Lifting Paradigms
ArroganceInStep
Posts: 6,239 Member
Not talking about programming, and not talking about the obvious stuff like 'train hard' or 'be consistent', but what paradigms do you subscribe to for maximum results?
Supersetting push/pull, or supersetting in generall?
Strip Sets?
Back Off Sets?
Overwarmup?
Limiting rest between sets or maximizing it?
Equipment for training?
High/Moderate/Low Volume, High/Moderate/Low Frequency, High/Moderate/Low Intensity Sessions? How many of each?
What rep ranges do you find work best for you for strength, endurance, and hypertrophy (range for each indivually, not all three)?
How often do you like to train ideally? When?
How much sleep do you like to get for training? How much do you get?
What diet/supplement changes have helped you most (real or imagined) with lifting?
What other stuff do you find most important to you when it comes to lifting?
Supersetting push/pull, or supersetting in generall?
Strip Sets?
Back Off Sets?
Overwarmup?
Limiting rest between sets or maximizing it?
Equipment for training?
High/Moderate/Low Volume, High/Moderate/Low Frequency, High/Moderate/Low Intensity Sessions? How many of each?
What rep ranges do you find work best for you for strength, endurance, and hypertrophy (range for each indivually, not all three)?
How often do you like to train ideally? When?
How much sleep do you like to get for training? How much do you get?
What diet/supplement changes have helped you most (real or imagined) with lifting?
What other stuff do you find most important to you when it comes to lifting?
0
Replies
-
A novice like myself probably isn't who you are looking for input from, but I'll give it anyways (it's the interweb, so my opinion matters as much as anyones, right?)...
First and foremost, I think the big compound lifts should be the core of the workout for 95% of people. After that... The only thing I subscribe to in principle is periodization. Push/pulls, supersets, etc... I think that's more a factor of personal preference, and to some degree goals. Periodization is something everyone should be doing (IMO). I will say that a few of those you listed I'm not familiar with, so as always... take my comments with a grain of salt.
For me, I'm still fine tuning things, and it's largely dependent on whether I'm bulking or cutting. Bulking, 4 days a week... 2 volume days, 2 weight days. Cutting, 2-3x week... 0-1 volume day depending on how I'm feeling. Like I said, still fine tuning here.
I sleep as much as I can, but I've never been a good sleeper. 6hrs a night is REALLY good for me.
Diet/supplement changes... I dunno... getting better about my calorie intakes is probably the biggest thing, but I'm not sure I see any real gains based on specific additions (protein, creatine, pre-work supps, etc).
Just my 2 cents... curious to follow along though.
.0 -
I do supersets (double and triple)
goal, strength, fat loss and time constraints.
I go from sets of 8s down to a 2-3 depending on schedule
I lift heavy 2 times a week, have one light workout and maybe another light. Cardio after each workout.
I need to sleep more.0 -
A lot of questions in there, let's see if I can cover most of them:
-I believe that squatting, deadlifting (or otherwise hinging at the hip joint), horizontal and vertical pressing, and horizontal and vertical pulling should be the basis of your program for just about everyone. The goal for 99% of lifters should be adding weight to these movements.
-As far as rep ranges, I think you should work across multiple rep ranges. So a large muscle group like quads should get heavy, medium, and light work within the course of a week.
-As far as volume/intensity, it definetely must be varied, unless you're a newb. I'm personally a fan of going heavy for 1-2 lifts per session, and everything else is "assistance work" done at higher reps. There are obviously many ways that volume/intensity can be varied, heavy/medium/light days within a week, or heavy/medium/light weeks, and I don't think one way is necessarily superior to the other.
-I train 4x a week on an upper/lower split. My routine is based on Lyle's generic bulking routine, with a good deal of modifications that I've added along the way.
-I would love to get 8 hours of sleep every night and train in the late afternoon. But since that can't happen, I wake up at 4:45 am, throw down some fruit, a protein shake, and some coffee and hit the gym. As a consequence, I only get around 6.5 hours of sleep when I lift the next day. It's not ideal, but I evenings won't work. I do plan to back off to 3x a week at some point.
-I don't think any supplements have helped. Hell, the only reason I take creatine is because it's dirt cheap and it might help a little.0 -
A novice like myself probably isn't who you are looking for input from, but I'll give it anyways (it's the interweb, so my opinion matters as much as anyones, right?)...
Don't really care about level of experience, more interested in how people are actually applying various principles in their own workouts.
I was fairly athletic in high school and college. I had strength coaching from the sports I was in, and always just listened to what they said without thinking too much about it. When I got back into trying to get into shape after college, I just did some research, picked a program, and went with it. I never really customized anything to meet my own needs, I just found whatever program I thought would work best and followed it to the letter.
I still consider myself a beginner, but I'm getting more experience in the area and am learning what does and doesn't work for me (this has only really been in the last few months). My ultimate goal from is to get to where I can develop my own routines to nerd out over (well that and to total 18,000,000 kgs in the big-3). I'm hoping to start discussion to that end.
I'm working on responding with my own paradigms, but would love to hear more comments from folks on the matter.0 -
My ultimate goal from is to get to where I can develop my own routines to nerd out over
When you step back and look at them, the popular, proven programs are only marginally different.
1st of a 6 part series: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/categories-of-weight-training-part-1.html0 -
My ultimate goal from is to get to where I can develop my own routines to nerd out over (well that and to total 18,000,000 kgs in the big-3). I'm hoping to start discussion to that end.
Isn't that where the personal preference and specific goals come in? Generally speaking, the core of all major workouts are pretty similar. The differences come in the finer details, which, IMO should be dictated by your preferences and your goals.
Big compound lifts? Yes, virtually everyone should be doing them.
Periodization? Yes, virtually everyone should be doing it.
The rest varies person to person.
Push/pulls (or any of the typical splits)? Depends on your training volume, recovery time, and what "feels good".
Supersetting? Depends on goals and where you are at.
Resting between sets? Depends...
Rep ranges? Depends...
I don't think there are hard and fast rules for most of these. From all the reading I've done, compound lifts and periodization seem to be the only things that everyone agrees on for 95% of us. Everything else is a finer detail that needs to be matched up with the person based on their goals and preferences.
At least that's what I've taken away from everything I've read.0 -
I've found that eating adequate carbs is really a factor my strength. I can really tell when I don't eat enough. Also, I think that a rest day in between a really heavy session is essential0
-
Completely agreed Jack and Rock, that's why I'm asking a bit more about the specifics other people have found work best for them.
I'm not trying to ask you guys what works best for me in that regard, but rather what works best for you personally.0 -
Generally my main lift is to get as strong as possible, then my accessory movements are tweaked toward my short term goals while my diet dictates my physique.0
-
I'm not trying to ask you guys what works best for me in that regard, but rather what works best for you personally.
Gotcha. OK, for me, trying to add a little muscle, be a little stronger, and look a little better...
When I'm bulking:
Monday: full body, heavy lifting
Wednesday: pushes, volume lifting
Thursday: pulls, volume
Saturday: full body, heavy
This works really well for me.
When cutting (still tweaking this a bit, but...):
Monday, full body, heavy
Wednesday, accessory work, moderate weight/volume
Friday: full body, heavy
Seems to be working, but it's still early with this routine, so...
.0 -
Ah hell...I wrote WAY too much. Pre-emptive TL;DR -> I like lifting and overthink the crap out of it.
As with Rock, I think hitting your full body is tremendously important, and I look at it with a Push/Pull/Legs kind of break down. I'm gravitating towards powerlifting competitions the way I gravitate towards cheesecake, so splitting it into 3 movements only makes sense. In an ideal world I'd train:
-Full body 3x/week Afternoon Legs, Push, then Pull: high volume (more sets, fewer reps for big moves, the reverse for accessory), high intensity (about 2-3 hours)
-Steady State Cardio 3x/week Morning Swimming: light intensity, long duration (1-2 hours)
-BW and/or DB Work 1-2x/day Morning and Evening: light volume, light intensity (15-30 minutes)
I don't have the time for that kind of schedule and I'd need to sleep a LOT more than I do now (I get between 4 and 6.5 hours a night during the week, 7-8 on the weekend), but I know I respond very well to high frequency training.
Right now I lift 4 times a week in the morning (1.5 hours) or at lunch (1 hour) and do a little calisthenics on the weekend. Ideal given my circumstances would be lifting full body super high intensity, low volume 3 times a week (1 hour), HIIT cardio twice a week (1 hour), steady state cardio once a week (1 hour), and light calisthenics daily (15-30 minutes).
I think push/pull supersets are awesome, but specifically for accessory movements. I've tried it with big lifts and one just ends up sucking. I don't like supersetting more than two exercises unless I'm doing calisthenics.
I think I'm sold on overwarmups/backoff sets. For me it just makes the working sets easier. After a few singles at 405, sets of 5-10 at 315-365 isn't too bad at all. It's entirely possible that it's mental.
I'm also a fan of high volume sets following a working set, especially for legs. I think it's in the same vein as backoff sets, but running inclines after bench or widowmakes after squats is solid. The only caveat is with deadlift. I have a weak lower back so I usually like to do an exercise where I'm sitting down after pulling, it can still be high volume though.
I think ideal stretching is 5-10 minutes of light rowing (upper body day) or cycling (lower body day) before the workout, foam rolling the major muscles used and any problem areas immediately after the workout, and the steam room after that because...well...because it feels awesome.
I think the best cardio in the world is swimming. I hate running with a passion but can swim for hours non-stop. I really need to get one of those aquatic mp3 players and I'd live at my pool.
I have tremendous issues with food (specifically, the delicious foods that are heavy in carbs like sweets, pasta, RICE, and potatoes). I need to be fairly strict because if I don't I just end up cheating and falling off my diet. I have the best fat loss results with a high protein, moderate fat, low carb diet. I don't really have much in the way of energy issues on low carb. Obviously the ultimate goal is to condition myself to where I don't need to be so strict to see progress, it's a work in progress. Creatine has been a tremendous help for me with lifting. While I'm sure a lot of it is mental, I'm willing to pay for that placebo.
I'm on the fence about rest times between sets, but am leaning towards limiting it. I get that it helps with maximal exertion in each set to up the magnitude of tension, but to me the counter 'then get in shape, fatty' just kind of trumps that. Still deciding though.
I hate equipment for training (outside of chalk), but think I'm going to break down and get knee and elbow wraps/sleeves and a belt for my heaviest sets (I already have straps for shrugs, and will probably only ever use them for shrugs). The belt I think I actually need for my heavy stuff, but I'm going to try to limit the wraps to just keeping stuff warm as much as possible.
Singles are best for me to work on form, lots and lots of singles. For work I like triples best, then sets of 5, then 10, then 20, then 100. I'm kind of OCD so I sort of fixate on numbers that I find 'right', and those are it (which always screws me going for superhigh reps, because I'm exhausted at 26 and still try to go for 100). 3 and 5 for power, 10 (upper body) and 20 (lower body) for hypertrophy, 100 for 'F*** you I own this weight'.
I used to like strip sets, I don't like them as much for solo training anymore (true strip sets mind you, not back off or planned deloading). When I'm training with a partner though, nothing beats em. I'm naturally competitive already, and pushing in strip sets is perfect for that.
I've decided that figuring out percentages is the best thing you can do. I put together a spreadsheet that can calculate 5/3/1 and L-R-B programmed percentages just by putting in your target 1RM, and it's perfect for me. I always try to beat the number listed, and ultimately I'm going to get to the point where I'm just doing 'to the nearest quarter or wheel up from the weight listed'. However, just thinking in terms of "x% of goal weight" was a huge boost. In fact, looking at training in terms of distinct, short term goals over 'add more weight if you made it last time' was a huge change for the better (the cocky pri*k inside me thinks that's because I'm moving from beginner to intermediate lifter, but realistically it's just that it keeps my ADD from screwing up the program).
I'm an attention *kitten*. I like people (read: hot chicks) watching me and all that stupid childish crap. My best results will always come from lifting in a commercial gym that isn't geared towards power lifting. Ultimately it would be nice to get to the point where I'm working out multiple times a day, at the home gym to build musculature and put the work in, and then at the commercial gym to show off the hard work. That's a long way off as the house I have now has no garage, so no home gym, but the next one that'll be my first project. What can I say? I'm vain like that.0 -
Honestly, I'm the type that likes to hedge my bets so I do a bit of everything. I'll do supersets in some workouts and not in others. Some workouts I do High Weight-Low Rep Sets (sometimes 5x5's) other times I'll feel like a rest is in order and I'll do Low Weight-High Rep sets. I do drop sets in some workouts, pyramids in others and straight up 80% 1RM sets in others. The way I look at it is each has its own claimed benefits and drawbacks. Mixing it up not only keeps me a little more fresh and engaged, it seems to keep my muscles feeling better and avoiding adaptation to some degree.0
-
I've decided that figuring out percentages is the best thing you can do. I put together a spreadsheet that can calculate 5/3/1 and L-R-B programmed percentages just by putting in your target 1RM, and it's perfect for me. I always try to beat the number listed, and ultimately I'm going to get to the point where I'm just doing 'to the nearest quarter or wheel up from the weight listed'. However, just thinking in terms of "x% of goal weight" was a huge boost. In fact, looking at training in terms of distinct, short term goals over 'add more weight if you made it last time' was a huge change for the better (the cocky pri*k inside me thinks that's because I'm moving from beginner to intermediate lifter, but realistically it's just that it keeps my ADD from screwing up the program).0
-
I forgot to mention, I do the big lifts RPT style.I'm an attention *kitten*. I like people (read: hot chicks) watching me and all that stupid childish crap. My best results will always come from lifting in a commercial gym that isn't geared towards power lifting. Ultimately it would be nice to get to the point where I'm working out multiple times a day, at the home gym to build musculature and put the work in, and then at the commercial gym to show off the hard work. That's a long way off as the house I have now has no garage, so no home gym, but the next one that'll be my first project. What can I say? I'm vain like that.
This made me LOL.0 -
That's interesting... I've been thinking a lot lately about how/when to increase weight. I've always looked at it more generically... like when I can increase reps from 5 to 8 it's time to increase, or from 15 to 20, or whatever. The ap I use calculates 1RM automatically, so I could easily do something like what you're talking about. Have to mull this over a bit.
Yup, when I have a goal in mind I always do better. Not for next workout, because then off-days can screw you over, but for the next 8-12 weeks.0 -
That's interesting... I've been thinking a lot lately about how/when to increase weight. I've always looked at it more generically... like when I can increase reps from 5 to 8 it's time to increase, or from 15 to 20, or whatever. The ap I use calculates 1RM automatically, so I could easily do something like what you're talking about. Have to mull this over a bit.
Yup, when I have a goal in mind I always do better. Not for next workout, because then off-days can screw you over, but for the next 8-12 weeks.0 -
Day 1 heavy bench + pull ups + lunges. 3-4 sets.
dumbell flat bench + dumbell rows + jumpovers (over bench)
dumbell incline or decline + chin ups + jump ups onto a high jump box
Cardio
Day 2. Heavy squat + military dumbells + jump rope for 1 min
Power cleans to overhead press. 2-4 sets
dead lifts + shoulder raises + abs
Cardio
Day 3 Light bench + narrow grip bench (tris) + planks
Push up alternating on a ball + barbell curls + weighted dips
Barbell flys + narrow grip curls + skull crushers
cardio
If day 4: light cardio0 -
Basically I do compound lifts, do some other things I find enjoyable or worthy of my time (i.e. assistance lifts in 5/3/1), and am willing to change things that I don't find useful, that I find possibly dangerous for myself, or I just know I'll hate doing all the time.0
-
I just know I'll hate doing all the time.
LUNGES
I could write twice as much as the rant above that noone read about just how much I hate that damn exercise.0 -
comments on my routine? Bad? Good?0
-
Day 1 heavy bench + pull ups + lunges. 3-4 sets.
dumbell flat bench + dumbell rows + jumpovers (over bench)
dumbell incline or decline + chin ups + jump ups onto a high jump box
Cardio
Day 2. Heavy squat + military dumbells + jump rope for 1 min
Power cleans to overhead press. 2-4 sets
dead lifts + shoulder raises + abs
Cardio
Day 3 Light bench + narrow grip bench (tris) + planks
Push up alternating on a ball + barbell curls + weighted dips
Barbell flys + narrow grip curls + skull crushers
cardio
If day 4: light cardio
In response to your request for comments (though the goal was to find what people are doing, so if this works for you STICK WITH IT):
Your day 2 appears to be exponentially harder than days 1 and 3. Some people can handle squatting and pulling on the same day. But I can't fathom it without eating craptons of food and sleeping for a week after.
For day three, try triple grip benching (I like paul's suggestion of of doing light benching on an incline, but that's up to you). I don't have youtube at work but iirc it's the third vid http://www.lift-run-bang.com/2012/10/training-incline-hell.html
Also you're doing weighted dips, but no weighted chins? I'd move chinups from day 3 to day 1, and superset those with waited dips (I'd probably do them before the benching too, if only because I think weighted dips and chins are badass)
Other than that looks good man. With all my nerding out over specifics, at the end of the day: work hard, get better.0 -
Thanks.
I do pull up on bench day and so sets of 8-10. I've been considering moving to weighted pull ups in order to get ready to try a muscle up.
Maybe doing weighed chin ups would be better since the grip engages more biceps. I could certainly do more weight with a chip up vs a pull up!
Interesting incline move. Although I try not to go hard on the incline. The angle at my gym is way steep and tends to stress my shoulders. I can give it a shot if I pu some plates under the incline to decrease the angle and go light.0 -
I subscribe to progressive resistance or overload most of all. However variation is a close second for me. I like to be relatively well rounded and if I concentrate on just moving more weight every time I won't be as well rounded as before. However sometimes progressive overload is not just about weight sometimes it is about volume, or intensity, work done with in a specific time frame. It depends on if I am working strength, conditioning, ROM, mind muscle connection, or Time Under Tension.
They key is what ever the goal you are working toward do better each time and when you stall deload a bit, decondition slightly in that area, take a step back then start progressing again. That or change the goal and work on a different facet of your fitness.0 -
Interesting comment. How long do you guys take breaks for (assuming you take them at all)?0
-
I subscribe to progressive resistance or overload most of all. However variation is a close second for me. I like to be relatively well rounded and if I concentrate on just moving more weight every time I won't be as well rounded as before. However sometimes progressive overload is not just about weight sometimes it is about volume, or intensity, work done with in a specific time frame. It depends on if I am working strength, conditioning, ROM, mind muscle connection, or Time Under Tension.
They key is what ever the goal you are working toward do better each time and when you stall deload a bit, decondition slightly in that area, take a step back then start progressing again. That or change the goal and work on a different facet of your fitness.
What he said.0