Why do we believe the BAD but not the GOOD???
JanieJack
Posts: 3,831 Member
Posted this in another thread... why do you think we tend to accept the negative things people tell us about ourselves rather than the positive ones? Isn't it just as easy to believe the good stuff?
I was mortified today to be 30lbs heavier than the other two girls in our {tough mudder} team (I know this because we shared weights when trying to figure out who to carry). I was especially embarrassed when the two tough guys in our group really struggled to lift me over the berlin walls. Yet both of the guys continually hugged me and flirted with me. Several other guys there flirted with me too, which totally threw me off guard.
It made me wonder how come it's so easy to believe the negative things people tell us rather than the positive things people tell us. What I mean is, just as many people tell me I'm hot as tell me I'm fat. When a man tells me I'm too big (or what I often got from Match: I thought you'd be a lot smaller), I accept it as gospel truth. Yet when someone tells me I'm beautiful/great shape, I instantly think "Oh, they're just being nice" or, "Oh, he doesn't realize I'm doing the slimming 'model pose' for that picture," or "Oh, he's just trying to get in my pants." Why not just believe that I'm one of those non-barbie types that is also beautiful? Isn't it just as easy to believe one frame as it is to believe the other?
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I really don`t know why it would be difficult to believe me Janie.
It was a surprise that you were in the area to meet when I was in Dallas.
I was delighted to see the real you and have been honest in all respects regarding how attractive I found you.
Trying to bed you was not ever an issue and can`t imagine I did anything to suggest otherwise although as a guy the thought is quite pleasant.
Will you please begin to accept the word of a guy that has met you and has no reason to lie?0 -
It made me wonder how come it's so easy to believe the negative things people tell us rather than the positive things people tell us. What I mean is, just as many people tell me I'm hot as tell me I'm fat. When a man tells me I'm too big (or what I often got from Match: I thought you'd be a lot smaller), I accept it as gospel truth. Yet when someone tells me I'm beautiful/great shape, I instantly think "Oh, they're just being nice" or, "Oh, he doesn't realize I'm doing the slimming 'model pose' for that picture," or "Oh, he's just trying to get in my pants." Why not just believe that I'm one of those non-barbie types that is also beautiful? Isn't it just as easy to believe one frame as it is to believe the other?
I am the exact same way. You're not alone.0 -
Carl I absolutely accept your opinion.
The problem isn't that I have a hard time believing *you* think I'm beautiful. I don't have a hard time believing that *BB* thinks I'm beautiful.
What I have a hard time with, and I suspect many women on this board do as well, is accepting that your opinion is the average person's opinion. Because if the average guy thought we were as hot/beautiful/whatever as people often say on this forum... well... we probably wouldn't be single.
I realize that what I'm saying, in effect, is that the opinion of a few select people doesn't matter if it's not a majority opinion. That, in and of itself, is disrespectful to the friends who are offering us their opinion. It's as if we're saying, "yeah, you think I'm nice to look at but your opinion doesn't really count"
(It does!!!! Your opinion absolutely DOES matter to me!!! I'm just saying that when we discount opinions like that, we don't realize that we're effectively saying to the world that these peoples opinions don't count.)
Well, gee, if we're gonna selectively choose opinions to believe about ourselves, then we (myself included) should choose to believe the good ones. Even if we aren't perfect, we're still mostly awesome and we should carry ourselves like it.0 -
It could be any number of things. I really struggle with this... Maybe because it's easier to put ourselves down. I don't know why, but it is. Or maybe there were bad experiences. Maybe someone told us that what we were wasn't *attractive* enough. And for some reason, that hits us harder than hearing how nice we look or that we are beautiful. Bad things and experiences tend to stick more than good stuff that happens.
I think it's all about perspective... As we've learned from these boards and life experiences, different things are attractive to different people. It's easier for me to put myself down and discount what people tell me than to try and shine with self confidence. Why? Because I've always had really low self esteem and it feels safer to hide inside of self loathing. (I'm not saying that you have low self-esteem)0 -
Carl I absolutely accept your opinion.
The problem isn't that I have a hard time believing *you* think I'm beautiful. I don't have a hard time believing that *BB* thinks I'm beautiful.
What I have a hard time with, and I suspect many women on this board do as well, is accepting that your opinion is the average person's opinion. Because if the average guy thought we were as hot/beautiful/whatever as people often say on this forum... well... we probably wouldn't be single.
I realize that what I'm saying, in effect, is that the opinion of a few select people doesn't matter if it's not a majority opinion. That, in and of itself, is disrespectful to the friends who are offering us their opinion. It's as if we're saying, "yeah, you think I'm nice to look at but your opinion doesn't really count"
(It does!!!! Your opinion absolutely DOES matter to me!!! I'm just saying that when we discount opinions like that, we don't realize that we're effectively saying to the world that these peoples opinions don't count.)
Well, gee, if we're gonna selectively choose opinions to believe about ourselves, then we (myself included) should choose to believe the good ones. Even if we aren't perfect, we're still mostly awesome and we should carry ourselves like it.
That is a willful determination of your mind though...you and others choose to think this because it "fits" what you have predetermined about yourself(s).
Remember one thing,a guy can find a lady beautiful and not be interested in pursuing her for a variety of reasons.
Get past the either/or mindset that says "he didn`t make a play for me,that means he thinks I am fat/ugly etc".
Okay? :flowerforyou:0 -
What I have a hard time with, and I suspect many women on this board do as well, is accepting that your opinion is the average person's opinion. Because if the average guy thought we were as hot/beautiful/whatever as people often say on this forum... well... we probably wouldn't be single.
That is a willful determination of your mind though...you and others choose to think this because it "fits" what you have predetermined about yourself(s).
Remember one thing,a guy can find a lady beautiful and not be interested in pursuing her for a variety of reasons.
Get past the either/or mindset that says "he didn`t make a play for me,that means he thinks I am fat/ugly etc".
Okay? :flowerforyou:
I will try... just for you...
It's hard though... especially when I ask guy after guy about why he selected the woman he has and he might mention something about her personality, but the biggest smile comes across his face when he talks about her beauty/hotness.0 -
Its so true.
I tend to listen to the negative and ignore the praise.
It's conditioning for me I think. I was ignored for years I thought the weight loss would change that.. surprisingly I'm almost more invisible now. The funny thing is that "I" believe I'm a catch, but some how don't think "men" think I am....weird twisted effed up thinking I know. Probably why I'm sitting here single.0 -
I think it boils down to insecurity. Although I've never really had a problem with finding men who are attracted to me, I would still think that my issue with finding a meaningful relationship with someone is how I look just because of something my Dad said to me in high school. It's only been recently that I've started to realize that the issue isn't necessarily with me. I know it's hard to do it, but I really have to stop letting insecurities run my life -- more along the lines of "what is right with me?" as opposed to "what is wrong with me?"
Another nice side effect of healed insecurities is the ability to let ourselves be loved and to truly know how to love in return...0 -
What I have a hard time with, and I suspect many women on this board do as well, is accepting that your opinion is the average person's opinion. Because if the average guy thought we were as hot/beautiful/whatever as people often say on this forum... well... we probably wouldn't be single.
That is a willful determination of your mind though...you and others choose to think this because it "fits" what you have predetermined about yourself(s).
Remember one thing,a guy can find a lady beautiful and not be interested in pursuing her for a variety of reasons.
Get past the either/or mindset that says "he didn`t make a play for me,that means he thinks I am fat/ugly etc".
Okay? :flowerforyou:
I will try... just for you...
It's hard though... especially when I ask guy after guy about why he selected the woman he has and he might mention something about her personality, but the biggest smile comes across his face when he talks about her beauty/hotness.
But what is strange about that,of course he finds her beautiful and hot,why would he not no matter what someone else may think of her.0 -
What I have a hard time with, and I suspect many women on this board do as well, is accepting that your opinion is the average person's opinion. Because if the average guy thought we were as hot/beautiful/whatever as people often say on this forum... well... we probably wouldn't be single.
Humans are flawed and we all have our own individual insecurities and hang-ups. I find it upsetting that anyone here assumes that we are ALL single because of their personal set of insecurities. If you want to believe it about yourself, there's no point in arguing (Carl is obviously trying with much resistance) but please don't project your own issues onto everyone else here.
Also, when insecurities start taking over your every thought and block you from believing what your friends and loved ones say to you, it might be time to consider some professional help. I'm saying this with all sincerity and am not intending to be rude.0 -
Humans are flawed and we all have our own individual insecurities and hang-ups. I find it upsetting that anyone here assumes that we are ALL single because of their personal set of insecurities.
I actually think that most of us here are single BECAUSE of our individual insecurities and hang ups.
When I've been successful in a relationship, it's always been when I can put aside my fears that I'm not "really" hot enough for him. That he's just biding his time until something better comes along. Because, after all, I'm heavier NOW than I've ever been in my life. Way heavier than when my dad or my ex were dogging me out about my weight. My size and appearance are obviously a hot button for me.
Other people on this forum have other insecurities and issues.
I think people may be attracted to each other initially based on appearance, but I honestly think it's our insecurities and our issues, our irrational phobias, and our obsessions (and maybe, in some cases, but I don't see it as much here in this forum just plain entitlement and selfishness) are what pushes others away and keeps us single. Or causes *US* to push others away when they get too close, still rendering us single.
Edit to add: I don't think I read your comment right when I first wrote this...If you're saying I'm taking my hangup about men not thinking I'm pretty and/or thin enough, and applying that to everyone on this board who is single, then no... that's not what I am doing. What I am saying is that many of us have expressed an opinion about ourselves, and others on this board have tried to show them that it's a false belief, but we don't believe it because their opinion isn't the one that matters to us. We still believe the negative even though many are giving us positive feedback. It's just in my case that it's opinions about being beautiful.0 -
It's like today at the Tough Mudder: The team I ran with was a group of young, fit, CrossFitters and sky-divers. One lady kept falling behind so I decided to stick with her. She continually dogged herself out about being old and slow. I told her no one cared about that everyone was impressed she was accomplishing the race after a significant injury earlier in the year. Yet it was a constant sore spot with her that she kept having to stop and walk.
I, on the other hand, was constantly griping about how big I was and how heavy I was and how the guys really struggled with my weight on the obstacles. She kept telling me no one cared; that the guys were sooooo impressed by my performance on other things.
We both kept telling each other to stop worrying about what others think and let it go.
It just happens her issue does not bother me (I always think it's cool when I can hang with the young bucks in a physical challenge). And my issue doesn't bother her (she's at peace with the fact that she'll never be a size 6 and she doesn't care who thinks she looks good or heavy or whatever).
Another example would be my friends who think that they are less of a woman if they don't get married. I'm cool with never remarrying (thought with the right guy it would be nice). OTOH, I tend to feel I'm less of a woman if I'm not turning heads, whereas they might not care about turning heads as long as they're accomplished in other areas.
We all have our hangups. Having them isn't the problem. It's how we handle them.0 -
I think people may be attracted to each other initially based on appearance, but I honestly think it's our insecurities and our issues, our irrational phobias, and our obsessions (and maybe, in some cases, but I don't see it as much here in this forum just plain entitlement and selfishness) are what pushes others away and keeps us single. Or causes *US* to push others away when they get too close, still rendering us single.
Agree 100%.
I don't think I'm horrible looking. But I think my insecurities affect me when I meet a guy.0 -
Janie, it's definitely not just you and it's not just this board.....unfortunately, it's society in general. But, you are a beautiful woman!!!! :flowerforyou:
I heard a phrase during a speech long ago in reference to the golden rule. We all know that we should practice the golden rule but, the one that stuck out was "for every negative comment a person hears, it takes two positive comments to get them back on track". The speaker stated that this is true for men and women alike. Ever since I heard that, it's been in the back of my head. Whether it's backed up by studies or not, I do believe there has to be some kind of truth to it. However, I think that we all have trigger points. It's very difficult, but if we can embrace who we are, than we can let those negative comments slide off a lot easier. (Not saying we won't have bad days)
Smile, though...you are beautiful... :flowerforyou:0 -
Just as I have a hard time accepting anyone would find me okay to be with I have learned to accept that maybe some actually do.
You know the truth Janie (and you too Christine) so accept it and live your life accordingly.
What possible good can come from believing you are undesirable when it is obviously not so.
Christine,please see the pattern...you are keeping yourself from moving to the place you want to be and needlessly.
Guys,by your own writings,find you pleasant and attractive,so go with that.
Again...please? :flowerforyou:0 -
Perhaps I'm the exception to the rule, but when I get a compliment, I believe it!! :laugh: Perhaps I've just been lucky and not had bad things said to me in my childhood or romantic life. Certainly not anything personal that would lower my self esteem anyhow.
I honestly think that if you criticise yourself in front of people often enough (and we've all done this), then they will start to believe you!! Point out the good stuff, not the bad. Confidence is attractive. Self deprecation is not.
And I'm not one of those people on this board that needs to know why ALL men dont find me attractive. I KNOW they don't and they never have. I've always been more personality than beauty. But the guys that DO find me attractive are the one's that I've had relationships with, and those are the only one's I need to!! (I agree with Carl, of course the people that are esconced in a relationship are going to find their partners hot! Otherwise they wouldn't be with them!) The guy that sent me a text this week saying "God girl, you are hot!" really is the only reassurance I need, cos I think he's freakin hot too!!
Attraction is indefinable. I dont find all guys attractive either. In fact, there are very few...........but I digress.....0 -
, I tend to feel I'm less of a woman if I'm not turning heads,
Well, if this is what defines you and you think the reason it's not happening as much as you'd like is because you've put on weight, then you need to lose the weight and get your self confidence back? It's obviously creating an 'issue' and therefore you need to deal with it :flowerforyou:0 -
If a guy had made that remark about turning heads regarding a womans value he would likely and rightly be torn apart for it.
Please ladies,don`t feel something you would detest if said by someone else.0 -
If a guy had made that remark about turning heads regarding a womans value he would likely and rightly be torn apart for it.
Please ladies,don`t feel something you would detest if said by someone else.
I think this is the crux of my problem. Even though you are right... I can think of a few male personalities on this board who have been jumped for expressing that opinion of women...I just have a hard time believing that "most" men feel any other way.
I think they may *say* that to appease the ladies and be politically correct, but detest it or not, I don't believe that "most men" initially value a woman (for relationship) who doesn't turn heads. I think he may grow to appreciate her personality in the process of pursuing her, but that the initial attraction is simply on whether or not the barometer goes up and (to some extent) whether or not his peers will think she's hot.0 -
If a guy had made that remark about turning heads regarding a womans value he would likely and rightly be torn apart for it.
Please ladies,don`t feel something you would detest if said by someone else.
I think this is the crux of my problem. Even though you are right... I can think of a few male personalities on this board who have been jumped for expressing that opinion of women...I just have a hard time believing that "most" men feel any other way.
I think they may *say* that to appease the ladies and be politically correct, but detest it or not, I don't believe that "most men" initially value a woman (for relationship) who doesn't turn heads. I think he may grow to appreciate her personality in the process of pursuing her, but that the initial attraction is simply on whether or not the barometer goes up and (to some extent) whether or not his peers will think she's hot.
Are women not drawn by attractiveness too?0 -
Are women not drawn by attractiveness too?
To some extent, sure. But I think it's different for women. I at least know it's different for me. What attracts me most about a man is his power and personality. By power, I don't mean money but is he a man who can make decisions and lead with confidence. If so, does he carry himself with respect for others/humbleness.
Stuff like that.0 -
it's only hard for people who want to see negative things about themselves. sorry to say, but if you truly believe you're awesome then you'll take the bad stuff with a grain of salt.I at least know it's different for me. What attracts me most about a man is his power and personality.
this is different from me. sorry but i cant cuddle or screw power or personality :laugh: there definitely has to be some attraction for me because if i'm not physically attracted to someone there's is absolutely positively no way i could ever have a physical relationship with. i know for some girls they can do that let's be friends first and then let physical attraction grow, i can't do that.
with that said, my definitions are attractiveness are pretty vague and changes depending on the person0 -
I believe each and every person that tells me I have a great *kitten*.0
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my mother told me, my entire life that everyone around me will lie to my face. they will only tell me what i WANT to hear, not what i NEED to hear. she told me that she was the only person who would ever tell me the truth. and you know, for a very very very long time, i believed her.
so, i never believed anything anyone ever said to me. i would laugh at them. i would call them a liar in my head.
she told me i was a fat bride ( my dress was a size 10 and had to be taken in)
she told me that my ex would cheat on me after my first was born because i didn't lose the baby weight fast enough.
she told me i COULD be pretty, if only i wore lipstick
she said to me when preggo with number 1, " you're bigger than me now."
she has pointed out for years now that my stomach isn't flat like it was before having babies.
she loves to tell me that no man would want a woman who is fat, and has 5 kids.
so yeah, i was raised NOT to believe what other people tell me. and even though i TRY to work on this, i don't. i still laugh, and call them a liar in my head........ it doesn't matter what they're telling me, 9 out of 10 times, i don't believe it.
the ONLY thing i ever believe and feel 100% confident about, is the fact that i have great boobs! that's it. i KNOW they're awesome and since most people agree with me, i can believe it. :-)0 -
Why do I sometimes focus more on negatives? Easy. My mother.
Janie..and other women. I think you should have some good old fashioned naked time in front of the mirror. You don't get to leave either until you have stopped fighting the negative thoughts and started pulling out positives. This worked for me...0 -
I believe each and every person that tells me I have a great *kitten*.
You definitely have a great *kitten*.
--P0 -
It could be any number of things. I really struggle with this... Maybe because it's easier to put ourselves down. I don't know why, but it is. Or maybe there were bad experiences. Maybe someone told us that what we were wasn't *attractive* enough. And for some reason, that hits us harder than hearing how nice we look or that we are beautiful. Bad things and experiences tend to stick more than good stuff that happens.
Yep this is true for me in many ways. I have a hard time accepting compliments from others since mentally I look and feel the weight I was before starting with the fitness and healthy eating. I believe other people when they say nice things to me. I just don't believe it myself. Does that make sense? :laugh: I know it's getting better for me though. I used to feel this way 100% of the time. Now it's about 70% of the time.We all have our hangups. Having them isn't the problem. It's how we handle them.
110% true. Reminds me of this quote I ran across a while ago:
"Once you have accepted your flaws, no one can use them against you." -Unknown0 -
If a guy had made that remark about turning heads regarding a womans value he would likely and rightly be torn apart for it.
Please ladies,don`t feel something you would detest if said by someone else.
I think this is the crux of my problem. Even though you are right... I can think of a few male personalities on this board who have been jumped for expressing that opinion of women...I just have a hard time believing that "most" men feel any other way.
I think they may *say* that to appease the ladies and be politically correct, but detest it or not, I don't believe that "most men" initially value a woman (for relationship) who doesn't turn heads. I think he may grow to appreciate her personality in the process of pursuing her, but that the initial attraction is simply on whether or not the barometer goes up and (to some extent) whether or not his peers will think she's hot.
I think the opposite. I think this board has an overall negative portrayal of women and how much looks matter in the scheme of things, which is no way representative of real life. So negative in fact, that sometimes I dont even read half the threads that are shallow and mocking of most of us on here!!
I think the 'problem' with this site is that it's a fitness site, so (some) people are bound to be obsessed with looks to one degree or another. And, no doubt, there are certain places in America that are obsessed with body image and hollywood glam to the point of fantasy! This is what comes across to me, as a Brit, far too often. And also, there is the psychological fact that fat people got fat because of 'issues' in the first place!!
But I only need to look around me, and draw from my experience to see that real life relationships are not built on looks at all. (Some are. But I question their durability). Initial attraction is subjective. There are just as many ugly, fat, short, disabled, afflicted people in relationships as there are average people in relationships as there are lookers! And MOST people are in the average category. If all men were holding out for a 9 every day, where 9's are about 0.000001% of the population, there would be a billion+ more single people........ the whole looks thing is so irrational that I also question some peoples mental stability on here........:laugh:
So, your problem lies within your own self image and superficial nature, which is really sad tbh! I guess someone told you you were fat, and that fat matters, and you believed them! And now you tell yourself the same thing daily and you believe it. Like I said, tell someone, or yourself, something often enough and you and they will believe it! Try telling yourself every day that you are beautiful.....I often look in the mirror and think I look freakin gorgeous!!! But obviously am too modest to admit this!! :laugh:0 -
Congrats on the Tough Mudder, that is a huge accomplishment! It is one of the things on my list of goals.
I think the negative sticks with us, as part of our internal dialogue. I have learned to shut it off, but it creeps up. I think it goes beyond just our self image. Think about your annual review at work, your manager can tell you 20 things that you do well and give you one area for improvement and that is all you focus on. I think it is human nature. It is easy to focus on our looks because it is the first thing people notice about us. If someone doesn't like us, it is easy to blame it on our weight, or being shy, instead of the other person is a dork and we just have nothing in common.
Then there is the issue of taking compliments is hard.0 -
I thought this was relevant :flowerforyou:0
