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Wing Chun vs Kyokushin Karate vs Deeper Level Martial Artss

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Grafty
Grafty Posts: 28
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Hello all my fellow martial Artist,

I need as much input from YOU guys that know your stuff ! I've been doing Kyokushin Karate for 9 months now so not doing It for an age, but finding it a great full contact sport. I had a semi light contact spar with an old school friend that does Wing Chun and found that because of the center line and angles that Wing Chun uses, elbows, knees, low strong kicks, throat strikes, eye strikes....... I could see that Wing Chun would be efficient to practice in my later years... you know.... losing flexibility, longer time to heal an injury from full contact competition etc etc...

I do understand that Wing Chun is a complete system and Kyokushin a great system for stand up. My question is to all,

What do you GUYS think the pros and cons of Wing Chun vs Kyokushin karate, style wise ? Be honest !!

I'm thinking about cross training as my kyokushin club is directed toward the sport side (no head strikes) and less self defense... and I feel the need to get more from my martial arts than just the full contact side...(even though I like that side of it) I'm swaying more on the DEEPER / spiritual side of martial arts.


So come on all you Wing Chun practitioners and all experienced practitioners...... Please open the flood gates !! I want to hear your experience opinions

Replies

  • chandjm
    chandjm Posts: 16
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    Its an apples to oranges comparison. Win chun is very circular while most if not all Karate is linear. Cross training makes a great deal of sense however. First, Kyokushin has its roots in chinese chaun fa(kung fu) even though they wont admit it completely there are connections. Second Every martial art has its holes and filling those areas are important no matter what style you practice. I knew an older guy that once that practiced Win chun and liked it because it accomidated his physical limitations. I train in Tang Soo Do. It a Korean art has roots in chinese kung fu, Korean Tyguek and Okinawan karate. Most of our forms are Okinawan with roots from China. Because of the limitations, or holes, in my style I also train in Hapkido, Escrima, Boxing and Juijitsu. I love traditional martial arts. The hidden techniques found in the forms are some nasty self-defense techniques. Anybody that thinks that forms or traditional martial arts have no have no place in modern sel-defense should read "Secrets of the Shotokan." It changed my mind. Good Luck.
  • KyleB65
    KyleB65 Posts: 1,196 Member
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    I don't have enough karate experience to offer anything regarding how or if one style is better than another. But, I have been studying Jeet Kune Do for over 3 years. If Wing Chun interests you? Check out Jeet Kune do. This is the style without a style created by Bruce Lee. He built it from his base of wing Chun learned from Ip Man.
    The version I study has lineage to Daniel Inosanto. We incorporate lots of Jiu Jitsu with the Wing Chun. So it is a stand up to floor martial art.
    Hard to learn as it incorporates so many different things. But, most things worth while take effort! :-)
    Hope you find something that works well for you.
  • Grafty
    Grafty Posts: 28
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    Hi chandjm,

    Thanks for your reply

    I agree with what you have said and while sparing with my friend I did notice certain holes but I also believe Its down to the practitioner and how they apply their techniques .... to be honest I love Kyokushin and its great for my physical structure and so wont just stop what I'm doing But realization to certain holes are apparent. And need attention to complete upstairs and down stairs combat scenarios. Ive see Tang Soo Do training on youTube and looks effective.... and I also can see why you cross train in Escrima, boxing etc etc... My mind Isn't made up yet In what to cross train in but I will choose carefully.

    By the way how do you get away with all that training ! doesn't the other half mined ! and if not tell me your secret
  • Grafty
    Grafty Posts: 28
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    Hi KyleB65

    I found one JKD school when I was looking for a Martial Art to participate in. I did a lot of research on JKD. I believe Bruce Lee had It right when adding ground work to his Wing Chun and made JKD a complete system which you could add more and more techniques to that system to make it more advanced.... It was a shame the school was so far away !
  • rstoliker
    rstoliker Posts: 65
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    I would try out some classes before you drop one to get to the next. I know you've invested some time in the Karate...and would hate to see you have the "grass isn't always greener" problem. There is nothing wrong with either style...as long as you get what you want out of it. I did Praying Mantis while I lived in Florida....and I really enjoyed it...and then I moved back to Albany and took up Budokai (Seido Karate). I really didn't enjoy all the forms...and it just wasnt for me. Got into the judo/jiu jitsu and LOVE it. I'm getting out of this exactly what I want. I'm too old for bar fights and/or competing...so...truth be told, it's the people I work with that make it worth while for me.

    Also...if you are looking for cross training...I would recommend Tai Chi. TOTALLY different...and works the body more than I expected!
  • cmajeff
    cmajeff Posts: 504 Member
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    I would try out some classes before you drop one to get to the next. I know you've invested some time in the Karate...and would hate to see you have the "grass isn't always greener" problem. There is nothing wrong with either style...as long as you get what you want out of it. I did Praying Mantis while I lived in Florida....and I really enjoyed it...and then I moved back to Albany and took up Budokai (Seido Karate). I really didn't enjoy all the forms...and it just wasnt for me. Got into the judo/jiu jitsu and LOVE it. I'm getting out of this exactly what I want. I'm too old for bar fights and/or competing...so...truth be told, it's the people I work with that make it worth while for me.

    Also...if you are looking for cross training...I would recommend Tai Chi. TOTALLY different...and works the body more than I expected!

    I have black belts/sashes in both Kung Fu and Tae Kwon Do, and Karate. Style comparisons never made sense to me. It is an art form. Each participant learns a system and then applies it to themselves. Conventional thought is mold you to a system, when actuality, the system molds around you and becomes part of you.

    If you find yourself weak in a area, learn from it and adapt. You don't have to learn a complete new system (well, I did because I love the arts) just find learn how to fight your weak areas. If your ground game sucks, learn to combat it and use your strengths. In the end, it isn't the style that saves you, it is the desire in you to win or survive.
  • Grafty
    Grafty Posts: 28
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    Thank you all for your feed back.. It means a lot to hear experienced opinions ! I have pondered over cross training and I have no intentions of moving from kyokushin at all. In fact Its good for my physical structure and keeps me focused and very fit and supple.... If I was to cross train I would cross train In ground work which would complement each other. tradition ju jitsu with wrist locks, pressure point striking and with judo throws I don't think I could go wrong !

    I do honestly think that as you get older you can be more efficient within your thinking, moves, striking with power because you have practiced your physical weapons thousands of time and your techniques are built into your muscles..... all In all I have made up my mind and Its gonna to be heading on the same path as I've dedicated my time efforts In. Kyokushin Is powerful and a tuff style and well worth taming !

    And so I now know If I have a sensible question to ask you all I will get decent answers back !

    Thanks Guys
  • rstoliker
    rstoliker Posts: 65
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    can't go wrong with jiu jitsu! ;-)
  • Madmadz77
    Madmadz77 Posts: 129 Member
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    Use to do Wing Chung when I was a kid... It led to Kickboxing, then to Thai Boxing, to MMA, to wrestling and Jiu-jits... Just a big lover of grappling. All this to say that most of Wing Chung and Karate is irrelevant. Once you start sparing it becomes Thai boxing.

    However the important thing is just to have fun and exercise.
  • michaelocampo
    michaelocampo Posts: 108 Member
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    the style-vs-style debate is understood by me as apples-vs-oranges. each art is the PERFECT style for precisely the reason it was created for. so, train the system for the situation.

    street self defense? krav maga
    harmony of mind and body? aikido, northern kung fu styles, and yoga
    speed, angles, and agility? boxing and tae kwon do
    weapons? filipino martial arts, kendo, and firearms classes
    form/function/development? karate
    sport-effective striking and power? kickboxing and thai boxing
    explosive clinch and control grappling? judo and westling
    submission grappling? brazilian jiu jitsu and catch wrestling

    obvisouly the above is my opinion, some generalizing, and over-simplification... BUT the point remains: the arts were made to accomplish something, but not everything. thats just how it is.. in some cases, there are only certain paths to a destination.
  • mfanyafujo
    mfanyafujo Posts: 232 Member
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    Hello all my fellow martial Artist,

    I need as much input from YOU guys that know your stuff ! I've been doing Kyokushin Karate for 9 months now so not doing It for an age, but finding it a great full contact sport. I had a semi light contact spar with an old school friend that does Wing Chun and found that because of the center line and angles that Wing Chun uses, elbows, knees, low strong kicks, throat strikes, eye strikes....... I could see that Wing Chun would be efficient to practice in my later years... you know.... losing flexibility, longer time to heal an injury from full contact competition etc etc...

    I do understand that Wing Chun is a complete system and Kyokushin a great system for stand up. My question is to all,

    What do you GUYS think the pros and cons of Wing Chun vs Kyokushin karate, style wise ? Be honest !!

    I'm thinking about cross training as my kyokushin club is directed toward the sport side (no head strikes) and less self defense... and I feel the need to get more from my martial arts than just the full contact side...(even though I like that side of it) I'm swaying more on the DEEPER / spiritual side of martial arts.


    So come on all you Wing Chun practitioners and all experienced practitioners...... Please open the flood gates !! I want to hear your experience opinions

    You may be familiar with the quote "There are no superior martial arts, only superior martial artists." I would say this also extends to instructors and schools. If you are seeking to develop both mind and body, the key is finding a very knowledgeable instructor in a school that focuses on making its students well-rounded, not just preparing them for competition. I have nothing against competition fighting, but the rules imposed by most organizations lead to holes in your defense and offense which may some day put you in a bad situation. I am an advocate of traditional schools, but I also feel you can pursue spiritual development by learning any skill - archery, painting, whatever - it's entirely dependent on your mindset and your teacher. As far as martial skill, if you feel your current school has some flaws, why not ask your instructor how they might be filled? You might just be too new to the system to see how all the techniques can be applied. However, my own experience is in Shto Ryu karate and Choy lay fut kung fu, so I may be wrong.

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