Unsure of goals :-S

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zen82
zen82 Posts: 81 Member
Hi, am posting here after Sarah suggested starting a topic would be the best place... Basically I am veering off track and think i need to use this time to consider where I want the track to actually be. I ramble a lot so apologies for the length of post but would really value any thoughts/input because I want to get back to the feeling that I am progressing!

Me: I'm 5'2", 30, female, and weigh somewhere around 107-109lbs but the past few days/weeks have been all over the place after I got a bad bout of norovirus (went down to 106, bobbed up, down again, up again). Yesterday I was 108, today 109, 2-3 days ago I was 106.7. Not a clue. I'm calling it 108 as far as MFP is concerned atm. I got to my original goal of 110 sometime around September or October (can't remember exactly) but also have bobbed up and down between 108-112 since then (my guess is this is normal for maintenance but I still have to work on myself not to get upset over 110). Rationally, I know weight is just a number, and am working on remembering this! What I actually want is to be strong, fit, and be able to eat loads and enjoy it.

I started off being about 117 in May when I came back to trying to sort my fitness out. I was really flabby and fed up with how I looked and something finally snapped and I went swimming. A lot. Then started doing DVDs, and then got some free gym trials and eventually got the money together for a gym membership from September. I started running in late July... fell in love with running and did my first 10km race in November. I started having pt sessions to learn how to do "proper" weight lifting from about October (though not every week as £££) so had been doing back and front squats, deadlifts, and attempting to do OHPs and push presses (I'm awful at OHPs!) until I hurt my knee... On a normal week I'd be inth e gym 3 times but not necessarily doing the "proper" weights if any of the following got in the way: busy-ness of weights area; intimidating arses in the weights area (working on this); me being pushed for time. In the case of those, I'd do a workout using the weights machines my PT hates the least, trying to do as heavy as I can for sets of 5 reps (usually 3-5 sets, again time dependent). I've been working on the idea that something is always better than nothing.

Running-wise, I'm training for a half marathon on 3rd March but got waylaid for about 3 weeks from injury/norovirus). Now back into 4 runs a week: one long (tomorrow will be 8 miles - I hope!), one tempo/speed session (about 30-40 mins), and a couple of "easy runs" (this week it was one at 5ish, one at 4ish miles).

I am probably also ok to start back on the "proper" weights now but my heart sinks a little at the thought I reckon I've become a weed in the intervening time. I was using gym machines to work out my abs and upper body while recovering from the knee thing, but in the last couple of weeks I've also been signed off with stress which means I'm not in my workplace, which is where the gym is, so have only been able to go in a couple of times. So I haven't done as much exercise in the past few weeks, and where I haven't always managed to get to the gym I've either done a little more running/walking or an exercise DVD (a Davina McCall one) which has loads of bodyweight squats and lunges and some dumbbell work (but I only have one set of 4kg dumbbells so this is not exactly "heavy" - though again, better than nothing was my reasoning!).

There are several things I don't know how to address:

1) How much do I actually want to weigh -- OR -- is that even my goal?!? It is easier to get a weight reading than a decent bf% reading, which is why I think I come back to the weight number (more trackable)... I do take measurements but I expand and contract in the waist department pretty much a million times per day... I want to keep track of *something* but bf% is also a fickle measurement given my lack of a personal bodpod :-S.

2) How to balance running, weight training, and other training - I think 4 runs a week and 3 weights sessions would be ideal, but I'd have to do maybe an upper body day on the same day as an easier run to allow myself a rest day. On a good week this is do-able, and enjoyable, but there are bad weeks. Could do with ideas for ways to manage difficulty exercising as planned when on the go (eg travelling for work etc). I often manage to find a way but get stressed about it, which is the opposite of my intentions! I have another 1/2 mara lined up in Oct, so will have a short break from Half training in between, where I'm thinking of focusing on 10km races and improving my speed and hill work and dealing with strengthening my legs.

3) What bl**dy approach to take to weight training. I've been messing about with it really. To begin with I think it's fine to have focused on technique (eg my PT is pretty happy with my squat technique, though my OHPs are pathetic and not aided by a recurring rotator cuff issue) but now I need at least a basic programme to follow. I downloaded 5x5 and got stuck immediately because I haven't been shown how to do bench presses properly because my PT "disagrees" with them. I rate him generally but don't get this aversion... Also, I don't like how the dude is all about "get women with musclez" and how inflexible it is. I may not always be able to do 3 sessions a week - one or more might be a "make do" session and I need strategies for that whatever the regime I end up following.

4) How much to eat - boring, perennial question I know. I've been eating loads, and one of the big changes I have made is to focus on getting "more protein". Focusing on getting "less" anything is a difficult thing for me as it reminds me of an ED time from late teens/early 20s and I just find it unhelpful. I always do better on focusing on doing positive things if that makes sense. I have played around with the spreadsheet Heybales made for the IPOARM group, but I can't seem to identify an accurate bf% which seems needed for accuracy (estimates from calculators say 18%, am skinny but not that skinny judging by pics of women in the various ranges that seem to get posted on MFP/FB; scales and handheld things say between 20-26%, and a calipers measurement I had done about 6 weeks ago said 23% but she didn't seem confident in how to do it). I also have the issue that my routine keeps getting upset by injury or illness or stress (or all three), so decided it was easier to use an MFP base level and eat back calories. I'd started using sedentary and eating back to leave a deficit then after getting to goal even eating back all exercise led to weight loss. So I bumped MFP to lightly active and eating back. I do eat over, and under sometimes, and it's harder for me to stick to anything when stressed but doing my best and again, at least trying to get a decent level of protein and calcium as positive efforts.

So, again, sorry for the long post. But I'm fed up with feeling like I'm just "patching" together a routine all the time. I could do with input on a weights regime that won't irritate me and is flexible-ish, and also I probably need to recognise the worry in myself that I will magically give up all exercise if I have a bad week. I have been sticking to doing *something* even through injury etc so am trying to give myself credit for that where it's due... And maybe I need to make room for some "fun" classes etc?! And wtf to do about how much to eat. I have got a lot of benefits from logging but sometimes can't help thinking it makes me rebel too, of I'm low.

Replies

  • zen82
    zen82 Posts: 81 Member
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    I knew I wrote too much! :-/
  • jcolier
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    Hey... not sure of your goals either - you look pretty good in your profile pic!

    I lift weights 4 times a week, and do cardio 3 times a week, so i dont think you are over-doing it, unless you get injured. If you are having trouble recuperating, maybe cut out a day for rest?

    I find stress keeps me from losing weight, which is probably why I've been stuck where I am for the past couple of years. Seems you might be stressed a bit there?

    Your food diary looks ok-ish... you have a thing for smarties? Maybe cut back on the candy / sugar / carbs and eat more protein / natural foods for a few weeks, see if that helps.

    Just keep on going, and good luck!
  • zen82
    zen82 Posts: 81 Member
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    Yep, I'm signed off work for stress for another week :-S. I tend to find I eat less sugar when I eat more protein, but the minute I decide "oh, I must not eat so much sugar" I want more. I can't do the restricting thing, it makes me ill. So when my diary looks "good" you can tell I'm not injured, bit less stressed than normal, and happy with training. Mind you even then I still eat at least some sugar. I am not a candidate for "eating clean" or anything that invites me to obsess. Some people might manage it healthily but that would be way too many triggers for me!
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Hold up!

    =)

    Lets pause.


    First of all, look in the mirror and decide what you want.
    Next, I want you to tell me what you enjoy doing for training.

    That's it.

    Come back with a genuine answer to the above two questions (well, statements?) and lets start from that point, shall we?
  • Bealach_Bug
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    Zen82, this could me me talking. I really identify with your post

    SS - what a brilliant answer I can feel light bulbs popping above my head............thank you
  • elizabethis
    elizabethis Posts: 155 Member
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    I think it sounds like a mostly mental thing for you. In order to stay the course, as far as good nutrition and fitness, I think it's vital we do active things we enjoy and eat food we enjoy. Otherwise, it's too easy to get off course, or to still be on course (which you are), but kind of waffling and frustrated. My suggestion is to try some new activities (as you alluded to). Maybe weight lifting isn't something you are really going to enjoy long term. If not, don't force yourself to do it. Use body weight exercises at home for a change. OR, maybe you just need a complete break from lifting at the gym. I've read that it is good to take a week off every so often anyway. I'm not at my goal yet, but I know I will need to set some other types of goals and to mix things up to stay motivated and pushing forward. If you like running, focus on this. It sounds to me as if you're trying to do too many things because you maybe "should". Cut back to what you WANT to focus on and give yourself a break!
  • zen82
    zen82 Posts: 81 Member
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    Hold up!

    =)

    Lets pause.


    First of all, look in the mirror and decide what you want.
    Next, I want you to tell me what you enjoy doing for training.

    That's it.

    Come back with a genuine answer to the above two questions (well, statements?) and lets start from that point, shall we?

    Ok.. Mirror-wise: would like a bit more definition in the old muscles department (they're peeking out, would like a bit more)

    <3<3 LOVE running <3<3 <-- Have been told no more than 4 runs per week by physio, though, and attempting to follow this :-)

    *Usually* love the gym (in this I include weights - I was really enjoying squats and deadlifts before I effed my knee up - huge sense of achievement from lifting things up and putting them down) but get murderous when it's too busy to do what I want to do (and can't always manage to go when it's quiet because work + stress = argh, and the gits only open til 5.30 at the weekend)

    (Sidebar: also love dancing, but don't get to do it much (unless you count "by accident", which happens) and don't consider it "training" - but been wondering about an occasional dance based class if I can get to any)

    I also love eating...

    I think it sounds like a mostly mental thing for you. In order to stay the course, as far as good nutrition and fitness, I think it's vital we do active things we enjoy and eat food we enjoy. Otherwise, it's too easy to get off course, or to still be on course (which you are), but kind of waffling and frustrated. My suggestion is to try some new activities (as you alluded to). Maybe weight lifting isn't something you are really going to enjoy long term. If not, don't force yourself to do it. Use body weight exercises at home for a change. OR, maybe you just need a complete break from lifting at the gym. I've read that it is good to take a week off every so often anyway. I'm not at my goal yet, but I know I will need to set some other types of goals and to mix things up to stay motivated and pushing forward. If you like running, focus on this. It sounds to me as if you're trying to do too many things because you maybe "should". Cut back to what you WANT to focus on and give yourself a break!

    I think you're right about body weight stuff for at home as a change or at least, if getting to the gym is difficult on a given day - or say I am away with work, as at least I always have my body with me?! I've ended up taking time off through norovirus and stuff, so keen to get back into it all... I think the frustration largely comes from getting interrupted by injuries, though at least am starting to feel like the physio and I are getting to the bottom of this - turns out I have hypermobility :-S.
  • zen82
    zen82 Posts: 81 Member
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    Hey where did everyone go? :)
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Hey where did everyone go? :)

    Sara or I will return to this as soon as we can :)
  • missym357
    missym357 Posts: 210 Member
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    I can really relate to your post, zen82. I always struggle with goals, because my goals are not weight related, or even bodyfat related- so there aren't measurable things that keep me going. I also am careful about my food goals (I don't even log food) because while I don't have a disordered eating past, I do believe I have a personality type that could fall into disordered patterns- perfectionist, goal-oriented, type-A personality with a bit of a dark side that can come out when stressed- and my life has it's share of stress in it- so I proactively work towards keeping myself in a positive state of mind- which brings me to what drives me.

    My primary motivation is to keep myself happy and healthy. I do things that give me satisfaction and keep me in a good place. That is it. So the questions that SS posed to you are right on the mark as far as I'm concerned.

    You love to run- so I would make that my focus with speed, distance, and perhaps race goals. You enjoy weight training: that is good- it will help you to preserve muscle which will help you have more visible muscles (what you want)....you enjoy dancing: when/if you find yourself not as excited about what you are doing or want to try something new, find a dance class, zumba class, etc and make it a part of your week! With nutrition, set positive goals for yourself- improving fruit/veggie consumption, getting enough protein, fiber, etc....
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Just looking at this logically and from sort of a birds eye view:

    - it sounds to me like you should run 4 days per week because you love running and you love eating and those two things pair up well.

    - it sounds to me like you enjoy lifting so you should do "some" resistance training and this will also help retain lbm.

    - obviously you need to choose exercises that won't aggravate your knee.

    -your intake should match up to your body composition goals. For you that will likely be at or slighty below TDEE.


    One of us will reply in more detail but the above is sort of a poorly punctuated (phone typing ftw) macro view of things from what I'm getting out of your posts.
  • zen82
    zen82 Posts: 81 Member
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    I can really relate to your post, zen82. I always struggle with goals, because my goals are not weight related, or even bodyfat related- so there aren't measurable things that keep me going. I also am careful about my food goals (I don't even log food) because while I don't have a disordered eating past, I do believe I have a personality type that could fall into disordered patterns- perfectionist, goal-oriented, type-A personality with a bit of a dark side that can come out when stressed- and my life has it's share of stress in it- so I proactively work towards keeping myself in a positive state of mind- which brings me to what drives me.

    My primary motivation is to keep myself happy and healthy. I do things that give me satisfaction and keep me in a good place. That is it. So the questions that SS posed to you are right on the mark as far as I'm concerned.

    You love to run- so I would make that my focus with speed, distance, and perhaps race goals. You enjoy weight training: that is good- it will help you to preserve muscle which will help you have more visible muscles (what you want)....you enjoy dancing: when/if you find yourself not as excited about what you are doing or want to try something new, find a dance class, zumba class, etc and make it a part of your week! With nutrition, set positive goals for yourself- improving fruit/veggie consumption, getting enough protein, fiber, etc....

    Thanks and *solidarity* on the goal tracking issue. You're right, and those are the reasons I do things, and running goals are useful but also I am aware I keep injuring myself when I overtrain so can't get too hung up on progressing every single week - some weeks it will have to be enough that I got round without injuring myself again! Hopefully when my referral for podiatry and biomechanics comes through I'll get some more answers about my knees/hips/ankles... I've seen a couple of physios who seem to identify the same overall problem but are attributing it to different causes. One - my friend - thinks I have such weird ankles he's after showing them to an orthopaedic consultant! :-S

    I think you're right about trying new things and just trying to work on keeping myself in the good frame of mind - I definitely have that same kind of personality!
  • zen82
    zen82 Posts: 81 Member
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    Just looking at this logically and from sort of a birds eye view:

    - it sounds to me like you should run 4 days per week because you love running and you love eating and those two things pair up well.

    - it sounds to me like you enjoy lifting so you should do "some" resistance training and this will also help retain lbm.

    - obviously you need to choose exercises that won't aggravate your knee.

    -your intake should match up to your body composition goals. For you that will likely be at or slighty below TDEE.


    One of us will reply in more detail but the above is sort of a poorly punctuated (phone typing ftw) macro view of things from what I'm getting out of your posts.

    Thanks. I think the eating thing is my biggest faff/challenge. I am not good at the "be good" mindset because it leads to obsessing, so my more recent behaviour (that led to weight gain in the first place) was going the opposite way. But exercising etc has really helped me since May, and has also helped me deal with the food guilt things.

    I do feel a lot better and balanced now *overall* but am aware I have been having a sugar fest since forever lately -- upped protein though, which is a success. I find it hard to stick to my MFP based eating goals partly because of stress lately but also because I don't know if it's 'right' anyway - so it all gets a bit circular. I'm not sure whether to worry or not, so I worry about worrying!

    Re weights, I think my knee ought to be ok if I take it carefully and concentrate on form. My main issue is still my biomechanics for running (and I walk funny too, it seems...) but static stuff is at least easier to focus on and control. But still not sure what to aim for... a friend has recommended Nia Shanks (not sure if anyone has said much about her on forums, was planning a snoop later) so I am going to look into that - seems you can do bodyweight versions if no access to weights which might help give me a more transferable/portable regime?!

    But also I guess I still think "what should I weigh?" / "what bodyfat am I and what do I want to be that's achievable?" and just don't know for sure at all on any of those counts!
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    But also I guess I still think "what should I weigh?" / "what bodyfat am I and what do I want to be that's achievable?" and just don't know for sure at all on any of those counts!

    You don't need to know any of the above as long as you own a mirror and can be honest with yourself.
  • zen82
    zen82 Posts: 81 Member
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    But also I guess I still think "what should I weigh?" / "what bodyfat am I and what do I want to be that's achievable?" and just don't know for sure at all on any of those counts!

    You don't need to know any of the above as long as you own a mirror and can be honest with yourself.

    This may sound stupid, but bear in mind I rent as a lodger and have a tiny room: the only way I can look at my body in the mirror is by standing on top of the loo with the lid down and looking at the one across the bathroom above the sink - which is a bit of a distance away and in bad light. There are gym mirrors but I try to not look too interested in them because of the whole poser thing :-S

    I do take the point, and it's a good one... but I think I am capable of hating what I see in the mirror or thinking it's ok depending on the mood I'm in. So I guess I'm not especially good at being realistic with myself -- til hitting goal I was using the objective "yes but your weight is gradually going down and you're doing it at a sensible rate" to reason myself out of stupidity about whether or not I looked ok.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    But also I guess I still think "what should I weigh?" / "what bodyfat am I and what do I want to be that's achievable?" and just don't know for sure at all on any of those counts!

    You don't need to know any of the above as long as you own a mirror and can be honest with yourself.

    This may sound stupid, but bear in mind I rent as a lodger and have a tiny room: the only way I can look at my body in the mirror is by standing on top of the loo with the lid down and looking at the one across the bathroom above the sink - which is a bit of a distance away and in bad light. There are gym mirrors but I try to not look too interested in them because of the whole poser thing :-S

    I do take the point, and it's a good one... but I think I am capable of hating what I see in the mirror or thinking it's ok depending on the mood I'm in. So I guess I'm not especially good at being realistic with myself -- til hitting goal I was using the objective "yes but your weight is gradually going down and you're doing it at a sensible rate" to reason myself out of stupidity about whether or not I looked ok.

    The purpose of my post was to just say that you should be focused on getting your body to look, feel, and perform how you would like it to. This is not dependent on what number shows up on the scale or the bodyfat meter.

    I understand the need to have a metric in order to stay motivated, but perhaps the scale isn't a good one.
  • zen82
    zen82 Posts: 81 Member
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    But also I guess I still think "what should I weigh?" / "what bodyfat am I and what do I want to be that's achievable?" and just don't know for sure at all on any of those counts!

    You don't need to know any of the above as long as you own a mirror and can be honest with yourself.

    This may sound stupid, but bear in mind I rent as a lodger and have a tiny room: the only way I can look at my body in the mirror is by standing on top of the loo with the lid down and looking at the one across the bathroom above the sink - which is a bit of a distance away and in bad light. There are gym mirrors but I try to not look too interested in them because of the whole poser thing :-S

    I do take the point, and it's a good one... but I think I am capable of hating what I see in the mirror or thinking it's ok depending on the mood I'm in. So I guess I'm not especially good at being realistic with myself -- til hitting goal I was using the objective "yes but your weight is gradually going down and you're doing it at a sensible rate" to reason myself out of stupidity about whether or not I looked ok.

    The purpose of my post was to just say that you should be focused on getting your body to look, feel, and perform how you would like it to. This is not dependent on what number shows up on the scale or the bodyfat meter.

    I understand the need to have a metric in order to stay motivated, but perhaps the scale isn't a good one.

    I agree in principle, but struggle to find another metric I can track easily - even though I know weight is essentially a bunch of ~*&# etc. My measurements of thighs/arms etc don't vary much at all (I do track them, maybe once a month or so) and waist is within a 1 inch range and is mostly down to "have I eaten too much salt" / TOM etc as to where in the range - I have noticed clothes are a bit looser and stuff and suppose I have a 'guide' pair of jeans that I'd notice if they became snug or started hanging off me. So that's ok for keeping track of if things are going way off track. Bf% just seems too hard to get an accurate reading of - I had calipers done and honestly don't think the woman doing it had a clue - she kept having to look at a book, seemed to be poking me in places that were different to the pictures, etc... impedance thing on boyfriend's scale reads 3 different ways 3 times you step on it. Mirror perceptions affected by my mental state. Ugh.

    Maybe the thing to do would be to really find a way of getting the hell away from those sorts of things to track. But then I'm not sure what I'd be doing on MFP as those are the things it's designed for.