I do not have a sweet spot!
ItsPheebs
Posts: 127 Member
I'm going to post this everywhere until someone can help me turn on the light bulb living over my head.
Last December I weighed 136 and had been steadily losing for the entire 18 months before that. Even months I didn't work out much, I always eat well and I continued to lose - albeit slowly. In the last 12 months I have continued to workout (doing the hardest training of my life) I don't binge eat, and even when I don't workout it wasn't for long. I was never one who did VCLD. I should have had SOME results in that time. Instead, outside of some varying levels of definition, I am the same. In fact, I weigh 140 regularly. My clothes are too tight. I can't keep doing this without results.
In the last year I have eaten at maintenance (2200-2500) and at TDEE with various levels of cut (1600 - 2000). My net sometimes drops below my BMR, which is 1450 (as done by a body fat analysis, not a calculator).
My workouts consist of strength training, circuit training, running, calisthenics, HIIT, walking, Muay Thai ... all kinds of things. Always three days a week, usually five, sometimes 7. I eat primarily vegan and I really don't believe that is a problem considering how long I've been doing it and due to the vegan athletes I'm around all the time. I honestly eat pretty clean, plant based, but I do eat enough protein.
I don't know how to start over, but because of work I need to lose about 7% BF by mid-February. I really can't handle doing this anymore without results, and I'm about to go VCLD or something because it's the only thing I haven't done.
I need a calorie goal. I need to change my training. I need to do something before you find me climbing up the bell tower.
Last December I weighed 136 and had been steadily losing for the entire 18 months before that. Even months I didn't work out much, I always eat well and I continued to lose - albeit slowly. In the last 12 months I have continued to workout (doing the hardest training of my life) I don't binge eat, and even when I don't workout it wasn't for long. I was never one who did VCLD. I should have had SOME results in that time. Instead, outside of some varying levels of definition, I am the same. In fact, I weigh 140 regularly. My clothes are too tight. I can't keep doing this without results.
In the last year I have eaten at maintenance (2200-2500) and at TDEE with various levels of cut (1600 - 2000). My net sometimes drops below my BMR, which is 1450 (as done by a body fat analysis, not a calculator).
My workouts consist of strength training, circuit training, running, calisthenics, HIIT, walking, Muay Thai ... all kinds of things. Always three days a week, usually five, sometimes 7. I eat primarily vegan and I really don't believe that is a problem considering how long I've been doing it and due to the vegan athletes I'm around all the time. I honestly eat pretty clean, plant based, but I do eat enough protein.
I don't know how to start over, but because of work I need to lose about 7% BF by mid-February. I really can't handle doing this anymore without results, and I'm about to go VCLD or something because it's the only thing I haven't done.
I need a calorie goal. I need to change my training. I need to do something before you find me climbing up the bell tower.
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I would try rearranging macros. The only thing that works for me is reducing carbs. It sucks, but it does the trick for me.
ETA: I'm not recommending anything seriously low carb. My goal is around 125 before any exercise.0 -
I would try rearranging macros. The only thing that works for me is reducing carbs. It sucks, but it does the trick for me.
ETA: I'm not recommending anything seriously low carb. My goal is around 125 before any exercise.
That's really hard for me to do. My body really seems to need them when I train hard. I keep thinking I need to drop my calories, but that's hard, too. By hard I mean not difficult, but I lose energy.0 -
I would try rearranging macros. The only thing that works for me is reducing carbs. It sucks, but it does the trick for me.
ETA: I'm not recommending anything seriously low carb. My goal is around 125 before any exercise.
That's really hard for me to do. My body really seems to need them when I train hard. I keep thinking I need to drop my calories, but that's hard, too. By hard I mean not difficult, but I lose energy.
It probably wouldn't have to be as drastic as I go (though many go much further), but just nudging them around here and there might get you somewhere. I would try it in 5% increments on the macros. It would be way better than trying a VLCD, which would drastically cut your carbs along with everything else. :-/
ETA: You don't have very much left to lose, so you wouldn't have to do it for very long. On the bright side, you know how to maintain. \o/ :flowerforyou:0 -
Indeed! I am the maintaining queen. :laugh:
I may have to COOK more. Oh for the love of all that is holy! A fate worse than death. :noway: :sad:0 -
Indeed! I am the maintaining queen. :laugh:
I may have to COOK more. Oh for the love of all that is holy! A fate worse than death. :noway: :sad:
I feel your pain.
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You have much less margin for error as you get closer to goal weight. Things that worked for first part of journey may be too stressful for later, and body under stress, diet, exercise, life, is going to fight that loss, and you have less wiggle room for things not being done on the head. And your genetics or past experience could make it harder too.
Some people have super hard time with last 5 lbs, some reach that with last 15 lbs.
How effective are those workouts?
Spikes of cortisol are good, elevated because of stress is bad.
"strength training, circuit training, running, calisthenics, HIIT, walking, Muay Thai ... all kinds of things. Always three days a week, usually five, sometimes 7."
You mention with athletes eating vegan, so I'm guessing complete proteins is enough, not gross protein as per label or such.
But your system may not like this level of stress, obviously stress regarding weight loss too.
Like, HIIT is really fad now, that really should only be compared to doing easy cardio as a better fat/weight loss method on limited time. But if you don't need it for sport specific reasons, spend the time lifting full body.
When you do 5 or 7 days, are they alternating as to intensity, or what is worked out?
Like, HIIT running doesn't follow a full lifting day, or proceed it, right, using the same muscles?
Running isn't at full blown pace 2 days in a row?
Circuit training doesn't proceed or follow lifting?
Those are just the variety of stuff you do, right?
Because lots of exercise is a stress to the body, diet is too, and if your body doesn't like the level of those and other, you are fighting a losing battle.
Depending on your metabolism reaction time, you might get some fat loss by cutting a tad more on a calmer week, or perhaps you do that already.
When you ate at TDEE for like a reset, how long did you gain weight if you jumped right to it, or did you really nail TDEE that well that there was no weight gain. Of course, you could have been at suppressed TDEE too. Unless you gain a tad, you don't know if metabolism went up to where it could have gone.
If it moved slowly, you could test for a week and drop an extra 250 calories. Should lose 1/2 lb if valid weigh-in day. Then go back to normal for a week, then another week extra cut.
If you don't lose 1/2, then your metabolism is moving slower too fast because of additional stress, and you may actually not be high enough TDEE estimate.
Regarding net sometimes dropping below BMR, that is based on exercise calories estimated how?
HRM? With correct stats for best estimate?
And your TDEE of 2400 about taken out of the HRM estimate. So HRM said you burned 600, but part of that is accounted for, so only burned 500 more than already accounted for.
Have you had an exercise break week and eaten at sedentary TDEE with deficit?
Throwing out a lot of common problems I've seen.0 -
@heybales -- Wow! So much thought went into that, thank you. :flowerforyou:
I did eat at TDEE for a long time, and I did gain about 3 pounds at the upper end (which have since left the building). So, my max was about 2500. I really don't drop below 1500 ever, and that's only briefly or for sick days, things like that. So, my metabolism really hadn't had damage done to it from low calorie eating. It may suck on it's own, but it wasn't me that did it.
I change up my workouts a lot because, well, I like it ... and because I'm training for a job in LE. I can't always control what types of training I do and how often because I have to do what we do in PT. Sometimes, as in the last 6 months, the intensity has been insane. Sometimes, it's been light. I do take rest days and light weeks religiously. I have been going light for about 6 weeks (partially due to burn out, partially in anticipation of having to step it up again). I see no difference in light weeks versus heavy weeks, except my definition is better and my body fat drops a teensie bit during heavy weeks. I did add in more moderate cardio these last few weeks.
HIIT is a necessity for me because it helps me dramatically with endurance and speed, and it's how we train in the academy in a lot of ways. And yes, the list is the variety of stuff that I do. Circuit training is my lifting that day, I don't work muscles back to back (at least not lifting -- push ups every day, yes), and I try not to run back to back days either. But, like I said, sometimes I'm doing 100 burpees and running stairs and doing very intense stuff because there's a guy screaming at me to move my *kitten*.
I only started using an HRM a few months ago. Prior to that, I would estimate based on calculators, etc. I don't do the percentage of whatsit subtracted from whosit because the more complicated I make the calculations the more I freak out. I don't typically eat back all my exercise calories, or estimated exercise calories, and I usually underestimate a bit. I also wear a Fitbit so I find some middle ground there. When I say that I eat below BMR that was on days where I was training for 90 minutes at insane intensity with my class. I estimate those as 1000 calorie burn days sometimes, maybe less, some days doing two-a-days and burning that high. I will eat them back when I'm hungry, but almost never all the way back.
I know there is less margin of error ... but I would expect something over the last six months. Slow, but something. In the beginning of my weight loss journey, I could make a training plan and stick to it for a few weeks, then change it. Now, I don't have that option. I have a hard time even telling you the weird stuff we do ... climbing walls, dragging dummies around, heavy weight pulls, partner drills, sprints, tire flips, ladders, ammo can runs. It changes each time.
I will soon be adding in Jiu Jitsu and Crossfit. Soooo ... that's one reason I've had a hard time finding TDEE at this activity level and setting a calorie goal. Too low, I lose nothing and I have no energy. Too high, I make no progress.0 -
My suggestion, since you know what your TDEE is roughly take a 5-8% cut from that and eat that.. I am talking NET so eat those exercise calories.. if your looking for 7% BF drop by Feb (which is a bit of a challenge) you will probably need to switch your workouts up.. I know you said you don't have much control over it but outside of all the aerobic activity you are doing, switch your strength training up to something you have not done and obviously lift heavy.. 5-10 reps max..
You can obviously do burpees to the moon but how many pull ups can you do? PT they probably have you do that, if its not many, work on that stuff for example.
Oh and if you cut your calories to get the scale to move, you will just be skinny fat cause with your activity level and a high calorie deficit you will definitely lose muscle and not drop BF but I am sure the scale will move.0 -
Wow, PheebsToo, the amount of exercise you get is kinda crazy! I feel like a slug compared to you. Just wanted to post this and throw it in the garbage if you want, but I agree with HeyBales that the sheer amount of activity you get could be causing your body to hold onto weight/fat. My own contrarian body does the same -- the more exercise I do, the harder it is for me to lose weight. It's a balancing act and it's different for everyone.
Sorry, not too scientific, just a personal observation. I hope you come up with the answer soon because you are trying so hard.
I couldn't do what you're doing -- the mere thought of *having* to lose 7% bf in two months would freak me out!!! What kind of job are you training to get?0 -
I only started using an HRM a few months ago. Prior to that, I would estimate based on calculators, etc. I don't do the percentage of whatsit subtracted from whosit because the more complicated I make the calculations the more I freak out. I don't typically eat back all my exercise calories, or estimated exercise calories, and I usually underestimate a bit. I also wear a Fitbit so I find some middle ground there. When I say that I eat below BMR that was on days where I was training for 90 minutes at insane intensity with my class. I estimate those as 1000 calorie burn days sometimes, maybe less, some days doing two-a-days and burning that high. I will eat them back when I'm hungry, but almost never all the way back.
I agree, finding an avg TDEE for you to hopefully find an avg eating goal isn't going to work.
I would say that if you have ANY part of your week that is consistent, like so many hrs even standing or walking or always a run a certain day, use what is constant in a TDEE estimate. Then get a deficit off it.
Then, confirm HRM is setup best it can be, get some best calorie burns you can, and deficit those and eat them back.
Unless you have a Polar HRM with VO2max stat, for your fitness level, you already have underestimated calorie burns, guaranteed for steady-state aerobic workouts. Now, interval and lifting type stuff, that is inflated using HRM.
And if you do have one, but VO2max and HRmax aren't best estimates, who knows which way it goes.
But that's the fine line I'm talking about.
To take the stress out of getting that done that way with that variable of a workout, there is a spreadsheet linked in this topic to help estimate it better.
Get the Simple Setup tab totally done, but only put in the Activity Calculator stuff that is almost always done and consistent.
Now go to the MFP Tweak tab.
Use the Katch BMR shown, and that same BMR multiplier that it shows there from the Activity Calc.
So there's your deficit and base calories for your amount to lose, which sounds like you'll always be adding to except on rest days.
Section below is for you to enter in the HRM calories and time, it'll remove calories already accounted for in the TDEE, and take the same deficit off. You need to eat all those back, I really think your deficit is bigger than you think.
To confirm your HRM calories, go to the HRM tab and get those stats filled in as best you can using the info there.
You can now go back to the MFP Tweak tab and enter in a workout time and avgHR and compare. That is using a Polar study formula, but totally tweaked for your stats, just like the more expensive Polar HRM's have.
That should take the stress out of eating-back, time and AHR is all you need there, calories told to you, enter calories and time again, done. It'll show you what that total daily deficit ends up being then.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/750920-spreadsheet-for-bmr-tdee-deficit-macro-calcs-hrm-zones0 -
Oh yeah, if weight stays the same and bf% drops, that's good.
If weight goes up and totally LBM, then BF% drops too.0 -
Yeah I'm with heybales on this one. Because your workouts are so varied, a TDEE estimate across the board isn't going to be as accurate as it would be for someone who did the same things 4-5 times a week without variance.
If you can really try and dial in those burns as accurately as possible, I'd recommend netting just over BMR for a couple of weeks and see what happens. Then your losses can come from everything non-exercise that you do in a day... for most people it will be 300-600 calories or more of just plain old moving around.0 -
I wish I could see these forums on my phone app!
Thanks for all the good information. I will check out that spreadsheet in more depth.
Oh, and @amanda_gent ... seriously, it's not always like that. I have many slug-like periods! (Like right now.) It's all about finding the activities I like, then I'm just playing and not working out.0 -
if you want, but I agree with HeyBales that the sheer amount of activity you get could be causing your body to hold onto weight/fat. My own contrarian body does the same -- the more exercise I do, the harder it is for me to lose weight. It's a balancing act and it's different for everyone.
Yes, Yes, Yes.... ^ this is me as well. i just got back from an active (very) vacation on Kauai....and recently learned by jumping on the scale, that i lost 7 lbs in about 11 days. CRAZY. obviously not all fat, but let me tell you, i ATE. i didn't log meals, i enjoyed them, along with desserts and drinks. i am 43 and workout a lot in my normal/daily life (hot yoga instructor and lots of various cardio + Mom of four daughters). for me, to *not* do nearly as much organized cardio and just be active, seemed to drop the pounds...and probably eating more. yay!0 -
@norcal_yogi - sometimes it seems like the stress of needing to lose weight either IRL or in our minds is what holds it on! I always lose weight on vacations, and it's not because I'm not eating!
@PheebsToo - still hoping you find your sweet spot!0
