anyone lost a LOT with this method?

emcdonie · May 2013

Alright. I'm in. I read a lot yesterday about this, and it makes sense to what I was thinking about trying. I had thought about just eating maintenance and working my tail off. I was thinking it because I know I am deficient in b12 and iron. Many symptoms such as hair loss, and non diabetic neuropathy. I supplement and even with that it doesn't seem enough. I decided to kick coffee this week to help boost my absorption of b vitamins.

But in general I know a lot of it has resulted from big calorie deficits since late last summer. I have around 210 overall to lose, and I had knocked out 67 of them by eating lower carb. Lower carb was good for diabetes control for me. But my diabetes is in remission now, so I don't have to be so aggressive with carb monitoring.

For a while when I started losing, I was fine, and felt energetic, but I feel like I have been on a decline since about feb of this year. And I really am thinking it is my body just crying out from the deficit for too long. I have felt ravenous lately, and I "feel" like my body is missing things. That probably sounds silly, but it is true.

My bmr is around 1900 and I was often eating 1200 or less and NOT eating back exercise calories except for once in a while.

The past month or so, I had already been eating a bit higher, but still not even at the bmr.

So yesterday and today I put my number back up on maintenance for a while. Looking at my calories and carbs available, I feel like I hit the lottery. But yet, it is kinda nerve wrecking to think of possible gains. But I have firmly set in my mind I will work hard too.

Here is my question, it seems many of you are not far from goal weights and don't have big numbers to lose.

Is there very many people who have used this method and dropped a lot of weight. 100+ or so??

I still have well over 100 to go. I guess it just means it may take a lot longer for me to reach the goal weight area. (I view my goal as flexible) but if it takes longer I am okay with that. My weight loss has been stalled lately anyway. I hope that slow and steady will win the race.

michellekicks · May 2013

Yay!!! Glad you're here

You know me and my story, and I didn't lose a lot of weight, but math is math. You burn more calories at rest than I do just from weighing more. Now remember my post about glycogen while you do this. You will see some fluctuations while you increase calories.

I assume by now you've been to the Scooby site: http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/

If not, go play with it... check it out. With quite a bit of weight to lose you can go to a bigger cut, like 25% if you want. As long as you net your BMR is the rule of thumb around here.

Some will say go straight to eating TDEE for a bit to remind your body you're not going to starve it indefinitely. That may not be necessary for you, but you might want to do one week at TDEE as a diet break. I'm sure Kiki and Lucia will have opinions and they are more knowledgeable than I am on this method.

If you look at the following numbers, you should be able to get an idea of where your intake should land:

Your current BMR
Your current TDEE
Your BMR and TDEE at the weight you'd like to get to

I would suggest your intake land somewhere between where your BMR is now and where your TDEE will be once you reach a healthy weight.

emcdonie · May 2013

I am glad you are here to help me! :-) I REALLY appreciate the advice. Where I ate more the past couple weeks, I already am riding about 6 pounds high of what my ticker says(right now that is 273, but my low was like 267).

I usually only update on the losses, but I have been a daily weigh girl this whole time. I found the fluctuations interesting. I tended to lose only 2-3 days then I would rise for days or weeks before another loss. My monthly is also due to arrive any time in the next few days. So there is no doubt a degree of hormonal water weight I am already packing.

I figure on eating the TDEE for about a week like you suggested. I am afraid to go longer.

Anyway....let me see if I understand correctly. I had used another calculator before. Here is the numbers from the one you linked me to. I set it on gain muscle and lose fat. Was that right?

My current bmr is 1927
My current tdee is 2312

If I reached a goal of 125 (which is a little less than mid range for my height and frame....I am 5'6" with a small frame), then it says

bmr is 1281
tdee is 1538

Now when I put in the actual CW of 273 @ the following loss rates, I get these cal numbers
10% 2110
15% 1993
20% 1875 (below current bmr)
25% 1758 (below current bmr)

If I understand you correctly, your opinion is to set my NET at between 1538 and 1937? Would being below the bmr be detrimental or does my unusually heavy weight necessitate that?

I just want to make sure I understand it all.

Definitely lots of math. LOL I hope all of this proves true with my body. Being slightly hypothyroid, I wonder if my metabolism will cooperate. In theory I suppose it should being as the medication is SUPPOSED to level that playing field.

michellekicks · May 2013

Those calculations you did on the Scooby site seem to be at sedentary, though... you exercise, right? Fair bit of walking? If you put in even 1-3 hours of light exercise your current TDEE jumps up to 2686 calories daily... and that's a daily average (taking into account that you might do 3 1-hour sessions... your average daily burn is now 2686 every day of the week). If you bump up your exercise to 3-5 hours weekly at a moderate intensity (sweating within about 5 minutes), your TDEE is now up to 3028 every day of the week.

So it's really going to depend on your activity level.

If your activity is sporadic, you could take your current BMR and, since it's higher than your goal weight TDEE (which won't actually happen because you probably will have a way higher weight than 125... more later), just add your activity calories and eat them all.

So on rest days you'd eat 1900 and on workout days you'd eat 1900 plus ALL exercise calories burned. That's about as low as you want to go. It's aggressive. A less aggressive goal would be 20% cut from TDEE with, say, 4 hours/week of moderate activity. So 3000 * .8 = 2400 calories every day of the week (provided you get in the 4 hours of moderate activity). That would still give you a deficit of 600 calories daily on average, which should have you losing 1 lb every 6 days. If your activity is closer to the 1-3 hours/week (or you could be right in between the two), you want to be eating about 2150 daily every day.

I would bet that 2150 daily, every day, is very close to 1900 + all exercise calories on the days you earn them.

emcdonie · May 2013

yes I did put the numbers in all as sedentary as it seems so many say to always use that on MFP unless you are seriously more active. Being a stay at home mama, I am up and down a fair amount. Admittedly on my rear a lot more than I should be. I usually cook 3 meals and day, clean those up, laundry, etc. That stuff I have never counted. I figured it was the daily base, but still sedentary overall.

I have counted my exercise when we go for a walk, which we try to get in 2-3 a week if possible for around 45 to an hour. I walk the children to a park nearby when time and weather allow. I also use my stationary bike a couple times a week. My endurance is a little less on it, but MFP always gives me high burn rates. I usually am on it about 20 minutes or so. If I happen to have an usually heavy cleaning day, or heavy 'out' day like when we went to the zoo last week... I do log those. I wish MFP would show me my average burn, that would help. This makes me really want to invest in a heart rate monitor to have a more real idea of all of this.

So given what you said, the most aggressive is either making my goal 1900 + making certain I always consume exercise calories.....or I can just assume it as a general activity level and do a daily 2150.

Interesting. These numbers all seem so high from where I have been eating. LOL My body is gonna be in shock for a little while I am sure. Anything going beyond 1500-2000 I have felt like an evil diet sinner for months. Those were my cheat days.

I caught also you probably think the 125 goal is too low? I used that because I remember as a teenager being 135 and still having chubby hips at that weight. I guess it was all in body composition. If 125 is too low, that is okay, I won't complain as it lessen my goal. I just want to be as healthy and fit as possible in the end.

I have access to a workout facility over at the rental office. They don't have a ton of equipment, but they do have some things. Treadmills, ellipticals, and a few basic weight machines. A few free weights. Initially lack of knowledge on how to use the stuff held me back. But I believe it was you who linked me to some sites to help with that. But I have still slacked shamefully. I keep thinking on going over there are really beginning strength training, I just have felt so weak and puny for a while it has been hard to have the "umph" to start on top of everything else. I know I need to suck it up and go get going with it.

colleen3115 · May 2013

Just being a mama basically puts you at lightly active. I know my kids don't let me "sit" too much. I have a fitbit and it helps me know just how active just my normal days are. Adding in strength training will help you retain what muscle you have now so that when you reach your goal weight you will have more lean body mass than you did when you were a teen. I have heard good things about You Are Your Own Gym and I personally use The New Rules of Lifting for Women but it requires a fair amount of gym equipment. Both of those books have groups here on MFP.

ruwise · May 2013

I have over 100 to lose as well. So far I've lost 40 lb's so think I am well on my way. One thing I can say nothing beats this for me in terms of motivation and general happiness. I started dieting again back on January 16th. I went down to 1400 calories and by the start of February I was ready to give up until I read about eating more to weigh less. I've not done the full scooby calculator thing because at the moment my days are all too different. I just used the fat to fit calculator to work mine out. It gives me roughly 1900 when I'm totally sedentary and upto about 2400 when I do a lot of exercise (generally when I go out and do some long hillwalking)

When I get closer to goal I will probably look at the scooby calculator and work out more exactly what I need to be doing but for now the weight is coming off nicely and I don't feel like I'm starving myself so mentally I'm in a great place.

heybales · May 2013

yes I did put the numbers in all as sedentary as it seems so many say to always use that on MFP unless you are seriously more active. Being a stay at home mama, I am up and down a fair amount. Admittedly on my rear a lot more than I should be. I usually cook 3 meals and day, clean those up, laundry, etc. That stuff I have never counted. I figured it was the daily base, but still sedentary overall.

I have counted my exercise when we go for a walk, which we try to get in 2-3 a week if possible for around 45 to an hour. I walk the children to a park nearby when time and weather allow. I also use my stationary bike a couple times a week. My endurance is a little less on it, but MFP always gives me high burn rates. I usually am on it about 20 minutes or so. If I happen to have an usually heavy cleaning day, or heavy 'out' day like when we went to the zoo last week... I do log those. I wish MFP would show me my average burn, that would help. This makes me really want to invest in a heart rate monitor to have a more real idea of all of this.

So given what you said, the most aggressive is either making my goal 1900 + making certain I always consume exercise calories.....or I can just assume it as a general activity level and do a daily 2150.

Interesting. These numbers all seem so high from where I have been eating. LOL My body is gonna be in shock for a little while I am sure. Anything going beyond 1500-2000 I have felt like an evil diet sinner for months. Those were my cheat days.

I caught also you probably think the 125 goal is too low? I used that because I remember as a teenager being 135 and still having chubby hips at that weight. I guess it was all in body composition. If 125 is too low, that is okay, I won't complain as it lessen my goal. I just want to be as healthy and fit as possible in the end.

I have access to a workout facility over at the rental office. They don't have a ton of equipment, but they do have some things. Treadmills, ellipticals, and a few basic weight machines. A few free weights. Initially lack of knowledge on how to use the stuff held me back. But I believe it was you who linked me to some sites to help with that. But I have still slacked shamefully. I keep thinking on going over there are really beginning strength training, I just have felt so weak and puny for a while it has been hard to have the "umph" to start on top of everything else. I know I need to suck it up and go get going with it.

People that recommend sedentary have no objective knowledge on the matter usually.
Vast majority that get FitBit's and BodyMedia's discover their non-exercise sedentary desk job days are actually hitting MFP's Lightly Active level very easily.
They discover this when they keep getting big positive sync's despite no exercise.

Your home life moved you to Lightly Active, your exercise moves you to Moderately Active rounded down to nearest 100, using the standard TDEE levels.

Don't cheat your metabolism.

But for right now, depending on your other daily stresses, you could eat at current weight BMR Gross, don't log or eat back exercise calories.
Every 7 days, eat at TDEE for that day. And TDEE is that Moderately Active rounded down. Make it a bigger workout day if possible.

This method won't work in a bit, but it appears to be a 30% deficit for now.
Confirm you start with the BMR/TDEE calc using the Mifflin BMR.

Make sure you get in enough protein to help retain muscle mass, since not doing any lifting. 0.65 grams per lb of weight. Or 0.82 grams per lb of goal weight, which ever is lower. That recommendation is still a very safe value.

GoGoGadgetMum · May 2013

I'm not going to comment on calories as you have already received so much good advice but I will on coffee.

I am also deficient in iron and b12 even though I eat heaps of meat...... It's a bit of a genetic thing that i have recently been diagnosed with BUT I kicked coffee a month ago and have never felt better. I had my coffee to keep me going or so I thought. Since I stopped I have not had extreme fatigue which we thought was to do with my low ferritin(3 yrs) Also I have not fallen asleep during the day from exhaustion.

Hopefully you will get the great results I did:flowerforyou:

michellekicks · May 2013

I know I mentioned this on your profile, but I'll repost it here for the purposes of this discussion. As a stay-at-home-mom, my actual daily burn just from doing a bunch of nothing - cooking, a little cleaning and laundry (I'm NOT a neat freak by any stretch of the imagination) and driving kids to and fro - is equal to MFP's "Very Active" setting that includes people with physical jobs. My BMR is 1500 and my TDEE on a rest day is about 2100-2200 calories just from non-exercise activity.

Now I know not everyone is the same - maybe I just burn high because I'm type A and a little intense haha... but I do spend a fair amount of time sitting on the computer and napping just the same :bigsmile:

GoGoGadgetMum · May 2013

I know I mentioned this on your profile, but I'll repost it here for the purposes of this discussion. As a stay-at-home-mom, my actual daily burn just from doing a bunch of nothing - cooking, a little cleaning and laundry (I'm NOT a neat freak by any stretch of the imagination) and driving kids to and fro - is equal to MFP's "Very Active" setting that includes people with physical jobs. My BMR is 1500 and my TDEE on a rest day is about 2100-2200 calories just from non-exercise activity.

Now I know not everyone is the same - maybe I just burn high because I'm type A and a little intense haha... but I do spend a fair amount of time sitting on the computer and napping just the same :bigsmile:

Me too

kitka82 · May 2013

I lost 60 pounds three years ago and went from 224 to 164 using a 10-15% deficit. I didn't even know it until I checked the numbers recently. I lost a pound a week steadily. On the weeks that I gain or stalled, my deficit was larger. Go figure.

ANewLucia · May 2013

Most def not sedentary. You are moderate at least. I suggest giving yourself a little break from dieting and eating moderate TDEE for at least a week. You may want to consider doing a metabolism reset where you eat TDEE for 6-8 weeks. When you cut, cut no more than 15% and give yourself a break every four weeks or so of eating TDEE for a week.

emcdonie · May 2013

wow, just came back and checked the thread and seen all of the new posts. Thank you all so much for the advice. Very helpful words. :-) It seems the strong opinion is there is no way I am sedentary. That helps and makes a big difference for sure.

Hopefully my body won't freak out too much from the change. I will definitely take breaks and eat at TDEE periodically.

After the past few months and seeing what eating at too much of a deficit does.... I learned it isn't so wise. It might have been one thing if I only had a little to lose and thus it took a short time. However with huge numbers, to stay at a strong deficit for so long wasn't working well. My body was getting worse and worse with the signs it was showing. I have really long hair, so the hair loss alone in my brush was freaky. It was getting significantly worse than postpartum loss.(iron and b12) My mouth was sore often(b12 issue). My hands and feet were getting neuropathy again and this time it wasn't diabetes (b12). Inflammation is an increasing problem too, I am not as sure if that one is related or not. Initially my energy was great from losing weight, but it was actually in a strong decline lately.

I kept thinking the issues were a food allergy or something. Then recently, the light bulb went off....I may be an very overweight person, but I am probably simply not getting enough nourishment.

Even with eating the much smaller numbers, my weight loss was stalling out and I wasn't about to go lower. It made me want to pull out the hair I have left.

So I am thankful for another approach and all of the help you all have given.

PS I am thinking I might indeed buy a book or two on strength training and I appreciate the recommendations given

GoGoGadgetMum · May 2013

Many of us do New rules of lifting for woman....you can get that in kindle version or book.

A great resource too is eatmore2weighless.com which was started by the lovely ladies who started this group. Great information and forums too. They have a start up kit too of what to do and expect when you start eating more.

They have a store you can buy through and they get a wee bit of commission I think, which is great. Many do Cathe DVDs and you can get them through the store too.

New Rules of Lifting For Woman has a group here too

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/119-new-rules-of-lifting-for-women-nrol4w-

Feel free to send a friend request if you like

heybales · May 2013

Wow, were you heading in the wrong direction.

Please remember when you post your Before and After, or Before and 150 days or whatever, you mention those effects. Those are great for people to see, just in case they don't make the connection either.

It's funny how so many can eat so poorly for so long without those specific issues, but start eating generally better, but a whole lot less, and they show up.

Now, diet as a stress may indeed turn up something the body doesn't handle well when already under stress.
But equally interesting is fact that if you remove diet as a major stress, some foods may not be nearly as much or any stress to the body to deal with.
It's very interesting.

Great work on your realization, look forward to your progress reports.

CBell223 · May 2013

This has been an interesting thread for me. I have exactly the same amount to lose (210 lbs.). I'm 30 lbs down so far (since mid March). From the beginning, I've been interested in this EM2WL concept. I've just done too much yoyo extreme dieting in my past to believe that I could make a permanent change any other way.
My problem has been understanding the correct number of calories. My RD recommends 2100-2500 with no eating back exercise. MFP recommends 1850 with eating back. The BMR calculators I've used put my BMR between 1950-2250. What I'm confused by is that I've PM'd two of the main EM2WL posters here on MFP and both have told me to eat 1600 with no eating back. They tell me that doing that is safe for me (for a month or so, I think) because my BF% is so high. But it's scary for me. I don't want to do any metabolic damage. I've flirted with that number this week. Got close 3 days in a row but yesterday, I was ravenous.
I guess I'm just hoping for more input.
Stats:
50 yrs old
female
5'8"
currently 347 lbs.
desk job, but heavy lifting 3 days/week and high cardio at least 60-75 minutes, 4-6 days/week. (exercise has never been my issue, so for my size, I'm pretty fit and very strong)
Hypo thyroid, but no other medical issues (well, they just tested me for PCOS, insulin resistance and Cushings, but I don't think I have any of that. Will know in a couple of weeks. My liver enzymes are slightly elevated.)

I would have started a new thread, but I was very encouraged by the knowledgeable people who had already commented here (including Haybales, who is one of the people who told me to eat 1600 calories).

Final question: I've been told to eat from 30% - 70% of my calories in protein. So, what would you all recommend, and how do you get that much? Do you people use whey powder? I'm having a hard time getting enough...even if I'm aiming for 30%.

Thanks for any input you might have.

Carolyn

DoxieLove10612 · May 2013

Vast majority that get FitBit's and BodyMedia's discover their non-exercise sedentary desk job days are actually hitting MFP's Lightly Active level very easily.
They discover this when they keep getting big positive sync's despite no exercise.

^^This! Using my Body Media, I actually found out my "sedentary" patoot burns 2400 on my laziest day. I was in utter shock because I assumed 8 hours sitting at a desk, 30 minute lunch sitting at a table, sitting on the couch from 530-9, just couldn't amount to much but in reality you do not realize all the work you are actually doing.

hjackson1226 · May 2013

Very interesting post. I am definitely coming back to read through all of this.

BEST OF LUCK TO YOU OP

ANewLucia · May 2013

Wow Carolyn...you are so right 1600 is NOT the way to go. We absolutely never advocate eating under BMR (unless a person is directed by their physician...).

Use the Scooby calculator http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/ and be honest about your activity. Select a cut of 15% or less and eat that for four weeks. You should take a diet break for a week and then go back to your cut. If you aren't lifting start...it helps you build/maintain your LBM.

We usually suggest 40c/30p & f.

Hope this helps!
Lucia

michellekicks · May 2013

I would have started a new thread, but I was very encouraged by the knowledgeable people who had already commented here (including Haybales, who is one of the people who told me to eat 1600 calories).

Final question: I've been told to eat from 30% - 70% of my calories in protein. So, what would you all recommend, and how do you get that much? Do you people use whey powder? I'm having a hard time getting enough...even if I'm aiming for 30%.

Heybales is a technical numbers guy, and if you know your BF% with accuracy, 1600 could well be the number for you since your BMR is based on BF% rather than actual weight. Having said that, I don't know all the details. He may have suggested 1600 as a cut for a sedentary day and then add in exercise calories.

My guess as to the range of protein %'s is the fact that your target should largely be a quantity goal rather than a % goal. Ideally you'll be eating 1g protein per pound of lean body mass. For me that's about 120g and I will go up to about 140g and, yes, I supplement to do that. I'd be way too full if I ate that all in meat and cheese and yogurt and stuff I like. So if you have 100 lbs of lean mass, you need 100g daily... regardless of the % of overall calories. So if you're eating 1600 calories that would be a much higher % than if you ate 100g out of 2500 calories.

Eat More 2 Weigh Less

anyone lost a LOT with this method?

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