of this attitude? Or is it just someone who previously rejected you because of your weight? I'm honestly curious, not trying to be rude here (as I generally am).0 -
I get it. You have a good attitude. But if weight is not a factor, why are you on this site? Why do you find it important to lose weight? I think that that part of your personality might be one of the things that is attractive about you. And with that comes a slim body. I put someone who is honestly making progress towards a healthy body in a similar category as someone who has already achieved that.
Do you think that someone who would not approach you at a bar for being overweight is not a potential romantic candidate because of this attitude? Or is it just someone who previously rejected you because of your weight? I'm honestly curious, not trying to be rude here (as I generally am).
I love this discussion because Mike and I were having a very similar one the other day. If everyone loved us for who we are (ideal), no one would likely try to lose weight. Jennifer and I fall into the same category here... I was always active. I kayaked, walked a lot, was never a couch potato! I just couldn't go as long as everyone else, or hurt like hell when I tried, but I wasn't going to let my weight hold me back. That was what made it harder to accept that someone didn't love ME for ME!
I say all that, and I will have to admit though that it does make a difference. I've lost 70 lbs and look different. I feel different, my confidence has changed, and my attitude towards men in particular has softened (much needed). So while I'm the same person at some level, I'm not. So now I get it... I was great before in personality, but now I'm even better so I'd expect more men to be open to dating me now than before despite much of me being mostly the same.
The question I have is how much extra is TOO much?! I'm still truthfully 50 lbs from normal, 20 lbs from just being overweight, so I am obese! However, i carry that differently than many because I have a lot of muscle and am currently only one size above the average in the US. Many people wouldn't KNOW I need to lose that much. But is that enough?! I don't think so.... I know online dating is very visual, but the difference in my interactions on POF and OKC versus Match is clear that I am not small enough... so where is the line??? When is it no longer about appearances ONLY? (I'm being facetious with the question and recognize the difference is really at the individual level but just wanted to throw that out there since I think that's what others are trying to get at!).0 -
I agree, if the weight loss and transformation in lifestyle is that significant it really does make a difference in the individual. If someone was already pretty healthy and just buckled down to lose a size or two more and suddenly a guy was up in her biz I can see the point.
Personally the way I see it is that -I - didn't like me at that point in my life, it's completely unfair to expect someone else to like me. Since changing the way I live my life, while I'm the same person, there's also quite a lot of difference. I'm genuinely happier and more confident when walking down the hallway, not just when I'm talking to someone about Green Lantern or zoology or debating politics (I've always been confident and happy in those areas).
That being said it's also changed who I am attracted to. I have passed up people because they live a lifestyle that's no longer compatible with mine - and it's reflected in their body type. That's what it boils down to. So if someone I was interested in 50lbs ago came up to me now and wanted to date me I'd understand and wouldn't be resentful in the least.0 -
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/664657-if-they-didnt-like-me-before-mentality
I posted this topic about 3 months ago....Are any curious to see if they changed their point of view from losing some more weight.
Here's what I said back then, and I haven't changed on this:When I look at someone who lost a lot of weight and hasn’t been fit for very long, I do try to look past that to where they were over the last few years. Would I have liked them fat? Would I like their personality if they didn't have the current six-pack? So many people work hard and lose weight only to regain it again. So I don’t just judge by where they are now. I look at the long-term pattern and whether they’re really addressed the contributing factors. I’ve always liked a stockier guy, but am not interested in dating one who will be comatose in 10 years when the thrill of losing weight has worn off.OTOH, there are quite a few guys I’d go out with now that I wouldn’t have considered 200lbs ago. Is that hypocritical? Maybe it is…but that’s how I feel. .
Of course, I also said my “normal adult weight” has always been about 10-15 pounds of where I graduated from college... but then I gained 15 lbs over vacation and so far have only lost 5 of it (a month later, ugh!!) Guess I'll need to change that story hahaha
This really plays into the whoe "what attracts you" thing. It seems to me that men are more visually oriented, thus more likely to judge a woman's value on her appearance vs women who appear to be more personality oriented, thus more likely to examine the personality (so if a guy has a "fit personality" they can overlook some extra weight).0 -
*humps post*
finally finally!
*humphumphump*0 -
*humps post*
finally finally!
*humphumphump*
:laugh: :laugh:0 -
I have been trying to understand why it is that men seem less attracted to me now than when I was at my heaviest. I don't get the looks and attention that I used to. Of course, I was not unattached before so the 'unavailability' maybe played a factor.
Any insight, men?
Why don't I get the attention that I got when I was 300+ lbs?0 -
Absolutely! MarriageBilders 101 puts “attractive spouse” as one of the top 5 emotional needs most men (and many women) have. This does not mean that their spouse is a perfect 10 barbie/ken doll all of her days, but that each puts care and effort into his/her appearance and health. Not because s/he’s worried about the spouse leaving or no longer loving him/her but because it’s something that pleases both us and the spouse. And when we love someone we want to do something that pleases them.I think it is also shows poor dedication to your partner if you give up on physically caring for yourself after you have cemented a relationship with marriage. I see it as no different than ceasing to pay attention to them, surprise them with romantic gestures, and basically just work to keep things alive.0 -
I had a guy friend ask me out after I lost weight. Before that we had known each other for four years. I'm sure he liked me after I lost weight. My friend was like "why now after four years?" We both didn't want to say it but we knew...0
