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Max muscle strength?

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3foldchord
3foldchord Posts: 2,918 Member
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I have noticed over this past month, that my OHP are going nowhere. I go up in weight, then down. It's 2 step forward and 1 1/2 steps backwards.
I am doing StrongLifts 5x5 & started my OHP at 30. I am on week 4 and just went DOWN again - I did 40# yesterday.

My squats have gone from 3-4 sessions all at 30# to going up 2# each time. I am fine with 2# each time. I just did 62# on squats and I an pleased with that.

I got to thinking..I am eating at a deficit still, so I'm not bodybuilding, making bigger muscles. Even wit eating high protein, my arm muscles are not gonna get more/bigger. so Maybe 40-50# is the maximum weight my arms can press right now?

Is there a maximum weight for muscles to lift while Eating in a deficit? I can't go up in weights forever without increasing muscles? right?

(right now my goal is "Lose body fat% while maintaining as much LBM as I can")
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  • ShmoozyQ
    ShmoozyQ Posts: 390 Member
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    bump. I've wondered this myself.
  • cmeiron
    cmeiron Posts: 1,599 Member
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    bump
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
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    overhead press is just the hardest lift to progress on, even if you are in a surplus.
    I can't go up in weights forever without increasing muscles? right?

    no not forever but as a beginner you can make very good strength gains without putting on much weight/muscle mass through neural adaptation and just getting better at performing the lifts.
  • 3foldchord
    3foldchord Posts: 2,918 Member
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    overhead press is just the hardest lift to progress on, even if you are in a surplus.
    I can't go up in weights forever without increasing muscles? right?

    no not forever but as a beginner you can make very good strength gains without putting on much weight/muscle mass through neural adaptation and just getting better at performing the lifts.

    THANKS. I really don't mind plodding along very very slowly... It's the constant going BACKWARDS that drives me crazy,
  • tameko2
    tameko2 Posts: 31,634 Member
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    overhead press is just the hardest lift to progress on, even if you are in a surplus.
    I can't go up in weights forever without increasing muscles? right?

    no not forever but as a beginner you can make very good strength gains without putting on much weight/muscle mass through neural adaptation and just getting better at performing the lifts.

    THANKS. I really don't mind plodding along very very slowly... It's the constant going BACKWARDS that drives me crazy,

    Yeah what Hendrix said. You have a LOT of possible strength in your existing muscle mass, you just need to teach your brain to access it.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    This is a kind of 'how long is a piece of string' question unfortunately. You progress on a deficit should continue with diminishing returns. The extent of progress will depend on a bunch of things including your diet, age, routine, gender, genetics, LBM etc.

    Strength gains are mainly neuromuscular as Hendrix says but the gains are impacted a lot by the above factors when you start getting 'up there' with the weights.

    OHP is a b!tch.
  • MinimalistShoeAddict
    MinimalistShoeAddict Posts: 1,946 Member
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    overhead press is just the hardest lift to progress on, even if you are in a surplus.
    I can't go up in weights forever without increasing muscles? right?

    no not forever but as a beginner you can make very good strength gains without putting on much weight/muscle mass through neural adaptation and just getting better at performing the lifts.

    Don't feel bad. I am eating near maintenance (very tiny surplus) and have been stalled on OHP for about a month, while making progress in all my other lifts. I deloaded a while back (and focused on form) which I am hoping will help break my plateau soon.

    You will progress, it will just take time. I agree with Sarauk and others about it being easier once you are no longer on a deficit. Keep lifting and it will pay off in the long run!
  • jlapey
    jlapey Posts: 1,850 Member
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    Here hoping that even though i'm not progressing in the amount of weight I am lifting (OHP) that my efforts are still progressing my fat loss. *crosses fingers*
  • 3foldchord
    3foldchord Posts: 2,918 Member
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    Here hoping that even though i'm not progressing in the amount of weight I am lifting (OHP) that my efforts are still progressing my fat loss. *crosses fingers*

    this is my hope as well.
  • Will_Thrust_For_Candy
    Will_Thrust_For_Candy Posts: 6,109 Member
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    I can't remember if you have a home gym or if you go to an actual gym but perhaps try a smaller increment of weight for each progression. You mentioned 2lbs for squats.....do you have the ability to increase OHP by 1lb per time?

    I have a home gym and I use contractor size rolls of masking tape for my "fractionals". They are 0.5lbs each roll so I can increase on my upper body lifts by 1lb at a time. You could probably even get smaller rolls that are 0.25lb per roll. I know it's not much weight, but progress is progress :smile:

    But whatever you do, keep at it! I have been doing SL for 24 weeks and I just finally this morning hit 58lbs on OHP :bigsmile:

    OHP is a b!tch!!!!


    ETA.....ladies for sure your effort on your lifts is aiding your fat loss efforts! Just keep grinding and DON'T GIVE UP! You will do it!
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    I love 5x5 for strength and beginners but I would not rule out using some other rep ranges too. If you are pressed for time 3x5 and 3x10 for example may be an idea. I've found that varying rep ranges has helped my 1rm for SOHP in the past. (also, trying some db's instead of bb's)
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    Jim Wendler says when you get stuck, go back. Recalculate and start back and work up again. By the time you get there again, you should be able to surpass it. Of course, every body has a limit or people would be lifting elephants and city blocks and crazy things like that. Don't know. I'm stuck with bench press right now, so I'm stepping back and working back up. I'll let you know.

    yep, normally 10% deload however SOHP is just a tough nut to crack. Most people will be starting to fail fairly often at around 2/3 BW. And doing the same thing over and over again and failing can be very disheartening (especially to beginners) which is why I also mentioned switching up those rep ranges :smile:
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Jim Wendler says when you get stuck, go back. Recalculate and start back and work up again. By the time you get there again, you should be able to surpass it. Of course, every body has a limit or people would be lifting elephants and city blocks and crazy things like that. Don't know. I'm stuck with bench press right now, so I'm stepping back and working back up. I'll let you know.

    yep, normally 10% deload however SOHP is just a tough nut to crack. Most people will be starting to fail fairly often at around 2/3 BW. And doing the same thing over and over again and failing can be very disheartening (especially to beginners) which is why I also mentioned switching up those rep ranges :smile:

    Having been stuck on OHP myself a few times, I like the idea of mixing up the rep ranges.
  • 3foldchord
    3foldchord Posts: 2,918 Member
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    Jim Wendler says when you get stuck, go back. Recalculate and start back and work up again. By the time you get there again, you should be able to surpass it. Of course, every body has a limit or people would be lifting elephants and city blocks and crazy things like that. Don't know. I'm stuck with bench press right now, so I'm stepping back and working back up. I'll let you know.

    yep, normally 10% deload however SOHP is just a tough nut to crack. Most people will be starting to fail fairly often at around 2/3 BW. And doing the same thing over and over again and failing can be very disheartening (especially to beginners) which is why I also mentioned switching up those rep ranges :smile:

    I get up close to 50# (45-55), stall, deload down to 40#, build back up to about the same, stall, deload today I will be repeating the 40# as a max-p (taking a light day due to weekend migraine... )
    Hopefully this time, the third time, I will be able make some real,progress on ,y way back UP
    By switching up rep, you mean doing 3x5 instead of 5x5?

    And "2/3 BW" I assume is 2/3 of my Body Weight. I stall at 1/3. Maybe my goal should be to get to 2/3 of my BW
  • nexangelus
    nexangelus Posts: 2,080 Member
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    Most people will be starting to fail fairly often at around 2/3 BW. And doing the same thing over and over again and failing can be very disheartening (especially to beginners) which is why I also mentioned switching up those rep ranges :smile:

    I have found the volume lifts ( a few sets of 10 reps at lighter weight) also help to move up a notch when it comes time to increase, but then I am following Wendler's now and found the madcow system worked well for stalled lifts back when I was doing stronglifts 5 x 5...it is a time and patience thing, bench and OHP for me have taken time...
  • Will_Thrust_For_Candy
    Will_Thrust_For_Candy Posts: 6,109 Member
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    Yes actually, now that a few of you mention it, I also did push for extra reps at each weight and it did help to transition it.

    Smaller incremental weight increases along with playing with volume are definitely great ideas to help push through :smile:
  • tross0924
    tross0924 Posts: 909 Member
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    One thing I'll do if I hit a wall is to hold at that weight and work for more reps. So if you can complete 5x5 at 45, stay there for a few weeks and try to make it to 5x6 or 5x7. Then bump up to the 50 and shoot for 5x4. If you make it bring that up to 5x5 over a couple of weeks. And then repeat to get to 55.
  • 3foldchord
    3foldchord Posts: 2,918 Member
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    One thing I'll do if I hit a wall is to hold at that weight and work for more reps. So if you can complete 5x5 at 45, stay there for a few weeks and try to make it to 5x6 or 5x7. Then bump up to the 50 and shoot for 5x4. If you make it bring that up to 5x5 over a couple of weeks. And then repeat to get to 55.

    I think this is what I'll do. It's was I did when I started squats and 30# left in awful pain. I stayed at 30# until I could do EASILY for 1 day of 5x5 then did a day of 30# at more reps
  • Gwyn1969
    Gwyn1969 Posts: 181 Member
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    You just posted another thread about being really hungry. OHP is the most sensitive of all the lifts to this. It may start to go up once you are more fed. Also, be sure to get micro plates (you can do a DIY version or just order some on amazon). Adding a pound or two to your press and keeping the volume the same is better than simply increasing your reps. The latter will work, but the former will work better.
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