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Stronglifts 5x5 vs All Pro's beginners routine

pandorakick
pandorakick Posts: 901 Member
edited January 11 in Social Groups
I've seen both Stronglifts 5x5 and All Pro's beginners routine recommended for people wanting to start weight lifting. Can you perhaps tell me why you would recommend one over the other?

In my particular case I would have to adept excercises to the dumbbell equivalents. I don't have place for a barbell and prefer working out at home over going to the gym. Would this perhaps tip the scale in favor of either Stronglifts or All Pro's routine?

Looking forward to your opinions on this!

Replies

  • tameko2
    tameko2 Posts: 31,634 Member
    I have a response to this but I'm in a super long meeting. I thinks there's a third option - be back in a few hours
  • tameko2
    tameko2 Posts: 31,634 Member
    **** sorry I thought this was in the sl group rather than Sara and ss'a group. I will let them respond
  • pandorakick
    pandorakick Posts: 901 Member
    I would love to hear about a possible 3rd option as well!
  • oldernotwiser
    oldernotwiser Posts: 175 Member
    Mark Rippetoe has a program for beginners called Starting Strength that is well thought of. This link will take you to a website that compares both.

    http://spotmebro.com/starting-strength-vs-stronglifts-5x5/
  • tameko2
    tameko2 Posts: 31,634 Member
    Mark Rippetoe has a program for beginners called Starting Strength that is well thought of. This link will take you to a website that compares both.

    http://spotmebro.com/starting-strength-vs-stronglifts-5x5/

    I personally consider SL and SS more or less the same program, frankly. I mean, yes, they are SLIGHTLY different, but for the purposes of this particular question I'd call them equal.

    #tamekosucksatstayingoutofthreads
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    Tagging to respond to later.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    Tagging to follow replies - interested in Sara & SideSteel's responses.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    My thoughts on this, and apologies for the scattered presentation of them, and I am sure SideSteel will weigh in with his:


    - All Pro has more volume, which, depending on energy levels, can be either a good thing or a bad thing
    - All Pro has a total higher rep range so will be more hypertrophy and less strength range. As it starts off at a higher rep range I actually think this is preferable for beginners anyway. It gives you a chance to get your form down but still get a decent volume of work done.
    - You will find more people doing Stronglifts on here so it has more people being able to answer questions about it (although there is a good knowledge base on bb.com for All Pro from the looks of it)
    - I am not a huge fan of having scheduled decreasing weight through the week without increasing reps as you have in All Pro, however, on the flip side, doing deadlifts and squats 3 x a week for full sets can be really taxing on your CNS (which is mitigated to a degree by being at a higher rep range)


    It really comes down to goals, energy levels, available time etc etc
  • pandorakick
    pandorakick Posts: 901 Member
    Thank you for your reply Sara.

    My goals have shifted from weightloss to getting stronger and looking better.
    In the mornings I have about an hour available for working out. Given the amount of sets and reps, Stronglifts seems to be the more economic one time-wise.

    For background information: According to the online calculator I've been using, my bodyfat has decreased from about 35% to currently 22.2%. I wouldn't mind it getting it a bit lower to about 20%, but that's not my main focus. I've upped my calorie intake the last few months very slowly to maintenance. I'm not sure whether I've found the "sweet spot" for that yet, will evaluate my current intake in a month. I'm 34 years old, 1.65 m and currently weigh 57.25 kg.
    I'm currently doing ChaLean extreme, and I want to start "real" weight lifting after that in about 3 weeks.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    My thoughts on this, and apologies for the scattered presentation of them, and I am sure SideSteel will weigh in with his:


    - All Pro has more volume, which, depending on energy levels, can be either a good thing or a bad thing
    - All Pro has a total higher rep range so will be more hypertrophy and less strength range. As it starts off at a higher rep range I actually think this is preferable for beginners anyway. It gives you a chance to get your form down but still get a decent volume of work done.
    - You will find more people doing Stronglifts on here so it has more people being able to answer questions about it (although there is a good knowledge base on bb.com for All Pro from the looks of it)
    - I am not a huge fan of having scheduled decreasing weight through the week without increasing reps as you have in All Pro, however, on the flip side, doing deadlifts and squats 3 x a week for full sets can be really taxing on your CNS (which is mitigated to a degree by being at a higher rep range)


    It really comes down to goals, energy levels, available time etc etc
    Sara - just to clarify one small point via the above (bolded) passage - you don't do conventional deads on All Pro's routine....it's stiff-legged deadlifts. Many people have asked him if they could do DL instead of SLDL and he explicitly recommends against it, for the exact reason you discussed above.

    I get what you mean about scheduled decreasing weight through the week without altering rep ranges. He discusses the reasons for it and it makes sense, but I have two issues with it - one psychological and one physical. The psychological issue is that I can't help but feel that I'm cheating my progress on the lighter days by not pushing as hard (I try to compensate for it by decreasing rest periods between sets). The physical one is that, after the medium and light days, the weights feel much heavier to me on the next Monday's "heavy day" because I haven't pushed the full weight in a week and am now going up one rep. For both of those reasons, I find myself "cheating" on the heavier side with the weights on the lighter days - staying closer to the "heavy day" weights than the recommended decreases.

    On the positive side, I like the higher volume and rep ranges better than the 5x5 routines, especially since I'm targeting hypertrophy/fat loss more so than strength (yes, even knowing that hypertrophy isn't going to happen to any appreciable extent while in a deficit). The workout takes just under an hour to complete, so energy issues aren't a problem.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    My thoughts on this, and apologies for the scattered presentation of them, and I am sure SideSteel will weigh in with his:


    - All Pro has more volume, which, depending on energy levels, can be either a good thing or a bad thing
    - All Pro has a total higher rep range so will be more hypertrophy and less strength range. As it starts off at a higher rep range I actually think this is preferable for beginners anyway. It gives you a chance to get your form down but still get a decent volume of work done.
    - You will find more people doing Stronglifts on here so it has more people being able to answer questions about it (although there is a good knowledge base on bb.com for All Pro from the looks of it)
    - I am not a huge fan of having scheduled decreasing weight through the week without increasing reps as you have in All Pro, however, on the flip side, doing deadlifts and squats 3 x a week for full sets can be really taxing on your CNS (which is mitigated to a degree by being at a higher rep range)


    It really comes down to goals, energy levels, available time etc etc
    Sara - just to clarify one small point via the above (bolded) passage - you don't do conventional deads on All Pro's routine....it's stiff-legged deadlifts. Many people have asked him if they could do DL instead of SLDL and he explicitly recommends against it, for the exact reason you discussed above.

    I get what you mean about scheduled decreasing weight through the week without altering rep ranges. He discusses the reasons for it and it makes sense, but I have two issues with it - one psychological and one physical. The psychological issue is that I can't help but feel that I'm cheating my progress on the lighter days by not pushing as hard (I try to compensate for it by decreasing rest periods between sets). The physical one is that, after the medium and light days, the weights feel much heavier to me on the next Monday's "heavy day" because I haven't pushed the full weight in a week and am now going up one rep. For both of those reasons, I find myself "cheating" on the heavier side with the weights on the lighter days - staying closer to the "heavy day" weights than the recommended decreases.

    On the positive side, I like the higher volume and rep ranges better than the 5x5 routines, especially since I'm targeting hypertrophy/fat loss more so than strength (yes, even knowing that hypertrophy isn't going to happen to any appreciable extent while in a deficit). The workout takes just under an hour to complete, so energy issues aren't a problem.

    Thanks for that. I was actually going to make a comment about why SLDL rather than conventional but thought that my personal preference for conventional may have been biasing my comment so left it out. That makes more sense.

    Also, I cannot see any issues with either regarding LBM maintenance so, to me, that aspect is a wash.
  • pandorakick
    pandorakick Posts: 901 Member
    It is very interesting to read your points of view on this, Sara and AnvilHead! I hadn't considered the possible psychological apects of a program with decreasing weights during the week.
  • whiteheaddg
    whiteheaddg Posts: 325 Member
    My thoughts on this, and apologies for the scattered presentation of them, and I am sure SideSteel will weigh in with his:


    - All Pro has more volume, which, depending on energy levels, can be either a good thing or a bad thing
    - All Pro has a total higher rep range so will be more hypertrophy and less strength range. As it starts off at a higher rep range I actually think this is preferable for beginners anyway. It gives you a chance to get your form down but still get a decent volume of work done.
    - You will find more people doing Stronglifts on here so it has more people being able to answer questions about it (although there is a good knowledge base on bb.com for All Pro from the looks of it)
    - I am not a huge fan of having scheduled decreasing weight through the week without increasing reps as you have in All Pro, however, on the flip side, doing deadlifts and squats 3 x a week for full sets can be really taxing on your CNS (which is mitigated to a degree by being at a higher rep range)


    It really comes down to goals, energy levels, available time etc etc
    Sara - just to clarify one small point via the above (bolded) passage - you don't do conventional deads on All Pro's routine....it's stiff-legged deadlifts. Many people have asked him if they could do DL instead of SLDL and he explicitly recommends against it, for the exact reason you discussed above.

    I get what you mean about scheduled decreasing weight through the week without altering rep ranges. He discusses the reasons for it and it makes sense, but I have two issues with it - one psychological and one physical. The psychological issue is that I can't help but feel that I'm cheating my progress on the lighter days by not pushing as hard (I try to compensate for it by decreasing rest periods between sets). The physical one is that, after the medium and light days, the weights feel much heavier to me on the next Monday's "heavy day" because I haven't pushed the full weight in a week and am now going up one rep. For both of those reasons, I find myself "cheating" on the heavier side with the weights on the lighter days - staying closer to the "heavy day" weights than the recommended decreases.

    On the positive side, I like the higher volume and rep ranges better than the 5x5 routines, especially since I'm targeting hypertrophy/fat loss more so than strength (yes, even knowing that hypertrophy isn't going to happen to any appreciable extent while in a deficit). The workout takes just under an hour to complete, so energy issues aren't a problem.

    ^ Exactly how I approach it. I usually stick within guidelines on medium days, but then make a judgement call on the light days. If I'm feeling beat down on a certain exercise I'll stick to the plan (-20% cycle working weight), otherwise I'll treat it as a another medium day. I also add push-ups/sit-ups to the end of my light day since I'm evaulated on those twice annually and need to keep the numbers up.

    Personally, I'm in cycle 5 now and the heavy days are exhausting (and I'm old). I often feel like I'm expending the same effort on the medium days as I do on the heavy ones. I'm not sure if I could stick with a program that had me pushing full working weight 3x week on the same muscle groups.

    Good luck!
  • pandorakick
    pandorakick Posts: 901 Member
    Thank you for your view on this Whiteheaddg!
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member


    ^ Exactly how I approach it. I usually stick within guidelines on medium days, but then make a judgement call on the light days. If I'm feeling beat down on a certain exercise I'll stick to the plan (-20% cycle working weight), otherwise I'll treat it as a another medium day. I also add push-ups/sit-ups to the end of my light day since I'm evaulated on those twice annually and need to keep the numbers up.

    Personally, I'm in cycle 5 now and the heavy days are exhausting (and I'm old). I often feel like I'm expending the same effort on the medium days as I do on the heavy ones. I'm not sure if I could stick with a program that had me pushing full working weight 3x week on the same muscle groups.

    Good luck!


    Pfft with the old :happy:
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    Pfft with the old :happy:
    I agree, Sara - hell, I've got 9 years on him, what does that make me? :bigsmile:
  • Will_Thrust_For_Candy
    Will_Thrust_For_Candy Posts: 6,109 Member
    I will chime in purely from a newbie with SL experience. I am currently in my 10th week of the program and I absolutely love it. I will do another cycle after this one....HOWEVER.....the program does get very exhausting as you progress in your weights. I love that I have gotten stronger and the progression is hugely motivating to me but even at this point, with my squat being only at 130, I'm finding it very tiring and I most certainly need my rest days between workouts. It's not that I *can't* do it....but it is certainly pushing me.

    Hearing more about All-Pro's routine is certainly interesting, and intriguing, as I'm already giving thought to what my next move will be.....3 months down the road :laugh:

    ETA: SL is also designed as a barbell routine. I don't know that dumbbells would work well as you progress. Sorry, just remembered that you had mentioned that in your original post (at least I think you did....it's been a long Monday :smile: )
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    I'll offer this - when All Pro tells you to be conservative with your weight selection, he ain't kidding. He recommends using your 10RM weight to start with - the first two weeks at 8 and 9 reps feel relatively easy, the 10-rep week (this week for me) gets increasingly harder, and the 11- and 12-rep weeks are where you're more than happy to take advantage of the medium and light days - it's a grind! Don't start off with the weight you've been pulling on a 5x5 program - you'll be buried real quickly as the reps increase.

    For anyone who's thinking of starting this routine at some point - take one workout beforehand to establish your realistic 10RM in each of the lifts and start there. Go ahead and laugh at how easy it is for the first two weeks....then see if you're still laughing on your "heavy" day of week 5 at 12 reps. :bigsmile:

    One piece of genius is the way you cycle...if you make all your lifts in week 12, you start the next cycle by increasing your weights by 10% and dropping reps back to 8. Even though you're lifting 10% heavier, it feels much easier because of the drop in reps. And then if you sit and do the math, you realize that your "medium" days in the 2nd cycle were your "heavy" days in the previous cycle.
  • whiteheaddg
    whiteheaddg Posts: 325 Member
    Pfft with the old :happy:
    I agree, Sara - hell, I've got 9 years on him, what does that make me? :bigsmile:
    older :laugh:
This discussion has been closed.