Front squat and press - wtf?
jo_marnes
Posts: 1,601 Member
I tried this for the first time today. I can NOT get it. I did it 5 times with the olympic bar (no plates) and struggled to press on the 5th (felt back arching). Went back to the book and felt my arms were not in the right spot (I can't get it onto my fingers as per the book?). Tried again. Nope, back to book. Tried again. Nope. Back to the book. Still don't get it. No trainers around to ask today else I'd have gotten them to show me. Any tips? I ended up doing a squat and press with dumbells instead for today.
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This is a hard one and honestly, I'm not sure I ever got it right. It hurt my wrists. I read on one of these forums some advice that helped me better get the concept. When holding the bar in the squat position against your collarbone, hold the bar mostly in your fingertips; and when you come back to this position, it's easier to get the bar in your finger tips than to "hold" onto the bar. From the squat, I just pushed up and powered my way through til I was standing an holding it over my head .Not sure if I'm explaining it well, but that fingertip thing helped me because I had been trying to grip the bar and it messed up the smooth motion of going from squat to press.
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It's a doozy of a move for sure. I started off doing tons of reps with a preloaded 10kg barbell to try and get the form correct, and I'm still not sure if I was doing them right. By the end of the stage I'd worked up to the bar (20kg) but that was it, and 20kg was tough. I was disappointed not to hit a heaver final weight considering my back squat is 35kg for 3 sets but from what I've heard this is normal. But I definitely needed to work up to the olympic bar- no way could I have started off with it.0
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What kmsai said. Plus, remember that you are using momentum to get the OHP executed. Finally, don't think that the unloaded bar was an *easy* place to start. 45 pounds is tough. I left off at 50 pounds in stage 1 for the DB OHP and I did my eight sets of FSPP at 45/55/60/60/65/65/65/65.0
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I guess I don't know where to go from here. I've finished stage 1 with 50kg (110lbs) on the back squats, so now 20kg (45lbs) on the front squats feels like I'm doing nothing for my legs and it's all upper that's the struggle. There is nothing smaller than the olympic bar at my gym so cannot reduce weight without changing the exercise. Shall I keep trying or swap it out for the dumbell squat & press?!0
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Definitely keep trying. The body only changes when it is challenged! I would try it with a weight that feels ridiculously easy just to get the movement down first. With practice you will get it!0
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I guess I don't know where to go from here. I've finished stage 1 with 50kg (110lbs) on the back squats, so now 20kg (45lbs) on the front squats feels like I'm doing nothing for my legs and it's all upper that's the struggle. There is nothing smaller than the olympic bar at my gym so cannot reduce weight without changing the exercise. Shall I keep trying or swap it out for the dumbell squat & press?!
It's very awkward at first, but personally I'd give it another go. I found I really had to keep my elbows right up to get the bar on my fingers, and only dropped my elbows to grip the bar after the squat, as I drove up through legs/hips. Also I think may have used one of the slightly smaller 6ft oly bars that was on a bench pressing stand which are 5kg lighter.0 -
Don't compare your front squat push press weight to your back squat weight. I back squat 135 pounds but will probably start front squat push presses at 55 or 65 when I do them again. They aren't necessarily to work your legs, like the back squat -- they are a whole body power move.
In NROL Supercharged, you have to choose a "power" move (one that requires coordination and momentum to accomplish) in all the stages. I kind of hated them during NROLFW, but I'm going to use them as a power move at least once in Supercharged. They kind of grow on you.
I would advise you to use a pre-weighted barbell and try 30 pounds for a few sets to get a feel for them. The most important thing is that you have to do them quickly, in one smooth motion, using your whole body to get that bar above your head.0 -
What kmsai said. Plus, remember that you are using momentum to get the OHP executed. Finally, don't think that the unloaded bar was an *easy* place to start. 45 pounds is tough. I left off at 50 pounds in stage 1 for the DB OHP and I did my eight sets of FSPP at 45/55/60/60/65/65/65/65.
Omg - I have no idea why I said I left off at 50...I left off at 140. As sunshine said, the two moves are very different. Keep at it!0 -
I did the 2A workout twice now, and I've separated the front squat and push press. (We learned them separately in Crossfit.) So I just do ten front squats... and then ten push presses with just a little dip to get the momentum to get them in the air. Both with the olympic bar. I just feel like I can concentrate better on my form. Maybe next time I'll try to combine them.0
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I did the 2A workout twice now, and I've separated the front squat and push press. (We learned them separately in Crossfit.) So I just do ten front squats... and then ten push presses with just a little dip to get the momentum to get them in the air. Both with the olympic bar. I just feel like I can concentrate better on my form. Maybe next time I'll try to combine them.
I think that is a great idea for the first workout. Just focusing on the front squats without worrying about the transition to the press probably helps a lot.0 -
There are some really good pics/guidelines on how to do front squat in Bret C's stuff....I've provided a brief sample link, below. Hopefully this helps with "form" issues on the front squat part.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/StrongCurves/Strong_Curves_Final_Sample.pdf0 -
What kmsai said. Plus, remember that you are using momentum to get the OHP executed. Finally, don't think that the unloaded bar was an *easy* place to start. 45 pounds is tough. I left off at 50 pounds in stage 1 for the DB OHP and I did my eight sets of FSPP at 45/55/60/60/65/65/65/65.
Omg - I have no idea why I said I left off at 50...I left off at 140. As sunshine said, the two moves are very different. Keep at it!
you OHP 140? holy crap you're my hero!!
OP ditto what everyone is saying. I started FSPP in Stage 2 at 20. I still struggle with 45 mainly due to the OHP part, even with the momentum.0 -
I let my pecs hold the weight as opposed to my arms for the squat portion. My fingertips are under the bar, but it is my chest that is supporting it. When I go into the overhead press part, that's when I move the bar into my palms quickly and push up explosively. I've had pretty much no wrist pain doing it this way. I'm up to 50# and might up to 60# by the end of this Stage 4. I could squat WAY MORE, but this move is about the compound movement, not the squat. For everyone splitting it into two separate moves, I would reconsider that unless you have a medical reason not to combine them. It's a tricky move, but if you really get the form right at a lower weight, you'll be fine to bump up the weight. The reason he includes it is so you work on getting your body to work together as a whole unit. By separating out the moves, you're cheating yourself of an opportunity to work your body as a unity.0
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Holley you explained it very nicely. I basically TRIED to do what you explained. Also getting my elbows up was important -- so that they literally pointed straight out towards the mirrow. I'd like to come back to this move and work on it some more. I miss it. *sniff sniff*0
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I am so happy someone posted this thread! I was also disappointed in the big drop in weight from back-loaded squats to front and, like kmsairam, my wrists are what hurt me. I will definitely try to apply everyone's suggestions for my next workout.
I did feel it in the legs the next day, though. Mind you, the weighted step-ups and lunges (i hate lunges!) may have had a hand in that.
Onward and upward!!! Right, Ladies!0 -
What kmsai said. Plus, remember that you are using momentum to get the OHP executed. Finally, don't think that the unloaded bar was an *easy* place to start. 45 pounds is tough. I left off at 50 pounds in stage 1 for the DB OHP and I did my eight sets of FSPP at 45/55/60/60/65/65/65/65.
Omg - I have no idea why I said I left off at 50...I left off at 140. As sunshine said, the two moves are very different. Keep at it!
you OHP 140? holy crap you're my hero!!
OP ditto what everyone is saying. I started FSPP in Stage 2 at 20. I still struggle with 45 mainly due to the OHP part, even with the momentum.
I am such a nut...no I go back to 50 for the OHP. At first I wanted to make the point that even though you are using momentum, its still hard to do it. Then I retread the OP and I thought I was comparing to squat weight. Sorry!0 -
I added Front Squats to my Supercharged Basic Training II workout, and I must say that without the push press to break them up, they KILL my wrists. I tried the arms crossed way, and it was a bit better, but I'm going to keep working on them. I used 45 and then 65 pounds, which my legs easily handled, even after jump squats and offset loaded step-ups. I'm going to persistently work on these until I can master them, and I'm definitely going to use FSPPs as one of my power moves coming up. :-)0
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The only time your hands are holding the bar is when you switch to the front press. Think about holding the bar up with your ARMS for the squat-- keep your elbows UP-- then, as you near the top of the move, roll the bar into your hands and press it.
Otherwise the bar is completely balanced/resting on the groove between your biceps and shoulders (or at least on your upper arms if you don't know where those are), and your fingers are just there to keep it from rolling around, and of course so you can grab it for the press.
Go slow to start and you ought to start getting the groove of it.
Also don't get into too much of a groove or you will start to bump the bar into your neck when you complete the press
And don't load more than you can overhead press (obviously)-- This probably won't compare to your squat numbers (especially not for women).
As a side note, I hurt my knee fairly recently and squatting never felt right after that, though wide-stance felt close. I decided to try a wide-stance FRONT-squat and it was just the thing! So happy!
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Thanks! I'm going to keep these in my workouts for this Stage -- I am determined to master them. They're awkward as hell! I did like the arms crossed form better, but want to get the regular form down, too.
Edited to add: I don't think I have good wrist mobility.0 -
Keep trying! My back squat is 130, and I can JUST NOW push press 55lbs. I was on 45 for, umm... 6 months? Don't get discouraged and enjoy the humble moments!0
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Like someone already said, the bar should be resting on your shoulders when you do front squat. The fingers are there so that you can grab the bar when you are ready to push press it. Keep your elbows up the whole time for the squat and when you are almost at top , roll the bar in your hands and push press it. Keep trying , you will get it. It's a great power move! Don't split it.0
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So glad I found this thread!! I thought it was just me that was awkward as hell with this movement! Looking forward to trying again Wednesday after reading all these tips:)
Im also glad someone clarified the purpose of this being a whole body move, I was back squatting 185, only able to FSPP 65 so far! I seriously love this forum:)0 -
Like someone already said, the bar should be resting on your shoulders when you do front squat. The fingers are there so that you can grab the bar when you are ready to push press it. Keep your elbows up the whole time for the squat and when you are almost at top , roll the bar in your hands and push press it. Keep trying , you will get it. It's a great power move! Don't split it.
How do you rest the bar on your shoulders without choking or decapitating yourself?? I'm thinking that maybe my arms are proportioned differently than the model in the book, because if I put my elbows up and hands back like she does, my hands are behind my shoulders.0 -
Like someone already said, the bar should be resting on your shoulders when you do front squat. The fingers are there so that you can grab the bar when you are ready to push press it. Keep your elbows up the whole time for the squat and when you are almost at top , roll the bar in your hands and push press it. Keep trying , you will get it. It's a great power move! Don't split it.
How do you rest the bar on your shoulders without choking or decapitating yourself?? I'm thinking that maybe my arms are proportioned differently than the model in the book, because if I put my elbows up and hands back like she does, my hands are behind my shoulders.
Not on your shoulders. It's on your pec muscles just above your breasts and below your collar bone. Hope that helps!0 -
I am pretty skinny and holding the olympic bar (20kg) at any point on my chest = discomfort. It's sitting on bone wherever I put it! I've stopped thinking about its exact location and just ploughing through it. I finally got my 20 reps today. When I stopped thinking about the bar's position, I was more able to focus on the press, which I found much easier when focusing on breath and powering with my legs.0
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http://www.menshealth.com/workout-center/e/barbell-front-squat-to-push-press/26074
Check out this link with pics of FS/PP0 -
I never could get the bar positioned correctly without it stressing one body part or another (wrists, delts, clavicles). I agree with other posters about it being a power move that gets the body working together as a unit. It improves balance and coordination, along with overall power and strength.
This is how I ended up doing them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVBgKB4Gnsw&list=PL4CE51ED9E54AA7C3&index=19
Notice how she's using her upward momentum to rise up onto her toes as if she's trying to throw the weight up through the ceiling. Just as it's quoted in our book, bullet point #4 under the "Lift" section.
Also noted in the book on pg. 179, this exercise is meant to be done with fast, explosive action. The goal is muscle power. Power is the ability to move something as fast as possible. The above video is a perfect example of this.
I also like the idea of using a weighted Swiss ball to make sure you're squatting deep enough.
Side note: notice how SHE'S doing pull-ups while the man is doing chin-ups. Pull-ups are much more difficult. She's one strong cookie.0 -
That video is awesome! Great technique. I'll watch again when I get to this stage as that is really useful - thanks for posting.0
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I had success with these today, after watching some videos on how it's supposed to be done, I realize it is a total power move (and thanks to the thread here!). I was trying to start with 65, which was WAY too heavy for me. I used just the bar, and felt it where I should have, and felt like the move was correct! The next set I only went up to 50, and it seemed right too.
Thankful for this forum 0 -
OMG thank you for that video. That totally helped me out!0
