A little help!! please

pullem
pullem Posts: 87 Member
Can someone tell me if the below calcs are right because as I am looking at it at the moment the figures sound terribly low & would mean I am netting under BMR regularly. Should I just stick with my current method of netting 1500 & recording exercise to eat it back?

Female - Age 33 - CW 146 - Height 65" - 135 GW
Bodyfat average 27.23%
GW %bf 18-20%
Katch-McArdle BMR - 1414

Activity Weekly 4 hrs - 2 x 45 min lifting, 2 x 60 min lifting 2 x 30 min HIIT.
Desk job otherwise with some additional activity besides Sedentary level.
TDEE - 2046 which is 1.45 multiplier

Eating Goal - 1595 6 days a week. 22% deficit?? for lifting ratio
2046 TDEE 1 day a week

Currently I net 1500 daily & eat whatever exercise calories back which for the last week has resulted in average 1770 gross / 1494 net a day (only just above BMR).

With new calculations above would have resulted in the following for the last week:
Wed - 1595, record workout as 0, (workout 426, net 1169)
Thur - 1595, record workout as 0, (workout 430, net 1165)
Fri - 2046, rest day
Sat - 1595, record workout as 0, (workout 260, net 1335)
Sun - 1595, record workout as 0, (workout 721, net 874)
Mon - 1595, record workout as 0, (workout 273, net 1322)
Tues - 1595, record workout as 0, (workout 356, net 1239)

average 1659 gross / 1307 net a day (which is under BMR!!)

Thanks in advance

Replies

  • Greenrun99
    Greenrun99 Posts: 2,065 Member
    May I ask where you read about this lifting ratio of 22% deficit and your eating goal?

    Eat 1750-1850 or so calories daily(depending on how active those workouts are, the higher you eat), don't eat back exercise calories and adjust after 4-6 weeks depending on results.. thats at a 15% deficit at moderate exercise. Rest day you eat the same amount as well.

    My 2 cents
  • pullem
    pullem Posts: 87 Member
    Thanks for your input

    I was advised to use a calculator from another EM2WL member's profile page on here.
    But the calculations just don't seem to fit for me unless there is something I'm missing?, I'm 5 weeks into a 6 week trial of eating as above so will know next week when I compare photos & hopefully see inch loss whether it has been successful or not.

    From my limited understanding you need to make a steeper deficit when lifting heavy, as it causes you to retain LBM
    So the 22% deficit is based on 11lbs left to lose with my cardio to lifting ratio.
    Eating at 22% deficit 6 times a week, then 1 day at TDEE to allow reset/recovery.
    But the flaw comes where a 22% deficit is only 181 calories away from my BMR and all my workouts are over this figure.

    What I am doing currently netting 1500 & eating exercise calories means I range from 1479 (lowest) on a rest day to 2225 (highest) on a lifting day with a daily average of 1770 excluding exercise (basically -15% on TDEE) so I guess I should just stick with this for now & wait for the results next week
  • Thanks for your input

    I was advised to use a calculator from another EM2WL member's profile page on here.
    But the calculations just don't seem to fit for me unless there is something I'm missing?, I'm 5 weeks into a 6 week trial of eating as above so will know next week when I compare photos & hopefully see inch loss whether it has been successful or not.

    From my limited understanding you need to make a steeper deficit when lifting heavy, as it causes you to retain LBM
    So the 22% deficit is based on 11lbs left to lose with my cardio to lifting ratio.
    Eating at 22% deficit 6 times a week, then 1 day at TDEE to allow reset/recovery.
    But the flaw comes where a 22% deficit is only 181 calories away from my BMR and all my workouts are over this figure.

    What I am doing currently netting 1500 & eating exercise calories means I range from 1479 (lowest) on a rest day to 2225 (highest) on a lifting day with a daily average of 1770 excluding exercise (basically -15% on TDEE) so I guess I should just stick with this for now & wait for the results next week

    From what I understand if you only have 11 pounds to lose your cut % is too high. Drop it to 10% or 15% at the very most. Others can chime in on this but that is what I have learned. in my few days here.
  • LuluProteinFueled
    LuluProteinFueled Posts: 261 Member
    From my limited understanding you need to make a steeper deficit when lifting heavy, as it causes you to retain LBM

    I think you may have this idea the wrong way round.

    A large calorie deficit can mean that you start losing muscle as well. This is definitely not what you want. When you're lifting heavy, it's best to eat as close to TDEE as possible to retain LBM.

    Also, the less you have to lose, the smaller your deficit should be. If you want to make the most of your lifting, do a 10% cut. Your muscles need the fuel.

    Or even eat at TDEE for awhile and then drop to your 10% cut. You won't gain fat and you'll still be changing your composition by lifting.

    A 22% deficit is not recommended anywhere, and the steepest deficit EM2WL people usually recommend is 15%.

    Hope that helps :smile:
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    But the flaw comes where a 22% deficit is only 181 calories away from my BMR and all my workouts are over this figure.

    Your workout calories for lifting are based on HRM perhaps?

    Totally invalid and really inflated.

    Take the HRM estimate by 1/4 to 1/3.

    Why? HRM calorie estimates are only valid for steady-state aerobic, where it takes 3-5 min of steady exercise to reach a level of accuracy.
    Lifting and HIIT is anaerobic, and with fast drops and fast builds of HR, totally fooling the HRM into inflating the calorie burn estimates.

    Frankly, every single study of even the poorly maintained VLCD's show muscle is retained if resistance exercise is done, imagine that, eating 800 calories and retaining all your LBM. But that is under Dr supervision, they drink shakes with total nutrients required, have blood workup, ect.
    And they usually don't sustain well on their own when the study is over. And they probably lucked out it was only 6-16 weeks long in the first place.

    Hence the reason to avoid that direction.

    But really no need to go to the other extreme either, unless you have a lot of stresses in life and health issues that warrant taking it slower than needed.

    But - here's a study of already athletic folks that didn't have nearly as much to lose, on a deficit equal to 0.7% of their current weight. They lost fat and weight, and actually gained LBM, and muscle according to the DEXA scans in this case, and increased strength and endurance.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/447514-athletes-can-gain-muscle-while-losing-fat-on-deficit-diet

    You can take, don't have to, but can take a steeper deficit if lifting heavy and not doing a lot of cardio, even if some days you dip below BMR (which I doubt really happens if you use correct calorie burn).

    There are already 13 ladies using those same results in the spreadsheet (yours will vary of course because of cardio to lifting ratio) actually showing in their measurements and estimates of LBM they are losing more fat while gaining LBM, and losing weight. That is the kicker usually, going too slow on weight loss by over-estimating the TDEE.
    Or worse yet, keep gaining LBM slowly but surely while losing fat is great, but maybe your joints would appreciate less weight right now. Bigger deficit that is still reasonable hasn't shown to result in LBM loss if resistance training is done.

    You can also use the TDEE Deficit tab, the the normal probably 12% deficit value that is given there. At least it's based on better TDEE estimate.

    Obviously, slower is better than too fast, but slower because of suppressed metabolism isn't, and slower because of overestimating everything isn't necessary either. Studies show there are safe ranges, but you have to nail the BMR and TDEE best you can, then do the exercise and eat the protein to support what that safe range is.
  • pullem
    pullem Posts: 87 Member
    Thanks all for your input, so as I understand it depends on the rate of loss I want to see - for an approx 0.5lbs loss per week I should eat at TDEE - 10-15% or if I want a 1lb loss per week then I can safely go to TDEE - 22% with a reset day & still maintain/gain LBM. Obviously this will all tie in better next week once I have weighed in & taken measurements from 6 weeks at TDEE - 15% and see what results have been achieved.
  • LuluProteinFueled
    LuluProteinFueled Posts: 261 Member
    In my experience & opinion, 22% is too aggressive. If you're lifting, you want to feed your muscles, not risk losing them with too big of a deficit.

    The EM2WL group recommends 15% as a maximum cut.

    If you really don't have much to lose, again, I recommend a 10% cut.

    Also, keep in mind that the scale may not show the body composition changes that are occurring. And you retain fluid while lifting and this all contributes to what is on the scale.