None of the Bible was written directly by any eyewitness, as stated in the introductions to the books of the New Testament. Nihil obstat and Imprimatur!

We've covered this and we're going in circles again. I believe in the eyewitness testimonies of the apostles. Their account of the life of Jesus was told to many people and eventually written down. I see proof of the life of Jesus in the New Testament. I cannot read the bible, look at my children, or the sky, ocean, trees, etc and come to any other conclusion than there is a God. I see God in all things. I even see God at work during times of tragedy. I can feel his love, just as I can feel the love of my parents, my husband, and my children. I don't need Him to appear to me and perform a miracle in front of my eyes for me to believe.

I really was just kidding when saying I was up for hundreds of additional comments on this thread. Pretty sure we've covered everything. I've enjoyed the debate.

But eyewitness accounts of miracles leave me flat. I have zero reason to believe their authenticity.

I've struggled with believing some of the miracles, myself. But then I remind myself that if I believe Jesus is the son of God and that he did indeed die, rise again, and ascend into heaven, why couldn't He have performed all the other miracles that seem far-fetched?

What I hear you saying just now is that you believe in the account of the Bible because you believe in the person of Jesus Christ. That is exactly the opposite of what you have been arguing all along: that you believe in God because of the account in the Bible.
Giving credence to the Bible because you have had experience of God moving in your life makes perfect sense to me. Saying that you believe in God because the Bible "proves" his existence is nonsense as far as I'm concerned. Might as well believe in Voldemort.

I think I started out with using the bible as "proof" because people don't want to hear my personal experience as proof of God. I certainly didn't intend to leave that out, though. I try to separate Patti's own feelings and experiences and try to use the bible, science, and other means to argue for the existence of God. But, you're right. The reason I believe in the bible, in the eyewitnesses to the life of Jesus is because of the exprience of God moving in my life.

My experience isn't "proof" for anyone but me. But for me, it's more than enough.

Exactly. That's why I don't use my own experience when having debates on the existence of God. But, I can debate it without (even successfully at times).

I disagree that you've been successful. You've set yourself an impossible task that God doesn't even bother with.

Oh, I wasn't suggesting that I've been successful here. That's why I said "at times". I've had atheists on MFP send me a message saying my arguments in this thread have been the best they've heard, though. I think God would be happy I "bothered".

The God who can be proved by the type of arguments you've been making is a false God. That's the God who existence I've been arguing against. Better to believe in no God than a false God.

Sorry. I can see how that came across as insulting. I have no doubt that this is the same God I believe in:

I cannot . . . . look at my children, or the sky, ocean, trees, etc and come to any other conclusion than there is a God. I see God in all things. I even see God at work during times of tragedy. I can feel his love, just as I can feel the love of my parents, my husband, and my children. I don't need Him to appear to me and perform a miracle in front of my eyes for me to believe.

And I also have no doubt that this is not an accurate way to describe God:

There is proof of God, through the life of Jesus, in the bible.

It is that inaccurate way of describing God that I believe is a false image of God.

Oh I believe that too. But not because the Bible "proves" it.

Gotta go for a while. Catch you in a little while. Somehow I think I've let myself open up enough to have a real conversation. Doesn't happen often and I just want you to know that I'm not ignoring you, just out of internet range!

The Bible is useless for proving his existence because it's a perfect unbroken circle.

How do you know that God exists? Because the Bible tells me so.

And how do you know the Bible is true? Because it's the word of God.