Butterfly help

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gentlygently
gentlygently Posts: 752 Member
i've been having fun in my swimming lessons learning - amongst other things - the butterfly.

I can do 3 or 4 complete strokes ok, and can do a length with just one arm going (or alternating with both arms and just breathing on the one arm bit).

Occasionally I can even get a breath working properly with both arms - but only occasionally.

I've been watching you tube videos etc and having classes - and I guess i am not far off getting it but i am a bit stuck. I think i am dropping my hips too much when I breathe. Or perhaps rushing to get the arms back over and not waiting for the body to naturally float up after the second dolphin imitation. But i can't work out how to correct it.

Any suggestions?!

Many thanks

Replies

  • Misiaxcore
    Misiaxcore Posts: 659 Member
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    My best advice without seeing your stroke or being in the water right now to see what the heck I do is to be concious of keeping your butt as high as possible in the water, especially when you lift your head for a breath. And when you breathe you should try to only bend the neck up enough to catch your breath (read: don't lift your chest outta the water).

    Sorry, not sure if that's helpful at all. I'm not a coach so don't know how to word these things, I can only show them :( Best thing to do is ask your instructor during classes to watch your stroke and offer advice. Or if you know any competitive swimmers who are flyers :P I wish you luck! It's a fairly difficult stroke to completely master, but it's my fave :noway:
  • FitMama2013
    FitMama2013 Posts: 919 Member
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    Is there any way anyone can video you swimming so you can watch yourself? People could tell me about a stroke flaw a trillion times, but until I could SEE it, then I didn't really realize how to fix it. Since you know what fly should look like (on youtube, etc), perhaps comparing that to a video of yourself may help you. I wish I could help, but without seeing you in the pool, it's tough :(
  • royalfish
    royalfish Posts: 3 Member
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    I am a competitive swimmer (US Master) who studies Shaw Method and Total Immersion... I love to swim the butterfly. Here's what I recommend:

    1. Take it slow--nothing should be hurried, frantic or rushed. This is a beautiful, intelligent and graceful stroke. Try to feel that at all times!

    2. Work on body dolphin drills until you can really move across the water using only your body's undulation (refer to the Youtube link below).

    3. Incorporate a breath into the undulation using a small breast stroke scull in front of you.

    Try to get your undulations to a point where you can feel the water lifting your chest and head to air during each body undulation cycle. Your arms and legs should not be the main propulsive forces which bring you to air. That will tire you out! Your lungs are buoyant---let the natural buoyancy lift your chest and face up.

    4. Practice Breast-a-fly (breast stroke arms and breathing with a butterfly kick), breathing each stroke. Then alternate one butterfly arm recovery (non-breathing) with a breast arm recovery (breathing).

    5. When swimming full stroke, your face should be looking down, even when you breathe (you will be looking right at the water). Any tilt of the head up for air should be very slight, if at all. This protects your neck from strain and injury. Practice this during the breast stroke arm part of the breast-a-fly (or during straight breast stroke) because it is less frighting, and you will figure out how much space you need between your face and the water to avoid inhaling it.

    6. When swimming butterfly, you need take a quick (sneaky) breath, making sure your face is back in the water by the time your hands emerge near your hips.

    You should focus on patiently holding the water in front of you with your hands until the undulation cycle lifts your chest and head to the surface. When your face is close to air, begin your arm pull, but the arms should not feel like they are pushing water behind you. It should feel like your body is slipping over your hands (again using the buoyancy of your lungs to your advantage). Take a quick breath (looking down or slightly forward), as hands slip under you, making sure that by the time your hands reach your hips, your head is already submerged again.

    This will save you tons of energy on your breathing and allow you to have a gentle, unhurried arm recovery.

    I recommend watching Total Immersion or Shaw Method videos. Here is a link to the Shaw Method: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QRElrG-NtQ

    If all else fails get a cheap underwater camera from amazon.com and have someone film you from the surface and under the water. Upload the videos to Youtube and post a link.
  • riftknight
    riftknight Posts: 21
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    I am a competitive swimmer (US Master) who studies Shaw Method and Total Immersion... I love to swim the butterfly. Here's what I recommend:

    1. Take it slow--nothing should be hurried, frantic or rushed. This is a beautiful, intelligent and graceful stroke. Try to feel that at all times!

    2. Work on body dolphin drills until you can really move across the water using only your body's undulation (refer to the Youtube link below).

    3. Incorporate a breath into the undulation using a small breast stroke scull in front of you.

    Try to get your undulations to a point where you can feel the water lifting your chest and head to air during each body undulation cycle. Your arms and legs should not be the main propulsive forces which bring you to air. That will tire you out! Your lungs are buoyant---let the natural buoyancy lift your chest and face up.

    4. Practice Breast-a-fly (breast stroke arms and breathing with a butterfly kick), breathing each stroke. Then alternate one butterfly arm recovery (non-breathing) with a breast arm recovery (breathing).

    5. When swimming full stroke, your face should be looking down, even when you breathe (you will be looking right at the water). Any tilt of the head up for air should be very slight, if at all. This protects your neck from strain and injury. Practice this during the breast stroke arm part of the breast-a-fly (or during straight breast stroke) because it is less frighting, and you will figure out how much space you need between your face and the water to avoid inhaling it.

    6. When swimming butterfly, you need take a quick (sneaky) breath, making sure your face is back in the water by the time your hands emerge near your hips.

    Incidentally, the Breast-a-fly techinique is also indespensible in learning to barrel-roll your breast-stroke. These are all excellent suggestions. The only thing that I would add, is to break the stroke down into it's most basic components and over exagerate -each component (big, deep dolphin kicks/ Slow and wide, graceful arm-strokes). Then slowly reincorporate them.

    I too was/am a competitive swimmer with a lean towards waterpolo. My primary strokes were Butterfly, all distances, and free-style, all distances. I also on occasion had to swim 100 and 200 IM and 100 breast.
  • DPernet
    DPernet Posts: 481 Member
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    My old coach used to make me do body dolphin drills underwater. I remember thinking at the time that if Patrick Duffy could do it, so could I ;p
  • gentlygently
    gentlygently Posts: 752 Member
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    Thank you all.

    Yes I have been looking at those shaw method videos - beautiful ! - my guess from your help is that I am on the right path (I am doing breast-fly for over 60m quite happily) and the bits I am not doing right are waiting for the natural chest rise which i have not considered at all, and hurrying the arms. I'll also try slowing down the overall dolphin action too to see if that helps me feel the chest rise and make a deeper wave.....

    Thanks for the offer of reviewing swimming videos - much appreciated. Sadly I swim at a local leisure centre when it is packed full of kids, so I cannot imagine they will allow it ...! But maybe I can talk one of the friendlier life guards into critiquing me on a quiet day.

    Hope to be able to post a positive progress report some time.
  • kreuzen
    kreuzen Posts: 188 Member
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    I'm a swim coach and have been a water safety instructor in the past. it's really difficult to know what to fix without seeing what you are doing.
    But remember to keep your undulations (dolphin rolls) smooth and fluid, using your sternum bone as the driving force behind your rolls (I say roll and not kick here because the kick starts with your sternum and finishes with your feet). I would tell kids it's like being a wet noodle in boiling water, as they would roll with there chests, their feet would wick the water.

    Practice your rolls with your hands up on the surface of the water in front of you (hand lead travel) to really help work this. You should feel like a little bird can walk from the nape of your neck to your lower back without getting wet. (Keep your head relaxed, but still).
    Butterfly is the hardest and takes the most insurance from any of the 4 main strokes.
    *to get the breathing down, it's all practice. However, you want to breathe as you are pulling your sternum back (arching your back and letting your hips drop just a little bit). During this, your hand might start going up a bit. Keep your head engaged and it should pop out of the water to "sneak" some air.
    *Your hands will pull down to the sides your butt. Force them to really pull the water and throw them forward, back into a "SUPERMAN" pose. As you do so, use you should be going back into the "downward" part of your roll.
    Repeat.

    Once you get the steps down, refine them. focus on making only small movements up and down and going toward your destination.

    ****I hope this helps... sorry if it is kind of winded or confusing****
    Best of luck.
    And when in doubt, tape yourself. :wink:
  • riftknight
    riftknight Posts: 21
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    My old coach used to make me do body dolphin drills underwater. I remember thinking at the time that if Patrick Duffy could do it, so could I ;p

    So true....and to come out of the water with perfect hair is an even more incredible feat. One coach I had used to have us crouch on the bottom of the lane and dive up and back down to the bottom to exagerate the roll. I do prefer doing the Patrick Duffy thing more though...
  • gentlygently
    gentlygently Posts: 752 Member
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    I thought I would update you all ... I certainly appreciated the advice.

    So I have gradually managed to increase the stamina/success of my butterfly and just before Christmas managed a full length (33metre) of a really slow stroke. And just today managed to do a reasonably paced one - so my first ever properly successful length of butterfly and I am chuffed!

    Ok it has taken ages, but I have been doing plenty of other things in my swimming time too ..

    I am only one of 3 adults I have ever seen doing fly at my pool and easily the oldest (48).

    On rereading this advice I am pretty sure my breathing is still a bit out so I'll think more on that so I can build it up even more. Here comes 2 continuous lengths!
  • electriq
    electriq Posts: 359 Member
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  • LIswimmer51
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    take it step by step, butterfly drills will work wonders in time....
    dolphin dives, texas kicks (butterfly kick on your back), streamlines, and slow paced butterfly.

    sources;
    I'm a butterfly competitor.
  • maggiewithfins
    maggiewithfins Posts: 75 Member
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    Love this thread! It's inspired me to work on some new goals with swimming when I'm getting bored of doing freestyle. At present I'm working on building distance for some longer races, but over winter (I'm in the Southern Hemisphere) I'll mix up with learning some new strokes.
    As an aside, someone did a 3.3km ocean swim using butterfly the whole way. Hard core!