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Training for fat loss vs training for strength

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DragonSquatter
DragonSquatter Posts: 957 Member
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Is there a difference between training to maintain as much muscle mass as possible while losing fat versus training for strength gains? Should there be?

I'm 29, female, and looking to drop 45 lbs. My body fat percentage is very high (38%), and I'd like to retain as much muscle as possible. While I'd like to get stronger, my real goal is to get my body fat percentage and weight in a healthy range. I'm wondering if a program designed for strength gains is necessary or if I should consider another form of resistance training that doesn't rely so heavily on aggressive progressive loading to maximize fat loss and minimize muscle loss.

Strength programs touted here like Stronglifts and Wendler's seem to be aimed at people who are eating at or above maintenance.

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  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Is there a difference between training to maintain as much muscle mass as possible while losing fat versus training for strength gains? Should there be?

    There are some differences (differences when comparing the majority of people in non competition contexts to advanced athletes in competitive scenarios/situations-- for example a person who is single digit bodyfat may get into things like depletion training and cyclical intakes/etc. A competitive powerlifter may have programming needs that aren't suitable or necessary for someone who is looking to lose some fat and lift some weights).

    You'll note that while in a caloric deficit, the first thing that tends to change (IF NEEDED) is that training volume gets reduced because recovery is impaired in the absence of sufficient calories.

    So what you're looking at under this condition is a lower volume heavy training session. My observation so far, is that some of the more common beginning/intermediate strength based programs fit this criteria. They are low to moderate volume and they are heavy.

    Now in a calorie deficit you may not be able to make strength progressions at the same pace that you would in a caloric surplus or at maintenance, so that element of traditional strength programs may not persist depending on training experience, leanness, etc.


    Strength programs touted here like Stronglifts and Wendler's seem to be aimed at people who are eating at or above maintenance.

    For reasons previously stated, I think the above programs are both great for people who are eating in a deficit. Build your strength to the best of your ability while on the programs and that strength gain will be a very nice side benefit (you may build small amounts of muscle for a while even in a deficit if you are new to training). Your fat loss will come from an energy deficit that you create through a combination of diet and overall activity.
  • BusyRaeNOTBusty
    BusyRaeNOTBusty Posts: 7,166 Member
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    ::Butting in::

    As a woman on a deficit, 5x5 got REALLY tough pretty fast. I now do a modified version of Strong Lifts at 3x8. But try the 5x5 at first. Once you start stalling out, re-evaluated.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    To add my 2c.

    There are programming differences between strength, hypertrophy and LBM retention, but they only really become relevant in most situations for intermediate lifters.

    Programs like 5 x 5 are actually not true strength training programs but a hybrid of strength and hypertrophy and are effective at LBM retention as well as strength gains while at a deficit. The biggest issue, as has already been noted, is possible recovery/fatigue issues with that high of a volume. Wendler is more of a strength based program (although it does have a bb'er option), and unless you are looking at the full body version, which even then does not have enough volume imo, is not optimal for most people within a year of lifting (or even longer), especially at a deficit, as you only train one main body part a week.

    Many people run these programs at a deficit and the recovery/progress will vary individual to individual.

    At the end of the day, for LBM retention while eating at a deficit, a progressive loading program should be applied.
  • Lyadeia
    Lyadeia Posts: 4,603 Member
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    My current program is based off of Wendler's 5/3/1 with the bodybuilder's option, and I am eating a 15-20% deficit from my TDEE (about 1800 calories right now) and the fat has just been falling off of me. I don't know whether it was the program or the fact that I started eating more...or a combination of both (probably this) but I look and feel 100x better than I did back in March when I started it. My strength gains are through the roof (literally, like yesterday morning I had a PR for squats of 210 pounds whereas back in March I was lucky to do 125 pounds!!!).

    That said, I only do 5 exercises per workout, 4 sets of each exercise.

    When I get to my goal body fat and want to start building muscle and eating more, I plan on changing programs to Tom Venuto's TNB workout which is an upper/lower split with one day that focuses on hypertrophy and endurance for upper, one day that focuses on strength and power for upper (same for lower on the other 2 days as this program is 4 workouts per week). This particular program has a much higher volume than what I am doing (typically 8 exercises or so for workout with anywhere from 3-5 sets per exercise depending on the exercise).

    I tried TNB while I was on a deficit last year, and it was rough. Very rough. My recovery was awful. I had to switch, lol. The workouts lasted about 60-75 minutes with the proper rest periods (you can shorten it to 50-60 minutes if you shorten the rest periods, but you shouldn't do that anyway!) I am sure that when I am eating more and not worrying about doing any cardio at all I will have much better results from it. I've seen other people gain awesome muscle definition and symmetry from that workout. I just don't think it is right for someone still on a deficit, unless they are doing a recomp. where they eat surplus at times and deficit at times (which is too slow for my tastes so I don't do that anyway).

    So, basically, just agreeing with Sidesteel here and giving my personal experience to back it up. :flowerforyou:
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    My current program is based off of Wendler's 5/3/1 with the bodybuilder's option, and I am eating a 15-20% deficit from my TDEE (about 1800 calories right now) and the fat has just been falling off of me. I don't know whether it was the program or the fact that I started eating more...or a combination of both (probably this) but I look and feel 100x better than I did back in March when I started it. My strength gains are through the roof (literally, like yesterday morning I had a PR for squats of 210 pounds whereas back in March I was lucky to do 125 pounds!!!).

    That said, I only do 5 exercises per workout, 4 sets of each exercise.

    When I get to my goal body fat and want to start building muscle and eating more, I plan on changing programs to Tom Venuto's TNB workout which is an upper/lower split with one day that focuses on hypertrophy and endurance for upper, one day that focuses on strength and power for upper (same for lower on the other 2 days as this program is 4 workouts per week). This particular program has a much higher volume than what I am doing (typically 8 exercises or so for workout with anywhere from 3-5 sets per exercise depending on the exercise).

    I tried TNB while I was on a deficit last year, and it was rough. Very rough. My recovery was awful. I had to switch, lol. The workouts lasted about 60-75 minutes with the proper rest periods (you can shorten it to 50-60 minutes if you shorten the rest periods, but you shouldn't do that anyway!) I am sure that when I am eating more and not worrying about doing any cardio at all I will have much better results from it. I've seen other people gain awesome muscle definition and symmetry from that workout. I just don't think it is right for someone still on a deficit, unless they are doing a recomp. where they eat surplus at times and deficit at times (which is too slow for my tastes so I don't do that anyway).

    So, basically, just agreeing with Sidesteel here and giving my personal experience to back it up. :flowerforyou:

    Sounds similar to PHAT with the split. With PHAT I know that they suggest to cut the number of sets down if on a deficit as the volume is just too much for people on a deficit.
  • DragonSquatter
    DragonSquatter Posts: 957 Member
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    I have to re read this thread when I get some time to really digest the information here.

    Thanks for sharing the information! Great group.
  • baxgilter
    baxgilter Posts: 246 Member
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    Yup, throwing in to follow.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Locking so we can keep track of active threads. If you wish for the thread to be unlocked should you have further questions, please feel free to PM either myself or SideSteel, including a link to this thread and we will unlock it so you can pose them.
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