THE CHRISTIAN AMERICAN VOTE
pj12string
Posts: 128 Member
THE CHRISTIAN AMERICAN VOTE
While I understand that churches should not endorse any candidate nor sponsor their campaigns, the Christian American should always be involved in politics and vote according to their convictions. Is this a biblically accurate statement and can your soul be at risk when ignoring our civic duties? Lets examine.
Some of the current issues being debated, legalized or even financed with our tax dollars are fundamentally against Christian values e.g. abortion (murder), idolatry, divorce, pornography, homosexuality, and providing contraceptives for teen sex, along with ‘education’ that justifies some of these. Clearly these issues are the works of sin, as the bible tells us that the works of the flesh are EVIDENT. (see Ephesians 5:19) Yet many are deceived and, feigning ignorance, support these issues.
Ephesians 5: 6-14, “Let NO ONE deceive you with EMPTY WORDS, for because of these things the WRATH of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore, DO NOT become partners with them, for at one time you were in darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and TRY to discern what is PLEASING to the Lord. Take NO PART in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead EXPOSE THEM. For IT IS SHAMEFUL even to speak of the things that they do in secret.
Clearly, right from the start, this passage exhorts us to be careful not to be deceived. It advises that when we are deceived or in danger of being deceived, then our souls are at risk. The next line exhorts us not to become partners with them. Are we? By paying taxes, you and I have funded many of these sinful issues and that makes us all either willing or unwilling partners with them. God clearly tells us not to become partners with them and to TRY to discern what is pleasing to him. Is he pleased when we are willingly partners with those who support these issues? No, He is not. This is clear from the next line which exhorts that we are to EXPOSE them. If we are willingly supporting such doctrines, then we are in partnership with them and we are giving them our approval. How shameful is this? It’s so shameful that it is even shameful to speak of these things.
Clearly we are to speak up and expos these evils. As a matter of fact, it is our duty to speak against these things. The bible sites numerous examples* of faithful servants speaking out against government officials who encourage moral evils, one example is found in the book of Acts when Paul is speaking to the Governor Festus:
Acts 24:25, “And as Paul reasoned about righteousness and self-control and the coming judgment, Felix was alarmed and said, ‘Go away for the present. When I get an opportunity I will summon you.’
Furthermore, in addition to God commanding us to walk as children of the light and expose evils, we must be aware that by not speaking up we are, endangering our souls and that of our children. Many current government policies have major impact on the family and, as Christians; we are called to bring up our children in the “discipline and instruction of the Lord.’ Our children are exposed to sinful governmental policies via television, internet, news publications and more.
Paul has exercised his rights as a Roman citizen to speak against evil and to further the Gospel, surely we can use our rights as Americans to vote accordingly to protect ourselves and our families from harm; while also protecting our freedom to preach and practice the truth.
Some will site the verse 1Timothy 2:1,2, and say that we should “just pray” for our leaders and leave the decision up to God. However, God also tells us that we are to pray for our daily bread. Does that mean we should sit home praying for food and wait for God to deliver it or, in addition to prayer, get a job and see our prayer fulfilled through our effort? In addition, 3John 2 speaks of prayers for good health. Does this mean we should pray for health without ever going to a doctor? No, we all know that going to a doctor is how God may answer our prayer. Since the outcome of political elections is not made known to us through the scriptures ahead of time, how are we to know God’s will in the matter? We can’t, all we can do is exercise our rights as American citizens, much like Paul exercising his rights as a Roman citizen, to vote for that which is most righteous. The outcome belongs to the Lord.
Do your own research, get your Christian voting guides here:
http://www.christianvoterguide.com/national-voter-guides
Bible Verses:
Ephesians 5: 29-21, “Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21envy,d drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Ephesians 6:4, “Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.”
1Timothy 2:1,2, “1First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.”
3John 1:2, “2Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul.”
While I understand that churches should not endorse any candidate nor sponsor their campaigns, the Christian American should always be involved in politics and vote according to their convictions. Is this a biblically accurate statement and can your soul be at risk when ignoring our civic duties? Lets examine.
Some of the current issues being debated, legalized or even financed with our tax dollars are fundamentally against Christian values e.g. abortion (murder), idolatry, divorce, pornography, homosexuality, and providing contraceptives for teen sex, along with ‘education’ that justifies some of these. Clearly these issues are the works of sin, as the bible tells us that the works of the flesh are EVIDENT. (see Ephesians 5:19) Yet many are deceived and, feigning ignorance, support these issues.
Ephesians 5: 6-14, “Let NO ONE deceive you with EMPTY WORDS, for because of these things the WRATH of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore, DO NOT become partners with them, for at one time you were in darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and TRY to discern what is PLEASING to the Lord. Take NO PART in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead EXPOSE THEM. For IT IS SHAMEFUL even to speak of the things that they do in secret.
Clearly, right from the start, this passage exhorts us to be careful not to be deceived. It advises that when we are deceived or in danger of being deceived, then our souls are at risk. The next line exhorts us not to become partners with them. Are we? By paying taxes, you and I have funded many of these sinful issues and that makes us all either willing or unwilling partners with them. God clearly tells us not to become partners with them and to TRY to discern what is pleasing to him. Is he pleased when we are willingly partners with those who support these issues? No, He is not. This is clear from the next line which exhorts that we are to EXPOSE them. If we are willingly supporting such doctrines, then we are in partnership with them and we are giving them our approval. How shameful is this? It’s so shameful that it is even shameful to speak of these things.
Clearly we are to speak up and expos these evils. As a matter of fact, it is our duty to speak against these things. The bible sites numerous examples* of faithful servants speaking out against government officials who encourage moral evils, one example is found in the book of Acts when Paul is speaking to the Governor Festus:
Acts 24:25, “And as Paul reasoned about righteousness and self-control and the coming judgment, Felix was alarmed and said, ‘Go away for the present. When I get an opportunity I will summon you.’
Furthermore, in addition to God commanding us to walk as children of the light and expose evils, we must be aware that by not speaking up we are, endangering our souls and that of our children. Many current government policies have major impact on the family and, as Christians; we are called to bring up our children in the “discipline and instruction of the Lord.’ Our children are exposed to sinful governmental policies via television, internet, news publications and more.
Paul has exercised his rights as a Roman citizen to speak against evil and to further the Gospel, surely we can use our rights as Americans to vote accordingly to protect ourselves and our families from harm; while also protecting our freedom to preach and practice the truth.
Some will site the verse 1Timothy 2:1,2, and say that we should “just pray” for our leaders and leave the decision up to God. However, God also tells us that we are to pray for our daily bread. Does that mean we should sit home praying for food and wait for God to deliver it or, in addition to prayer, get a job and see our prayer fulfilled through our effort? In addition, 3John 2 speaks of prayers for good health. Does this mean we should pray for health without ever going to a doctor? No, we all know that going to a doctor is how God may answer our prayer. Since the outcome of political elections is not made known to us through the scriptures ahead of time, how are we to know God’s will in the matter? We can’t, all we can do is exercise our rights as American citizens, much like Paul exercising his rights as a Roman citizen, to vote for that which is most righteous. The outcome belongs to the Lord.
Do your own research, get your Christian voting guides here:
http://www.christianvoterguide.com/national-voter-guides
Bible Verses:
Ephesians 5: 29-21, “Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21envy,d drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Ephesians 6:4, “Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.”
1Timothy 2:1,2, “1First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.”
3John 1:2, “2Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul.”
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Replies
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THANK YOU.... THANK YOU.... THANK YOU. This is an excellent post, and an excellent reminder why we need to pray AND vote in this upcoming election... and at every election. We are not to just sit back and watch God being forced out.
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The thing for me is: I am a Christian and therefore I do not believe in homosexuality or abortion etc.. However, my personal opinions are irrelevant as we do not live in a theocracy. Nor do I have any desire to live in a theocracy even if its my religion in charge. So the first question I ask about gay mariage is: Should the Government be able to dictate who you marry? My answer is no. I do not want the Government involved in my personal matters and therefore it would be hypocritical to want them involved in others personal matters. I cant say that I want less Government control of the people, unless its things I dont like. The Government has no place what-so-ever in mariage whether it be gay mariage or hetero mariage. As far as abortion, it should be a states issue and not a federal one.0
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The thing for me is: I am a Christian and therefore I do not believe in homosexuality or abortion etc.. However, my personal opinions are irrelevant as we do not live in a theocracy. Nor do I have any desire to live in a theocracy even if its my religion in charge. So the first question I ask about gay mariage is: Should the Government be able to dictate who you marry? My answer is no. I do not want the Government involved in my personal matters and therefore it would be hypocritical to want them involved in others personal matters. I cant say that I want less Government control of the people, unless its things I dont like. The Government has no place what-so-ever in mariage whether it be gay mariage or hetero mariage. As far as abortion, it should be a states issue and not a federal one.
Homosexuality and abortion (murder) are both sins. But so is lying, stealing and adultery etc. How would the United States look if the Federal Gov't took a stand to legalize perjury, larceny and multiple spouses? Would you support the Govt's attempt to legalize, marginalize and normalize everything God finds to be offensive? If God has stated that a thing is wrong, then it is wrong. And only when we acknowledge that we have done something wrong can we be brought to repentance and baptized for the forgiveness of our sins.
If we create a culture whereby sins are presented as moral, legal or normal then one will begin to think that no repentance is necessary in order to be right with God, and hence, the souls of everyone become at risk. We are already seeing the effects of this today in many "Christian" churches where repentance is not a necessity.0 -
The thing for me is: I am a Christian and therefore I do not believe in homosexuality or abortion etc.. However, my personal opinions are irrelevant as we do not live in a theocracy. Nor do I have any desire to live in a theocracy even if its my religion in charge. So the first question I ask about gay mariage is: Should the Government be able to dictate who you marry? My answer is no. I do not want the Government involved in my personal matters and therefore it would be hypocritical to want them involved in others personal matters. I cant say that I want less Government control of the people, unless its things I dont like. The Government has no place what-so-ever in mariage whether it be gay mariage or hetero mariage. As far as abortion, it should be a states issue and not a federal one.
I may not want the government in every aspect of my life, either. But... as a Christian, I am called to stand up for my beliefs. You're right. We live in a democracy. We have the right to vote. Therefore, we are supposed to use that right to stand up for our beliefs. That is exactly what I plan on doing. Until my last breath.0 -
Your vote should be based on the Constitution of the United Stated, not on your personal religion. I would never consider abortion as I believe it to be wrong, but its a states issue and not a federal one. Im a hetero male and would never condone homosexuality, however the Government has no business being involved in marriage. I dont do drugs, but they should be legal and Im happily married and would never go get a prostitute but prostitution should be legal. These are things people need to choose for themselves. When people make choices out of fear rather than conviction it cheapens religion, it doesnt strengthen it. Look at some muslim countries where if you break their religious codes you are executed. Those that dont partake in certain acts simply because they fear the wrath of their religious leaders cheapen the act of living whats in your heart. I will always defend my right as well as everyone elses to practice whatever religion they choose but I will base my vote on whats Constitutional not on whats the Christian thing to do.0
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Your vote should be based on the Constitution of the United Stated, not on your personal religion. I would never consider abortion as I believe it to be wrong, but its a states issue and not a federal one. Im a hetero male and would never condone homosexuality, however the Government has no business being involved in marriage. I dont do drugs, but they should be legal and Im happily married and would never go get a prostitute but prostitution should be legal. These are things people need to choose for themselves. When people make choices out of fear rather than conviction it cheapens religion, it doesnt strengthen it. Look at some muslim countries where if you break their religious codes you are executed. Those that dont partake in certain acts simply because they fear the wrath of their religious leaders cheapen the act of living whats in your heart. I will always defend my right as well as everyone elses to practice whatever religion they choose but I will base my vote on whats Constitutional not on whats the Christian thing to do.
And that is perfectly your right. I am Constitutional. But... even the Constitution allows us our beliefs (the freedom of those beliefs). My belief (out of conviction... and not fear) is that I should stand up for my Christian values. That is what I will continue to do. Just as you stand up for what you believe. That's the joy of living in this free country. I just pray it stays free.0 -
Your vote should be based on the Constitution of the United Stated, not on your personal religion. I would never consider abortion as I believe it to be wrong, but its a states issue and not a federal one. Im a hetero male and would never condone homosexuality, however the Government has no business being involved in marriage. I dont do drugs, but they should be legal and Im happily married and would never go get a prostitute but prostitution should be legal. These are things people need to choose for themselves. When people make choices out of fear rather than conviction it cheapens religion, it doesnt strengthen it. Look at some muslim countries where if you break their religious codes you are executed. Those that dont partake in certain acts simply because they fear the wrath of their religious leaders cheapen the act of living whats in your heart. I will always defend my right as well as everyone elses to practice whatever religion they choose but I will base my vote on whats Constitutional not on whats the Christian thing to do.
And that is perfectly your right. I am Constitutional. But... even the Constitution allows us our beliefs (the freedom of those beliefs). My belief (out of conviction... and not fear) is that I should stand up for my Christian values. That is what I will continue to do. Just as you stand up for what you believe. That's the joy of living in this free country. I just pray it stays free.
Yes but you kind of missed my point. You live by your convictions. There are things you do or dont do because in your heart you know its wrong. So if someone else lives the same way you do, only they do it out of fear of persecution, doesnt that cheapen the way you live? I think it does. You are making choices out of conviction they are making choices out of fear yet you both are looked at the same because all anyone else knows is you live the same way.0 -
I guess for me the bottom line is I am a Conservative guy. The basis of Conservatism is less Government involvement in peoples lives. So a person can not in one breath tell me they are Conservative and then in the next breath tell me all the things they want to ban. So anyone that thinks the Government should tell people who they can or cant marry, should not be upset when the same Government tells them what they can or cant eat. You either want the Government involved in your life or you dont, you cant have it both ways.0
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Your vote should be based on the Constitution of the United Stated, not on your personal religion. I would never consider abortion as I believe it to be wrong, but its a states issue and not a federal one. Im a hetero male and would never condone homosexuality, however the Government has no business being involved in marriage. I dont do drugs, but they should be legal and Im happily married and would never go get a prostitute but prostitution should be legal. These are things people need to choose for themselves. When people make choices out of fear rather than conviction it cheapens religion, it doesnt strengthen it. Look at some muslim countries where if you break their religious codes you are executed. Those that dont partake in certain acts simply because they fear the wrath of their religious leaders cheapen the act of living whats in your heart. I will always defend my right as well as everyone elses to practice whatever religion they choose but I will base my vote on whats Constitutional not on whats the Christian thing to do.
And that is perfectly your right. I am Constitutional. But... even the Constitution allows us our beliefs (the freedom of those beliefs). My belief (out of conviction... and not fear) is that I should stand up for my Christian values. That is what I will continue to do. Just as you stand up for what you believe. That's the joy of living in this free country. I just pray it stays free.
Yes but you kind of missed my point. You live by your convictions. There are things you do or dont do because in your heart you know its wrong. So if someone else lives the same way you do, only they do it out of fear of persecution, doesnt that cheapen the way you live? I think it does. You are making choices out of conviction they are making choices out of fear yet you both are looked at the same because all anyone else knows is you live the same way.
No, I didn't miss your point. Yes, I want less government... but, as a Christian, I can't vote against my convictions. I don't want to vote against my convictions. I love God and I love this country. The excellency of this country, though, is our freedom. Everyone has a right to vote for their beliefs. Unfortunately, I don't think abortion will ever be overturned, and I believe same sex marriage will soon be legal everywhere. But... I'm still going to stand up against it and vote my convictions. People have the right to still choose. And, that will always be. That's the point of VOTING. These are my beliefs, though.0 -
Your vote should be based on the Constitution of the United Stated, not on your personal religion. I would never consider abortion as I believe it to be wrong, but its a states issue and not a federal one. Im a hetero male and would never condone homosexuality, however the Government has no business being involved in marriage. I dont do drugs, but they should be legal and Im happily married and would never go get a prostitute but prostitution should be legal. These are things people need to choose for themselves. When people make choices out of fear rather than conviction it cheapens religion, it doesnt strengthen it. Look at some muslim countries where if you break their religious codes you are executed. Those that dont partake in certain acts simply because they fear the wrath of their religious leaders cheapen the act of living whats in your heart. I will always defend my right as well as everyone elses to practice whatever religion they choose but I will base my vote on whats Constitutional not on whats the Christian thing to do.
And that is perfectly your right. I am Constitutional. But... even the Constitution allows us our beliefs (the freedom of those beliefs). My belief (out of conviction... and not fear) is that I should stand up for my Christian values. That is what I will continue to do. Just as you stand up for what you believe. That's the joy of living in this free country. I just pray it stays free.
Yes but you kind of missed my point. You live by your convictions. There are things you do or dont do because in your heart you know its wrong. So if someone else lives the same way you do, only they do it out of fear of persecution, doesnt that cheapen the way you live? I think it does. You are making choices out of conviction they are making choices out of fear yet you both are looked at the same because all anyone else knows is you live the same way.
No, I didn't miss your point. Yes, I want less government... but, as a Christian, I can't vote against my convictions. I don't want to vote against my convictions. I love God and I love this country. The excellency of this country, though, is our freedom. Everyone has a right to vote for their beliefs. Unfortunately, I don't think abortion will ever be overturned, and I believe same sex marriage will soon be legal everywhere. But... I'm still going to stand up against it and vote my convictions. People have the right to still choose. And, that will always be. That's the point of VOTING. These are my beliefs, though.
We have to vote for our convictions. The Gov't whether federal, state or local level represents each of us, which is what a republic is. Therefore, I want my convictions represented in my Gov't as much as the the godless wants the Gov't to be godless.
The bottom line is that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. I've become wise not through my own experiences, but the wisdom that I gained from God's word. God's word has indicated at many various points that If we allow for a Godless society, which normalizes and approves of sinful behavior, we WILL be punished.
So I will fight the good fight and preach the Gospel while we are still in a time of repentance.0 -
We have to vote for our convictions. The Gov't whether federal, state or local level represents each of us, which is what a republic is. Therefore, I want my convictions represented in my Gov't as much as the the godless wants the Gov't to be godless.
The bottom line is that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. I've become wise not through my own experiences, but the wisdom that I gained from God's word. God's word has indicated at many various points that If we allow for a Godless society, which normalizes and approves of sinful behavior, we WILL be punished.
So I will fight the good fight and preach the Gospel while we are still in a time of repentance.
Thank you for this. Great statement.0 -
We have to vote for our convictions. The Gov't whether federal, state or local level represents each of us, which is what a republic is. Therefore, I want my convictions represented in my Gov't as much as the the godless wants the Gov't to be godless.
The bottom line is that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. I've become wise not through my own experiences, but the wisdom that I gained from God's word. God's word has indicated at many various points that If we allow for a Godless society, which normalizes and approves of sinful behavior, we WILL be punished.
So I will fight the good fight and preach the Gospel while we are still in a time of repentance.
Thank you for this. Great statement.
Praise God sister.0 -
I'm a republican only in that I do not believe in supporing people who refuse to support or try to support themselves. I agree with abortion because I'd rather not have to feed another living soul. I agree with same sex marriages because it doesnt' concern me and I believe "god" made them that way. I believe in contraception b/c (again) I'd rather there NOT be anymore unwanted non-entities/cockroaches sucking up government resources. We are quickly becoming socialized, and peole AGREE with it. People really give up their freedom for "safety". They have already allowed so much to happen, and now there is no going back. I'm an athiest, but am SO SICK AND TIRED of supporting everyone! I have 3 damn jobs and am taxed so heavily!! I'm taxed so these freeloaders can sit on their *kitten* and do nothing while the rest of us work our entire lives (my projected retirement age is 72). Am not staying in the US...it's not the US i grew up in.0
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I have no problem with you being a Republican economically only. That is great. But, please respect the rest of us who DO care about the social issues as well. Children are more than "cockroaches". If you don't want to be responsible for another living soul, than all you would have to do is look into adoption.
I will leave it at that, as I am highly pro-life... and it has taken me this long to be able to respond without saying anymore.0 -
I was actually referring to the people who mooch off the government. Yes, I cannot stand for someone to sit around waiting for something (money) to be given to them. I hate the idea that someone would continue to have kids for the sole purpose of getting more money from the government. I've seen, and read reports about people who have too many kids they can't take care of. The abuse that these kids endure are never publicized, but I can tell you it's a difficult read. I have to ask, would they not have been better off not having been here in the first place. You could not imagine what happens to them. But to give you an idea (this happened around 1998), a father got so "annoyed" at his 3 mo old's crying, that he picked the kid up by the ankles and slammed the baby's head against the wall about 5x's. The baby lived for a few hours, but was unrecognizable as an infant.....that is where I'm coming from. And it happens more often than you think. I'd rather read that someone ended a pregnancy than read reports about that level of abuse.0
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OH, ok. I had misread what you meant. Please forgive me.
I can't stand to hear of abuse. It breaks my heart. I fight against that as well... as someone who was physically, mentally, and sexually abused myself. But, I am still pro-life. I cannot stand people having kids for the sole purpose of seeing them as a paycheck. It makes me sick. And, it's making this economy worse and worse. But, I still, personally, could never condone ending a pregnancy in abortion.
With that said, I do see where you are coming from though. And, I understand your reasoning.0 -
I was actually referring to the people who mooch off the government. Yes, I cannot stand for someone to sit around waiting for something (money) to be given to them. I hate the idea that someone would continue to have kids for the sole purpose of getting more money from the government. I've seen, and read reports about people who have too many kids they can't take care of. The abuse that these kids endure are never publicized, but I can tell you it's a difficult read. I have to ask, would they not have been better off not having been here in the first place. You could not imagine what happens to them. But to give you an idea (this happened around 1998), a father got so "annoyed" at his 3 mo old's crying, that he picked the kid up by the ankles and slammed the baby's head against the wall about 5x's. The baby lived for a few hours, but was unrecognizable as an infant.....that is where I'm coming from. And it happens more often than you think. I'd rather read that someone ended a pregnancy than read reports about that level of abuse.
All I have to say is abortion is the most common form of child abuse.0 -
Bump (to read later).0
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I tend to agree with MDWILLIAM... Years ago I would have disagreed whole heartily but I have had a change of heart. While I agree that drugs, prostitution, homosexuality, abortion, etc. is wrong, I don't know if I think it is the Gov't place to legislate morality. With the exception of abortion, which I believe, is the killing of an innocent life and should not be legal, the protection of its citizens Constitutionally IS the role of Government. I think as Christians we have loss focus. It’s not about politics or Government, it’s about hearts. We will never see real change in this country or in this world till we change people’s hearts beginning with our own! We as a body of believers have failed this country. We are no different then the rest of the world. Our divorce rates have surpassed those of our secular friends, our viewing habits are not any different, pornography, adultery, we buy into the “American dream” pursuing money and the comforts of this world. Do you know that over 80% of children with Down syndrome are aborted? Are you going to tell me that doesn’t include Christian families?! We my friends live no differently then the rest of this world and then we want Gov’t to step in a legislate morality? We want Gov’t involved but only if it’s an issue we agree with? We can’t have it both ways. I am just so tired of the “us” vs “them.” I think the Casting Crowns song “ Jesus, friend of sinners” says it best.
Jesus Friend of sinners we have strayed so far away
We cut down people in your name but the sword was never ours to swing
Jesus friend of sinners the truth's become so hard to see
The world is on their way to You but they're tripping over me
Always looking around but never looking up I'm so double minded
A plank eyed saint with dirty hands and a heart divided
Oh Jesus friend of sinners
Open our eyes to the world at the end of our pointing fingers
Let our hearts be led by mercy
Help us reach with open hearts and open doors
Oh Jesus friend of sinners break our hearts for what breaks yours
Jesus friend of sinners the one who's writing in the sand
Make the righteous turn away and the stones fall from their hands
Help us to remember we are all the least of these
Let the memory of Your mercy bring your people to their knees
Nobody knows what we're for only what we're against when we
judge the wounded What if we put down our signs crossed over the lines and love like You did
Look, I too was hoping for a different outcome in the election but bottom line is that I don’t think God cares about American politics, He cares about our hearts. Don’t let politics just become another thing that takes us further away from the people we should be reaching out to. I think Screwtapes’ view on politics is quite fitting.
“Let him begin by treating his Patriotism or Pacifism as a part of his religion. Then let him, under the influence of a partisan spirit, come to regard it as the most important part. Then quietly and gradually nurse him on to the stage at which the religion becomes merely part of the "cause"... Once you have made the World an end, and faith a means, you have almost won your man, and it makes very little difference what kind of worldly end he is pursuing. Provided that meetings, pamphlets, policies, movements, causes, and crusades, matter more to him than prayers and sacraments and charity, he is ours — and the more "religious" (on those terms) the more securely ours. I could show you a pretty cageful down here.”
Sorry this is so long but I hope I gave you some food for thought.0 -
Thank you Kezfran, surely you provide us food for thought. And I agree with you in regards to Christians not being much different than what is in the world. So you have to ask yourself, are they Christians at all?
After all, what makes a Christian? Isn't it a person who has been born again of 'water and spirit'? So I would argue that just because someone has been baptized for the forgiveness of their sins, if they are not repentant and filled with the spirit, then their worship is in vain. Therefore they are only self-proclaimed christians, but that does not amount to anything because if Jesus does not see you as a Christian, then any thing you claim to be does not amount to anything. You are still in your sin and condemned.
But as for the discussion here, don't you see that the Government does legislate morality? For instance, it is criminal to lie under oath (perjury), it is criminal to lie on paperwork (forgery), it is criminal to take another's property (larceny), it is criminal to hurt another (assault), it is criminal to sexually abuse another (rape/sodomy), it is criminal to kill (murder) with an exception for murder. And as you know, lying, stealing, sexual immorality, and murder are all against God's commands. Can you think of any crimes that are enforced that do not have some kind of moral thread? I can't. Let me think, kidnapping, child endangerment, animal cruelty, vandalism, rioting, custodial interference....? I honestly think that the government's job seems to be to legislate morality, in an attempt to protect the morally just from the morally unjust. Right? Correct me if you think I'm wrong.0 -
Thank you Kezfran, surely you provide us food for thought. And I agree with you in regards to Christians not being much different than what is in the world. So you have to ask yourself, are they Christians at all?
After all, what makes a Christian? Isn't it a person who has been born again of 'water and spirit'? So I would argue that just because someone has been baptized for the forgiveness of their sins, if they are not repentant and filled with the spirit, then their worship is in vain. Therefore they are only self-proclaimed christians, but that does not amount to anything because if Jesus does not see you as a Christian, then any thing you claim to be does not amount to anything. You are still in your sin and condemned.
But as for the discussion here, don't you see that the Government does legislate morality? For instance, it is criminal to lie under oath (perjury), it is criminal to lie on paperwork (forgery), it is criminal to take another's property (larceny), it is criminal to hurt another (assault), it is criminal to sexually abuse another (rape/sodomy), it is criminal to kill (murder) with an exception for murder. And as you know, lying, stealing, sexual immorality, and murder are all against God's commands. Can you think of any crimes that are enforced that do not have some kind of moral thread? I can't. Let me think, kidnapping, child endangerment, animal cruelty, vandalism, rioting, custodial interference....? I honestly think that the government's job seems to be to legislate morality, in an attempt to protect the morally just from the morally unjust. Right? Correct me if you think I'm wrong.
But all of those things you just mentioned involve doing things to others. If i take drugs, that is my decision and doesnt harm you or take away from your liberties. Prostitution, gay mariage, same thing. Of course it is illegal to harm others or steal from others but that has less to do with morals and more to do with everyone having a right to live without being raped, stolen from, beaten, etc.. Gay mariage does no harm me or you. Someone doing drugs does not harm me or you. Two people exchanging money for sex does not harm me or you. Thats the difference.0 -
I guess it depends on what you see as harmful. Is it harmful for your family to witness something God has defined as immoral and be told that it is moral? And while I understand your point, the reality is that gay marriage was never a criminal act, it was simply not recognized as 'marriage' because marriage is defined as a man and a woman who become life-mates/partners. Common sense should be able to dictate to us that male parts and female parts go together as well as puzzle pieces that fit precisely. Of course, I could force 2 puzzle pieces together that do not fit precisely and claim that I competed the puzzle. But anyone looking at it would say, 'no, those two pieces don't fit together'. See what I mean? Just because people have a desire to engage another person of the same gender sexually, doesn't mean it can be defined as a marriage. Gay relations have been going on since the beginning of time but they have never been the same as a marriage. Why are we so arrogant in this generation that we think we have a right to redefine what is a natural phenomenon like marriage?
And drugs do hurt people. Would you feel safe if the airline pilot had just finished a hit of heroin? Do you want the police officer who pulls you over for speeding to be stoned? Is it ok if your child's teacher is strung out on methadone? Drugs have consequences on the lives of others. It is simply to naive an idea to say that laws should only exist where another person is explicitly harmed.
The bottom line is that when something is wrong then it is wrong. If we allow wrongs to permeate our society then who decides when something is wrong enough to be called illegal?
As for me and my house, we will follow the Lord.0
