First Tri with Marathon Training Plan?

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TriLifter
TriLifter Posts: 1,283 Member
Okay, here's the deal...my ultimate goal is IMLP in 2015; but in the meantime, I've got some other things to mark off my bucket list. I just started training for a marathon (October) and there's a small, women-only sprint tri coming up in September (first tri for me EVER). I was thinking about sticking to my marathon training plan and using the 2 days of cross training per week for swimming and biking. I'm not worried about the bike aspect, but am kinda starting the swim from scratch (my best friend is a swimmer and will coach me--I have access to a pool at my gym).

What do you think? Is three months of swimming as cross training enough to get me ready for a .5 mile swim or am I delusional?

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  • scott091501
    scott091501 Posts: 1,260 Member
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    To do a sprint? Sure. Maybe throw in a spin class here or there. For the record I am not pro spin class if what you're looking to do is maximize your tri performance.

    You're not going to podium in all likelihood, but I don't get the feeling that's your goal either.
  • TriLifter
    TriLifter Posts: 1,283 Member
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    To do a sprint? Sure. Maybe throw in a spin class here or there. For the record I am not pro spin class if what you're looking to do is maximize your tri performance.

    You're not going to podium in all likelihood, but I don't get the feeling that's your goal either.

    Nope, definitely not my goal to podium--just to finish not dead last. Kinda using it as a starting point for my half then full training. Wanted to make sure I wasn't completely insane by doing that.
  • mirthfuldragon
    mirthfuldragon Posts: 124 Member
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    What do you think? Is three months of swimming as cross training enough to get me ready for a .5 mile swim or am I delusional?

    It depends on what you mean by "ready," and in any event, the answer is probably "no."

    With cycling and running, training is usually "run more" or "ride more." With swimming, it's all about technique. Swimming one day per week is simply not enough to make you a decent swimmer. The general rule to see progress in the water is usually at least three times per week.

    On the plus side, swimming doesn't tax the body in the same way that running does, so you should be able to make progress without hampering your running.
  • scott091501
    scott091501 Posts: 1,260 Member
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    To do a sprint? We're talking less than 1k meters, and I know here some of the female only/beginner sprints are under 500m. One day a week isn't going to make you fast or even faster than you are now but you'll be able to handle the distance.
  • trijoe
    trijoe Posts: 729 Member
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    Okay, here's the deal...my ultimate goal is IMLP in 2015; but in the meantime, I've got some other things to mark off my bucket list. I just started training for a marathon (October) and there's a small, women-only sprint tri coming up in September (first tri for me EVER). I was thinking about sticking to my marathon training plan and using the 2 days of cross training per week for swimming and biking. I'm not worried about the bike aspect, but am kinda starting the swim from scratch (my best friend is a swimmer and will coach me--I have access to a pool at my gym).

    What do you think? Is three months of swimming as cross training enough to get me ready for a .5 mile swim or am I delusional?

    If you ask me, a sprint tri is a great stress releaser for your marathon. I've done that very same thing. And just like you're saying, I used the cross training to get tri-ready. Race day is a really nice change from the endless Saturday long runs. As long as you can swim, you can swim a triathlon swim leg. Enjoy!!!
  • TriLifter
    TriLifter Posts: 1,283 Member
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    What do you think? Is three months of swimming as cross training enough to get me ready for a .5 mile swim or am I delusional?

    It depends on what you mean by "ready," and in any event, the answer is probably "no."

    With cycling and running, training is usually "run more" or "ride more." With swimming, it's all about technique. Swimming one day per week is simply not enough to make you a decent swimmer. The general rule to see progress in the water is usually at least three times per week.

    On the plus side, swimming doesn't tax the body in the same way that running does, so you should be able to make progress without hampering your running.

    I'm planning on swimming and biking 2x/week (doubles both days) and have a coach for technique.
  • Cgirlish
    Cgirlish Posts: 263 Member
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    If your goal is just to finish ... I say yes definatlely and go for it. my first tri, I didnt even know how to swim freestyle, I was comfortable in the water, growing up with a pool in our back yard, and my goal was just to finish.

    gook luck

    Connie
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
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    Given that the goal for your first tri is to cross the finish line with a smile on your face I think you should be ready.

    In addition to your pool time & riding you should also do some bricks (running right after a bike ride) suffice it to say your first one should be comical (your legs may feel a little rubbery) but the point of them is for your body to adapt to changing from using one muscle group to the other.

    Rehearse transitions too, developing a routine will take away a fair bit of stress on race day.
  • TriLifter
    TriLifter Posts: 1,283 Member
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    Given that the goal for your first tri is to cross the finish line with a smile on your face I think you should be ready.

    In addition to your pool time & riding you should also do some bricks (running right after a bike ride) suffice it to say your first one should be comical (your legs may feel a little rubbery) but the point of them is for your body to adapt to changing from using one muscle group to the other.

    Rehearse transitions too, developing a routine will take away a fair bit of stress on race day.

    Bricks and transitions. Got it--thank you!!!
  • MDLNH
    MDLNH Posts: 587 Member
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    Given that the goal for your first tri is to cross the finish line with a smile on your face I think you should be ready.

    In addition to your pool time & riding you should also do some bricks (running right after a bike ride) suffice it to say your first one should be comical (your legs may feel a little rubbery) but the point of them is for your body to adapt to changing from using one muscle group to the other.

    Rehearse transitions too, developing a routine will take away a fair bit of stress on race day.

    *When it comes to bricks . . . ease into them. Do a 5-mile bike ride and a 1 mile run. Then increase each one proportionately until you reach the distances for the race. Also, never do them out of order - Swim, Bike Run. You can to do Swim & Bike or Bike and Run, but not Swim then Run. And defintely practice transitions . . . Good Luck !!

    PS> my 1st sprint triathlon is June 23rd :-)
  • daj150
    daj150 Posts: 815 Member
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    Distance running and triathlon training...that is what I do. But since you are doing a triathlon for first time, here is some advice for sprint distance. If you are following a regular marathon plan, then you are probably good to go with that.

    These are all geared toward Sprint Distance:
    1) Jump in the pool, and can you swim without stopping for 30-45 minutes. You may swim .5 miles a lot faster than this, but in the open water you will be treading water until the swim starts, and if you need to stop for any reason...like someone kicking you in the head, you will probably need to tread to fix your goggles...so the 30-45 is more about the endurance aspect, not speed
    2) Find somewhere you can try open water swimming. Pool swimming is NOTHING like open water. You really don't want the triathlon day to be your first open water swim...I can't stress this enough
    3) Biking: If you already bike outdoors, then you don't really need to practice outdoor biking (I did for my first tri because a road bike is nothing like a mountain bike...except for it having a seat, a frame, and 2 wheels).
    4. Bricks: This isn't too crazy. Assuming you are swimming at the gym, do your swim, get out and change into biking stuff as quickly as possible, then hop onto the spin bike for about 30-45 minutes. Do this a few times.
    5. Bricks: Make sure to get a couple bricks where you spin or bike for 30-45 minutes at race pace, then hop off the bike and as quickly as possible transition to your running gear and hit the road or treadmill. It can be a very weird feeling going from biking to running (I won't lie, my first time, I collapsed on the treadmill and was really embarrassed, lesson learned)
    6. Practice your transitions...they can really affect your overall time

    Most importantly, have a killer time, and good luck! If you have never swam before, I also recommend the following:
    * If you can swim for 30 minutes without too much effort, then ignore this. If you find it tough to swim a lap without needing a break, then you might want to swim 3 times a week.
  • watermstry
    watermstry Posts: 41 Member
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    Just asked this question in the running forum, and your answers have been helpful.

    I am doing my second half marathon August 10th, and want to do my third sprint tri in July. Wondering if people think it would be unwise to do the tri on July 27th - too close to the half? Also, if my main goal is success in the half, should I still try to fit in two swimming and two biking workouts on top of 5 runs? Should I cut out a run?
  • scott091501
    scott091501 Posts: 1,260 Member
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    Just asked this question in the running forum, and your answers have been helpful.

    I am doing my second half marathon August 10th, and want to do my third sprint tri in July. Wondering if people think it would be unwise to do the tri on July 27th - too close to the half? Also, if my main goal is success in the half, should I still try to fit in two swimming and two biking workouts on top of 5 runs? Should I cut out a run?

    My opinion is you can get in the 2 swim workouts for sure. Use them to drill in form and comfort at the distance for your tri. Work on a 2 beat kick so that it doesn't tax your legs much, if at all. The biking is really a judgment call. If your goal is the half mary then I'd say drop tri workouts if something is going to be dropped. I think 2 bike workouts would be ok, but listen to your body. If you're having a problem with recovery you're going to have to address it by upping cals, pulling back hours, or pulling back intensity.
  • daj150
    daj150 Posts: 815 Member
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    Just asked this question in the running forum, and your answers have been helpful.

    I am doing my second half marathon August 10th, and want to do my third sprint tri in July. Wondering if people think it would be unwise to do the tri on July 27th - too close to the half? Also, if my main goal is success in the half, should I still try to fit in two swimming and two biking workouts on top of 5 runs? Should I cut out a run?

    If you have experience under your belt with both tri's and half marathons, and you are focusing on a sprint triathlons, then the training plan for you is pretty straight forward. First off, I wouldn't worry about how close the 2 events are. Second, if your focus is the half, then I would need to know what your goals actually are in order to give you a good recommendation for fitting in your tri-training. For example, if your half marathon training plan is geared around serious speed improvement, then on your tempo days you should toss an easy bike in. If you are doing intervals, I would toss in a your swim on that day. It also depends on your strengths in the tri. If you are good at biking, then you only need to get 2 bike sessions in a week. If you are good with swimming, same. If you are good with both, the plan is even easier. Let me know.
  • watermstry
    watermstry Posts: 41 Member
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    Thank you both for your help.

    My main goal for the half marathon is to have a more consistent pace. I do want my overall pace to be faster, but I didn't have enough endurance. The pace in my second half of the race was over a minute slower than the first half, and I walked a lot the last 2-3 miles.

    I was thinking of using the intermediate Hal Higdon plan as a base. In that plan there are intervals every other week, alternating with a tempo run.

    Swimming is my weakness.
  • daj150
    daj150 Posts: 815 Member
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    Thank you both for your help.

    My main goal for the half marathon is to have a more consistent pace. I do want my overall pace to be faster, but I didn't have enough endurance. The pace in my second half of the race was over a minute slower than the first half, and I walked a lot the last 2-3 miles.

    I was thinking of using the intermediate Hal Higdon plan as a base. In that plan there are intervals every other week, alternating with a tempo run.

    Swimming is my weakness.

    Running and consistency. You have 4 options here, 2 are my least favorite. Option 1, least favorite, is to treadmill train. Typically people will end up training slower on the treadmill, but then run faster during a road race. Option 2, least favorite, point-to-point timed runs. This basically means to have a 3.1, 5, 6.2, 8, 10 and 12 mile road course that you run each time, and you work on building a consistent OVERALL time. Okay, so the best way to get consistent is a track. Go to a local high school, middle school, college, or public (if your town rocks) track and work on intervals and pace runs here. Option 4 is the same thing, except on flat-ish roads. Personally, there isn't a track near me, I hate treadmills, and the flattest road near me is flat and uneven for about 400 yards...so my miles times vary drastically, since one mile I will be all downhill at such a steep decline that I am basically sprinting not fall over, and the next mile I am on such a huge incline I am more walking up the hill instead of running. A mile time varying by up to a minute isn't really that big a deal...the more important thing is to focus on endurance. As your endurance improves, your mile times will naturally get more consistent.

    If swimming is tough, you NEED to swim 3 times a week until you can do the following:
    1. Swim the race distance + 10-15 minutes
    2. You have done at least a few swim to bike/spin bricks

    I'll see if I can find a better half training plan that will incorporate more interval and pace training. Every-other-week interval training is not something I personally agree with, as it is vital for so many aspects of your race in all distances.

    Good luck!
  • scott091501
    scott091501 Posts: 1,260 Member
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    Thank you both for your help.

    My main goal for the half marathon is to have a more consistent pace. I do want my overall pace to be faster, but I didn't have enough endurance. The pace in my second half of the race was over a minute slower than the first half, and I walked a lot the last 2-3 miles.

    I was thinking of using the intermediate Hal Higdon plan as a base. In that plan there are intervals every other week, alternating with a tempo run.

    Swimming is my weakness.

    Sounds to me like you took it out at too fast a pace and weren't able to hold it.

    The answer is to run by HR or RPE. I prefer using an HR monitor. It gives you a readout that isn't skewed by emotions. With HR, and no 220-your age isn't an accurate way to set HR zones, you can figure out where your threshold is and what your race plan should be regardless of the terrain you're on. Pace is not a viable metric to set a race plan by. HR, power, or RPE on the bike and HR or RPE on the run.

    To increase aerobic endurance you run 2-3 times a week in Zone 2 on a 5 zone scale, and then add in speed work. Track, treadmill, road, it doesn't matter. A heart rate monitor with GPS and a plan is all you need to increase endurance and speed.

    Oh and to get markedly better in the water, yes you have to swim 3 to 4 times a week, but you have to ask yourself where is the best bang for your buck. You can go months swimming that many times a week and you'd do well to eek out :05 to :10 per 100m. In a sprint that gains you maybe a minute, in a half iron that gets you a couple minutes. You spend that time on the bike or on the road and the ROI is significantly better. Until the swim is what is keeping you off the podium or out of elite status make sure you can complete the swim in a respectable time and focus on the 2 disciplines where ROI is greater.