Ketogenic Diet.....thoughts from this group.
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i have never tried keto diet myself but i have seen guys on here get fantastic results from it ( i am talking 89 lbs in 4.5 months and his bench is upto 350 lbs!) thanks to the efficient fuel partitioning.Also i'd like to point out that if you want to get into a nutritional ketosis,you can't have your protein numbers that high.Read this book if you are interested in ketosis-the art and science of low carbohydrate performance or just google Jeff Volek and Phinney.They are pioneers in the field of low carb science.
I am just sharing what i know about low carb diets and in no way supporting keto based diets(untill i try it personally)
I think I know who you mean and I would take that with a pinch of salt tbh.0 -
If i want to just be low carb what should my macros be? I want to stay fairly low with carbs methinks.
If you want to stay fairly low, just use your 'variable' amount for protein/fat.0 -
Also, there is no science that suggest it provides any greater advantage to weight loss or fat loss.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:sUbLgnm0uawJ:anhi.org/abbottnutritionrd/pdfs/110th%20proceedings/110th_AN_Conference_Volek_12-7-09.pdf+&hl=en&gl=in&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiGV44egBrPcPaoLtaoWZdcJaeLgHnU02frMuCMKvH19psjPvn1hpHQO9RKk_34BjI2WVjG6GV_lD0SPldMVRa6Y1I6GVcQDaGlvQuweZKZvCnpeysyEgvnbkr14s_uD6Ot0Bp6&sig=AHIEtbQ72otKQzbDUlZSZ8dn3_GWL8Qe4w
sorry for the big *kitten* link lol but i found this research very interesting so thought i would share with you
I cannot get into that. Do you have another link?0 -
Also, there is no science that suggest it provides any greater advantage to weight loss or fat loss.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:sUbLgnm0uawJ:anhi.org/abbottnutritionrd/pdfs/110th%20proceedings/110th_AN_Conference_Volek_12-7-09.pdf+&hl=en&gl=in&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiGV44egBrPcPaoLtaoWZdcJaeLgHnU02frMuCMKvH19psjPvn1hpHQO9RKk_34BjI2WVjG6GV_lD0SPldMVRa6Y1I6GVcQDaGlvQuweZKZvCnpeysyEgvnbkr14s_uD6Ot0Bp6&sig=AHIEtbQ72otKQzbDUlZSZ8dn3_GWL8Qe4w
sorry for the big *kitten* link lol but i found this research very interesting so thought i would share with you
I cannot get into that. Do you have another link?
its a pdf file.Ok do one thing..google this "Impact of Nutrition on Lean Body Mass and Exercise Recovery in Athletes".And open the first pdf search result you get0 -
i have never tried keto diet myself but i have seen guys on here get fantastic results from it ( i am talking 89 lbs in 4.5 months and his bench is upto 350 lbs!) thanks to the efficient fuel partitioning.Also i'd like to point out that if you want to get into a nutritional ketosis,you can't have your protein numbers that high.Read this book if you are interested in ketosis-the art and science of low carbohydrate performance or just google Jeff Volek and Phinney.They are pioneers in the field of low carb science.
I am just sharing what i know about low carb diets and in no way supporting keto based diets(untill i try it personally)
I think I know who you mean and I would take that with a pinch of salt tbh.
lol given your knowledge and expertize,skepticism over something like this is inevitable.So just watch their youtube videos volek and Phinney or read the book i previously mentioned.Who knows you might get something valuable out of it
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Also, there is no science that suggest it provides any greater advantage to weight loss or fat loss.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:sUbLgnm0uawJ:anhi.org/abbottnutritionrd/pdfs/110th%20proceedings/110th_AN_Conference_Volek_12-7-09.pdf+&hl=en&gl=in&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiGV44egBrPcPaoLtaoWZdcJaeLgHnU02frMuCMKvH19psjPvn1hpHQO9RKk_34BjI2WVjG6GV_lD0SPldMVRa6Y1I6GVcQDaGlvQuweZKZvCnpeysyEgvnbkr14s_uD6Ot0Bp6&sig=AHIEtbQ72otKQzbDUlZSZ8dn3_GWL8Qe4w
sorry for the big *kitten* link lol but i found this research very interesting so thought i would share with you
I cannot get into that. Do you have another link?
its a pdf file.Ok do one thing..google this "Impact of Nutrition on Lean Body Mass and Exercise Recovery in Athletes".And open the first pdf search result you get
Thanks.
The problem with these interpretations is that they do not keep protein constant.
At first glance - and I need to look at them further, the main study cited is this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC538279/. Protein was not held constant from what I can see.Also, the study was only 21 days and so not a good representation of long-term results.
I will check out the other studies also.0 -
i have never tried keto diet myself but i have seen guys on here get fantastic results from it ( i am talking 89 lbs in 4.5 months and his bench is upto 350 lbs!) thanks to the efficient fuel partitioning.Also i'd like to point out that if you want to get into a nutritional ketosis,you can't have your protein numbers that high.Read this book if you are interested in ketosis-the art and science of low carbohydrate performance or just google Jeff Volek and Phinney.They are pioneers in the field of low carb science.
I am just sharing what i know about low carb diets and in no way supporting keto based diets(untill i try it personally)
I think I know who you mean and I would take that with a pinch of salt tbh.
lol given your knowledge and expertize,skepticism over something like this is inevitable.So just watch their youtube videos volek and Phinney or read the book i previously mentioned.Who knows you might get something valuable out of it
I am talking about the person you referred to getting fantastic results.0 -
i know you are talking about spartanmaker.And he is following that book to the T0
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i know you are talking about spartanmaker.And he is following that book to the T
I am not doubting that he is following the book.
I just want to be clear here - I am not saying that you cannot have good gym performance on a keto diet - some can, but many cannot. There is also the very large concern of adherence when you need to stick to a very restrictive plan.0 -
Also, there is no science that suggest it provides any greater advantage to weight loss or fat loss.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:sUbLgnm0uawJ:anhi.org/abbottnutritionrd/pdfs/110th%20proceedings/110th_AN_Conference_Volek_12-7-09.pdf+&hl=en&gl=in&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiGV44egBrPcPaoLtaoWZdcJaeLgHnU02frMuCMKvH19psjPvn1hpHQO9RKk_34BjI2WVjG6GV_lD0SPldMVRa6Y1I6GVcQDaGlvQuweZKZvCnpeysyEgvnbkr14s_uD6Ot0Bp6&sig=AHIEtbQ72otKQzbDUlZSZ8dn3_GWL8Qe4w
sorry for the big *kitten* link lol but i found this research very interesting so thought i would share with you
I cannot get into that. Do you have another link?
its a pdf file.Ok do one thing..google this "Impact of Nutrition on Lean Body Mass and Exercise Recovery in Athletes".And open the first pdf search result you get
Thanks.
The problem with these interpretations is that they do not keep protein constant.
At first glance - and I need to look at them further, the main study cited is this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC538279/. Protein was not held constant from what I can see.Also, the study was only 21 days and so not a good representation of long-term results.
I will check out the other studies also.
check the other studies..they are of proper duration(12 weeks)0 -
Also, there is no science that suggest it provides any greater advantage to weight loss or fat loss.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:sUbLgnm0uawJ:anhi.org/abbottnutritionrd/pdfs/110th%20proceedings/110th_AN_Conference_Volek_12-7-09.pdf+&hl=en&gl=in&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiGV44egBrPcPaoLtaoWZdcJaeLgHnU02frMuCMKvH19psjPvn1hpHQO9RKk_34BjI2WVjG6GV_lD0SPldMVRa6Y1I6GVcQDaGlvQuweZKZvCnpeysyEgvnbkr14s_uD6Ot0Bp6&sig=AHIEtbQ72otKQzbDUlZSZ8dn3_GWL8Qe4w
sorry for the big *kitten* link lol but i found this research very interesting so thought i would share with you
I cannot get into that. Do you have another link?
its a pdf file.Ok do one thing..google this "Impact of Nutrition on Lean Body Mass and Exercise Recovery in Athletes".And open the first pdf search result you get
Thanks.
The problem with these interpretations is that they do not keep protein constant.
At first glance - and I need to look at them further, the main study cited is this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC538279/. Protein was not held constant from what I can see.Also, the study was only 21 days and so not a good representation of long-term results.
I will check out the other studies also.
check the other studies..they are of proper duration(12 weeks)
As I said - I will. While 12 weeks is not that long at least it gives enough time for a better application of BF% testing . I will also be checking to see if they hold protein constant.0 -
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As I said - I will. While 12 weeks is not that long at least it gives enough time for a better application of BF% testing . I will also be checking to see if they hold protein constant.
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cool.i would have appreciated if you had been a tad bit optimistic about it given i just wanted to share my finds not prove anything.Oh well!0 -
As I said - I will. While 12 weeks is not that long at least it gives enough time for a better application of BF% testing . I will also be checking to see if they hold protein constant.
cool.i would have appreciated if you had been a tad bit optimistic about it given i just wanted to share my finds not prove anything.Oh well!
Your input is appreciated. It is just that I have not seen any compelling studies that indicate low carb is beneficial in the long term and there are no new studies cited in the link you provided so I admit I am skeptical.0 -
i have never tried keto diet myself but i have seen guys on here get fantastic results from it ( i am talking 89 lbs in 4.5 months and his bench is upto 350 lbs!) thanks to the efficient fuel partitioning.Also i'd like to point out that if you want to get into a nutritional ketosis,you can't have your protein numbers that high.Read this book if you are interested in ketosis-the art and science of low carbohydrate performance or just google Jeff Volek and Phinney.They are pioneers in the field of low carb science.
I am just sharing what i know about low carb diets and in no way supporting keto based diets(untill i try it personally)
I think I know who you mean and I would take that with a pinch of salt tbh.
lol given your knowledge and expertize,skepticism over something like this is inevitable.So just watch their youtube videos volek and Phinney or read the book i previously mentioned.Who knows you might get something valuable out of it
Lol at Volek and Phinney, actually read their studies and pay attention to the study design, results and what they conclude0 -
I haven't been low energy, except initially. After that i had great energy and it felt consistent with my energy. I didnt miss anything while eating this way and didnt feel hungry even though i now realize my caloric intake was too low. I had long ago trained myself to look at food as merely energy and really don't get a lot of pleasure out of eating so eating the same thing often didnt bug me and in fact cut my meal prep times.
Thanks for those links and the book suggestion.0 -
I had long ago trained myself to look at food as merely energy and really don't get a lot of pleasure out of eating
Is this still the case?0 -
Yes. Because i wanted to teach my children how to also make their way on this earth without the modern world i raised them as a single father on subsistence farm where we raised almost everything we ate including meat, dairy, honey and veggies. So sometimes we all would eat the same thing for days on end to take advantage of seasonal cycles and harvests. I raised a valedictorian and a high honors student out of it and i think it is because they learned to think outside the box by having them bypass the psychology of putting too much emphasis on eating food for the sake of eating food, among other things i think we accept as norms in the modern American, consumer, insatiable culture.0
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Once people became agrarian then yes, carbs became a staple. You would have been hard pressed to find much carbs in montana. There arent that many root plants here to utilize. I think that when people talk about gut evolution you really have to take into account how long hominids have been around vs how long we have been agrarian and not hunter/gatheres. I mean at the longest, and i am being ultra generouse here, 20k years, vs 1 million (at least) years of evolution is a big difference.
I understand, that's why I wrote that various carbs grow naturally in many parts of the world. People did not have to be farmers to find corn, yams, potatoes, rice or oats growing. Which carb they found depended on which part of the world they were in.
None of those things were found in the wild just as you find them today. They all were propogated and selected to produce to the size you find them now, just like wild onions or strawberries aren't near the size the ones you find in a garden.0 -
Once people became agrarian then yes, carbs became a staple. You would have been hard pressed to find much carbs in montana. There arent that many root plants here to utilize. I think that when people talk about gut evolution you really have to take into account how long hominids have been around vs how long we have been agrarian and not hunter/gatheres. I mean at the longest, and i am being ultra generouse here, 20k years, vs 1 million (at least) years of evolution is a big difference.
I understand, that's why I wrote that various carbs grow naturally in many parts of the world. People did not have to be farmers to find corn, yams, potatoes, rice or oats growing. Which carb they found depended on which part of the world they were in.
None of those things were found in the wild just as you find them today. They all were propogated and selected to produce to the size you find them now, just like wild onions or strawberries aren't near the size the ones you find in a garden.
I didn't say that food in ancient times was the same as found in Western grocery stores. I said that the claim that ancient or traditional diets were/are low carb is not true. And today all food is not "propagated and selected to produce to the size you find them now." Not food grown in one's plot or caught from the river or found in the field.0 -
Once people became agrarian then yes, carbs became a staple. You would have been hard pressed to find much carbs in montana. There arent that many root plants here to utilize. I think that when people talk about gut evolution you eally have to take into account how long hominids have been around vs how long we have been agrarian and not hunter/gatheres. I mean at the longest, and i am being ultra generouse here, 20k years, vs 1 million (at least) years of evolution is a big difference.
I understand, that's why I wrote that various carbs grow naturally in many parts of the world. People did not have to be farmers to find corn, yams, potatoes, rice or oats growing. Which carb they found depended on which part of the world they were in.
None of those things were found in the wild just as you find them today. They all were propogated and selected to produce to the size you find them now, just like wild onions or strawberries aren't near the size the ones you find in a garden.
I didn't say that food in ancient times was the same as found in Western grocery stores. I said that the claim that ancient or traditional diets were/are low carb is not true. And today all food is not "propagated and selected to produce to the size you find them now." Not food grown in one's plot or caught from the river or found in the field.
You did say people didnt have to be farmers to find the carbs you mentioned which is just not true. Sure, yoi can go find a wild.onikn but they are rarely bigger than the size of a quarter and you would have to spend a whole day harvesting them to accumulate and amount to even include them as a percentage of a diet, much less a staple. All the plants you mention were all domesticated to be the size we find them now, thus the only we they could in fact become a relavent part of a diet.
Outt of the foods you mention only 2 of those were even known outside of the so called new world, rice and oats, being domesticated 11k years ago and 4k years ago respectively. And as with the other foods mentioned they were all propagated to the size we find them now. Besides that i get your point that you dont believe that pre agrarian societies used more carbs than is currently believed by most anthropologists and you might be able to find some support for this idea (i cannot) but the fact remains that carbs are found in great quantities only in agrarian cultures which havent been around for even the generous 20k years as i suggested before, unless you have data that no paleontologists have
This isnt something i read somewhere but realized after living a very subsistence lifestyle for years. The ONLY carbs i can come up with in the wild in montana would come from cattails, camas, yampa, and a few berries, as things like apples were not indigenous yo this continent pre-anglo contact. The archaeological record shows little in the way of tooth decay or other chronic diseases we now associate with high carb diets. Whats more, is extracting the carbs from roots such as camas isnt even doable without days in a pit bake, which must've taken the people who discovered this some time to realize this fact.
Sam- thanks for the book suggestion. I am reading it now. Interestingly they cite aboriginal populations here in montana i referenced earlier and whom i watch fall apart physically on almost a daily bases due to high carb diets they just arent used to. Diabetes will have almost the same effect as did small pox for this population.0
