Any tips for bargy horses?
Okapi42
Posts: 495 Member
Finally got Jack's condition up to where he needs to be, so on Monday, I'll be joining the dressage lesson the eventers at the barn go to. I'm sure it will be more of a workout for both of us than just hacking!
The trouble is, he often just stops and refuses to go forward at all, and he's rather bargy on the ground - he'll pull the rope out of my hands or walk over the top of me if I let him. And he has no respect for personal space. We've been doing groundwork, which has helped (especially backing up), but I don't want to disrupt the lesson too much. So any tips for winning the constant battle of wills?
The trouble is, he often just stops and refuses to go forward at all, and he's rather bargy on the ground - he'll pull the rope out of my hands or walk over the top of me if I let him. And he has no respect for personal space. We've been doing groundwork, which has helped (especially backing up), but I don't want to disrupt the lesson too much. So any tips for winning the constant battle of wills?
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My mare was also very pushy - and would also threaten to bite. Groundwork, groundwork groundwork has been the only thing that has made a difference. I make sure that we do at least 15 minutes of ground work before any lesson, or even a hack. I am a big believer in natural horsemanship principles - it's made a huge difference in my relationship with Jazzi. While she's not perfect, she's 100% better - she actually respects my space and is so much lighter and responsive. I no longer have pulling matches, and she is actually far more relaxed. It won't solve your problems immediately but if you stick with it, you will be amazed!!0
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Thanks. I'll try to make sure I get my groundwork in right before the lesson, but it might be difficult because we trailer in for it. But it also seems to help him accept having his girth tightened better, he hates that!0
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Groundwork. I learned clicker training from Alex Kurland. The emphasis on MY space features in her foundation work. So much so, that if I walk towards my horses head as if I am passing, he will courteously back out of my way. Alex also spend a lot of time on Rope Work. It would take quite a bit to exalting in words, but I would be glad to put a little video up on YOU TUBE. I have a Not Ready For Prime Time over view on clicker on You Tube now. Did it just for fun. But I think you will see how respectful my horse it.
And what I love is that he is offering the behavior; I am not demanding it.. I am not a fan of jiggling the rope at the horse as Pat Parelli teaches (sorry to the fans) I wouldn't like someone to do that that to me.
of course if I am going to get hurt, I am fine flicking a lot more than a rope! Alex has very good DVDs too. I have seen her students turn around horses that quite frankly I would have put down! Now I have learned with patience, we can probably retrain any horse, even something nuts.
it's like clicker- training changes up the game and horses begin to listen and love the work! it may also be that clicker turns people into astute trainers as you look for the tiniest of tries to click and reward.
let us know what you do. Barging is critical to deal with though, IMHO.0 -
Thanks - I think that might be a good approach, and have just ordered a clicker training book. I'd been considering it anyway; he's obviously intelligent but bored and so he comes up with mischief to get into...0
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I might have said this before, but one thing that is really great about clicker, is that it changes the game. Horses just start over. It is like a reset button!
I have a friend who is bringing along a mess of a three year old, Arab, not handled and suffered some abuse. My friend is young, this is her first horse. They are basically a train wreck waiting to happen. I can see that in spite of,the relationship she has built, he is 100% protective of his back. clearly he experienced harsh treatment as a 2 year old...he has a scar to prove it. She just is not open to anything but what the farm owner says.
I am borrowing Alex's DVD which instead of saddling a scared horses, gets the horse to touch or Target the saddle with his back. Isn't that brilliant. Horse was totally willing to play that game!
I just hope my friend isn't seriously injured. As gently as possible I tried pointing put that the farm owner has never ended up what I would consider a safely, trained horse. But she is in adoration mode still. I guess we have to allow our friends their own journey.
Online Katie Bartlett has many nice articles and she would help if you have questions. she is on Facebook too. She was basically my instructor although I did make it to a few of Alex's clinics and,have her books and some DVDs.
Good Luck!0 -
Thanks, I'll look them up.
Pity she's not taking advice. That's pretty much the reason I stopped riding for the guy I was riding for. He didn't believe in horsemanship. For one thing, he used the same saddle on every horse (because it had big stirrups!) and it was so much too wide on the youngsters that he kept losing his saddle pad while cantering. Then he would kick them when they didn't want to be saddled.0 -
Monty Roberts head collar all the way and lots of groundwork. My mare is a massive 16.1hh Shire x and she used to be a nightmare for barging. I used to open the door and before i could get in her stable she was half way down the drive. Now i open the door ask her to wait and i walk out first and then she follows.
She gets bargy in the field when in season and tends to pull the rope out my hands if given the chance but with the Monty Roberts Dully halter i am able to keep her under control. Its taken 4/5 years to get this far with her though. She was from an abusive background and not treated very nice at all. So keep with it, they all have memories that kick in when you least expect it and some are just rude, but they are worth the whole world. Another trick i use as a reward is polos or horse treats. Ask your horse to do something and if they do it correctly then reward them. Dont use too many only 1 or 2 else the weight creeps up a little.
Good Luck
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He didn't believe in horsemanship. For one thing, he used the same saddle on every horse (because it had big stirrups!) and it was so much too wide on the youngsters that he kept losing his saddle pad while cantering. Then he would kick them when they didn't want to be saddled.
Oh those poor horses. People can be so dense. It's a wonder the horses tolerate us!
I picked up a free handout at the feed store last night. Front page, 2 drafts with carriage. The Horrible shoeing job was closing in on abusive! I have no doubt the horses are both missing a good bit of their coffin bones.
I have to avoid that stuff. It makes me crazy.
Delighted you left. there is nothing worse than boarding with idiots who injure horses! Plain idiots I can take, as long as they just hurt themselves, LOL0 -
Their feet were all fine - he's a farrier and keeps them all barefoot with boots for roadwork. It's the rest of them that was the problem!
Had a really good groundwork session today, totally unplanned. I got Jack out to ride him in the paddock and he nearly ran over the top of me and dragged me into the next box over because there was hay there. (Luckily, it was otherwise empty.) And his own box looked like the owner hadn't been round the entire week. So I decided to lunge him first. Only he hates the lunge, and will fight it, and I didn't want him all wound up before I got on.
So I just went out with him in nothing but a knotted headcollar and leadrope, let him into the paddock, took the rope off and started chasing him around to get the bucks out. He did about two circuits, and then I noticed that he *wasn't* going to the far end. He was circling me, just as close as I'd let him, and kept trying to break into my space, just like he does on the lunge. He obviously wanted to be near me, but not on my terms.
So I decided it was a learning opportunity.
I chased him round and round for 20 minutes, until he finally dropped his head and *asked* to be let into my space. So I let him. Scratched him all over, made a fuss over him, made him back off and yield in different directions, and then when I walked off, he followed. We did serpentine loops all over. Until he tried to stick his big head in my pocket to get at the mints, and I immediately chased him off and made him run and run again. He didn't like that - he stamped and wheeled and tried to kick me, but I stuck my ground and made him run until he asked nicely whether he could approach, then let him in. Scratched him, made him follow and back up, etc, until he tried to invade my space again.
And so on and so forth. It was exhausting, but I feel we made pretty good progress. When I brought him inside, he tried to run over me again to get at his haynet, but I made him back off and wait without too much of an argument that time...
I think that this entire time, the lunge line has been in our way - he's not moving quietly enough to get any benefit from being worked on a lunge. And without it, it's *much* easier to make him go away when he's being pushy, because I can send him off without worrying whether it'll be torn out of my hands or get tangled somewhere.
It was quite an epiphany!0
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