The official thread to speculate on John Hurt's Doctor
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CollegiateGrief
Posts: 552 Member
Theories?
I kind of like the 0th Doctor theory. That Hartnell was actually the 1st regeneration, the first Doctor, but that he had another identity before that. Clues that suggest this theory: "The secret you've been running from ALL your life." If he were a later version of the Doctor, it would only be PART of his life that he'd been running. This could tie into the suggestions that the Doctor was there at the beginning of time travel, at the beginning of the Time Lords, and that he is more than just a regular Time Lord.
However, things that suggest this is NOT the case: "He's the one who broke the promise" This suggests that John Hurt's version of the Doctor had made the promise, meaning he had already been called The Doctor but forsook the name. Also, Clara's peek at the Time War book. She saw The Doctor's true name, which suggests that he used his true name while fighting the Time War and not his chosen name of The Doctor.
This leads us into the more likely theory in my opinion... that he is either Doctor 8.5, or a forgotten 9th regeneration. Either he is Paul McGann's 8th Doctor, aged, and no longer claiming the title. Or he is a regeneration between McGann and Eccleston, who faught the time war, but not in the name of The Doctor. So in a way, this would mean Eccleston is the 10th regenration, Tennat the 11th, and Smith the 12th, however, since he never claimed the title of The Doctor, Eccleston is still the 9th Doctor, Tennant the 10th, and Smith the 11th.
Any more theories? Thoughts? Which theories do you prefer/think are likely?
I kind of like the 0th Doctor theory. That Hartnell was actually the 1st regeneration, the first Doctor, but that he had another identity before that. Clues that suggest this theory: "The secret you've been running from ALL your life." If he were a later version of the Doctor, it would only be PART of his life that he'd been running. This could tie into the suggestions that the Doctor was there at the beginning of time travel, at the beginning of the Time Lords, and that he is more than just a regular Time Lord.
However, things that suggest this is NOT the case: "He's the one who broke the promise" This suggests that John Hurt's version of the Doctor had made the promise, meaning he had already been called The Doctor but forsook the name. Also, Clara's peek at the Time War book. She saw The Doctor's true name, which suggests that he used his true name while fighting the Time War and not his chosen name of The Doctor.
This leads us into the more likely theory in my opinion... that he is either Doctor 8.5, or a forgotten 9th regeneration. Either he is Paul McGann's 8th Doctor, aged, and no longer claiming the title. Or he is a regeneration between McGann and Eccleston, who faught the time war, but not in the name of The Doctor. So in a way, this would mean Eccleston is the 10th regenration, Tennat the 11th, and Smith the 12th, however, since he never claimed the title of The Doctor, Eccleston is still the 9th Doctor, Tennant the 10th, and Smith the 11th.
Any more theories? Thoughts? Which theories do you prefer/think are likely?
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I think this may shed some light on the subject.
http://www.tv3.ie/entertainment_article.php?locID=1.803.813&article=103035
It seems your third theory may be the most accurate one.0 -
I think this may shed some light on the subject.
http://www.tv3.ie/entertainment_article.php?locID=1.803.813&article=103035
It seems your third theory may be the most accurate one.
At this point, that article's speculation is just as baseless as anyone else's. Also, they have already stated they will work around the 13 regenerations thing, so that is a non-issue.0 -
I think this may shed some light on the subject.
http://www.tv3.ie/entertainment_article.php?locID=1.803.813&article=103035
It seems your third theory may be the most accurate one.
At this point, that article's speculation is just as baseless as anyone else's. Also, they have already stated they will work around the 13 regenerations thing, so that is a non-issue.
The 13 regenerations coda was a always a non issue I believe, it was only ever once commented on, I think during the McGann film. It's never really been part of the Doctor mythology, but for some bizarre reason that 12 regenerations has stuck like glue As you say, it's a non-issue.
I don't think the article is completely baseless, again the Time War is an imaginations of Davies and was never part of the Doctor Who Classic lore. It would make some sense that the Doctor who was responsible for that would in some way be held accountable and would forsake the title 'Doctor'. I still think a lot of it hinges on them running around and trying to create a storyline that doesn't include Chris Eccleston when he declined to be part of the 50th Anniversary...
That being said, I am hoping this is all mis-direct and all the living doctors will be there. I'm a little stumped, and disappointed that you are going to have a 50th celebration and have nothing about the other doctors.
As for Hartnell being the first regeneration, I hope not, that would change everything, when he was first written he was an alien, nothing more, Time Lords weren't even part of the story line, that was a plot device they used to regenerate the Doctor when Hartnell died.And since the Time War was never part of Classic Who, we are left with the 9th Doctor again being the lynchpin.. It will be ineresting to see how it all plays out. I still think the 2013 Christmas special will be the last of the 11th Doctor and Moffat though, Seems like the perfect time for them both to move on, especially with there being a new Executive Producer working alongside Moffat...0 -
It's been announced that Moffatt will still be show runner for season 8. All official like
It's also mostly certain that Smith will return for at least part of season 8, he's said multiple times he'll be back, though I don't think it's as written in stone as Moffatt's return as of now.
There are clues both pointing toward a Time War version of the Doctor, and either a far past or future version as John Hurt's role. I think the Time War scenario is most likely, especially since Clara saw the Doctor's true name in the Time War book. UNLESS it's a misdirect.
My question is then, if this is a Time War Doctor... when has the Doctor ever hidden what he did during the Time War? He's been pretty open about it to multiple companions, strangers, even bragged about it to the alien in The Doctor's Wife "Fear me, Doctor, I've kileld thousands of Time Lords." "Fear me, I killed them all."
We know for a fact he committed genocide against the Daleks, the Cybermen, and his own people. We've heard mention of plenty of other ugly, nasty things from the Time War in Tennant's last episode at the return of the Time Lords. And we know that he chose, again, as Tennant, to send the Time Lords back to their deaths (with the help of the Master).
So HOW could that be his big secret? If John Hurt is a Time War Doctor, that means something even bigger will be revealed. Something even more heinous. But what else could he possibly have done? Though he regrets his actions in the Time War, he ALWAYS claims them. He doesn't claim John Hurt's incarnation, and he doesn't claim that man's actions.0 -
I fnd this fascinating... but at the same time I want to scream "curse you Eccleston!!" and shake my fist in the air just because he's given Moffat the excuse he needs to make this into the X-Files....
*sigh*
BUT I'm fascinated to see how this will all play out...0 -
The other option is that he's the 12th Doctor, who did what 8 (or 9) couldn't do to end the Time War.
8 was wounded, 12 sent him on his way allowing him to become 9, and stayed to finish the Time War.
Plus, no one has said that only one of the versions of the Doctor was present at the Time War.0 -
I fnd this fascinating... but at the same time I want to scream "curse you Eccleston!!" and shake my fist in the air just because he's given Moffat the excuse he needs to make this into the X-Files....
*sigh*
BUT I'm fascinated to see how this will all play out...
Yeah I;m with you here, it's becoming less and less Doctor Who all the time. I think the fact that the ratings are higher than ever in the US and also the lowest they;ve been in years in the UK speaks volumes.
Hopefully next year with Moffat having to work with a new Exec Producer in Minchin it will tighten up story lines. Moffat is spread far too thin with Sherlock on the go as well.I think that's why, for me, his episodes under Davies were always tighter, just because there was someone to say yeah or nay...0 -
johnp, those are excellent points... I'd never thought of it that way, but it's true - there's nothing to stop the producers from putting together a Special where 3 or 4 Doctors actually fight the Time War concurrently.
mailaig, I didn't know that about the ratings... I'm not surprised either. And yes, I agree re Moffat. I didn't think I'd be sorry to see him go... he has come up with some truly original stories - Blink, of course being the stand out - but I have to say, I'm beginning to think we really need a change.
I hate to say that. I honestly never thought I'd ever *not* look forward to a new episode of Who, but this season I've had to remind myself to sit down and watch it.
That's just sad LOL0 -
I think this is The Doctor before he was The Doctor.0
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That's not a bad idea... it would be kinda cool... but based on what's been posted online, I think they've already determined he's an older version of Eccleston... not sure how they're going to do thatr, since Eccleston regenerated into Tennant at a relatively young age...0
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No one anywhere is saying he's an older Eccleston. He's either an older Paul McGann, or a lost regeneration between McGann and Eccleston, if he's a lost 9th/8.5 Time War Doctor and not a pre-Hartnell or future, post Smith version.
I wonder if maybe Hurt split off from the whole in some way, sort of like the Doctor-Donna, alternate 10? Maybe he split off from McGann's Doctor somehow, and then got put back together before he regenerated into Eccleston?0
