what is with americans and god????

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Hi, as an Australian I never even heard the word " atheist " until my mid twenties. we don't get dragged up with all that god **** here in Australia, it is not in our schools and we don't have our leaders saying things like " for god and country " so to me it is all rather strange that being an atheist in America is such a big deal! I couldn't stand having that crap shoved down my throat by the whole dam country including your own leader, America is so radical in religion I see them the same as Muslim countries, both think they have the right god??? anyway Australia has been free of that garbage but it is getting worse now that we have so many boat people coming daily and they are all Muslim. our country has changed so fast and soon I feel Australia will also be a radical religious place within 20-30 years but Muslim. :sad:

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  • mahanaibu
    mahanaibu Posts: 505 Member
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    Lucky you! I don't really know why this country is much more religious than other developed countries. It wouldn't bother me at all if the others weren't trying so hard to push their beliefs on others.
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
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    We have a high population of Christians in this country. If you want to get elected you have to be able to get votes. If you want votes you have to be able to say the things that will get you support from your base.

    So if you happen to be a Christian running for public office all you have to do is proudly state that fact and people will do more than just vote for you. They will actually speak out in your defense if you should happen to do something like lie to the country to start a war.

    We are supposed to have a separation of church and state but I honestly don't think an atheist will be president at any point during my life time.
  • ScatteredThoughts
    ScatteredThoughts Posts: 3,562 Member
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    The fact that politicians have to lie about their religion beliefs, and actually do so, is very disheartening.


    An interesting statement from the Atheism for Dummies book:

    "...a silent poll released by the Secular Coalition for America in the same year found that 28 of the 535 members of Congress didn’t believe in a higher power."

    I wouldn't be surprised if that number is actually too low.

    And the US Constitution states:

    "...but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."


    Unfortunately, I do not think this expectation of appeasing religious voters will end any time soon.
  • ahviendha
    ahviendha Posts: 1,291 Member
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    yeah..true! this is why i want to move out of the country again.

    we have "under god" on our money, in our pledge of allegiance which is recited every day in public schools, and the list goes on.

    i live in a very religious area and feel i have to hide my atheism.

    additionally, i wish the religious people around here would care for politics, other cultures, and what's going on in our world. they seem content to live in little bubbles, and when i try to talk about my love of indian food, or my interest in learning spanish, or the financial collapse, or traveling anywhere beyond a 2-3 hour drive, their eyes go dead.

    complacency! that's all i see in the religious folk around here. sigh. that's my rant :devil:
  • halflife1978
    halflife1978 Posts: 47 Member
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    Most of the country isn't crazy religious. The stats I saw were from a decade ago but it's anywhere from 35-45% of the people polled say they go to regular church services. And of the ones that do go regularly, most of them aren't rabid fundamentalists.

    So that's a good thing.

    The bad thing is that the small amount of rabid fundamentalists have a VERY BIG MOUTH. And even though only 40% go to church regularly, somewhere about 80% tend to believe in God in some form or fashion. It's cultural background at this point but it does affect your general slate of beliefs.

    So you've got this 80% of believers with half of those active and a few progressives in favor of separation of church and state that are drowned out by the few extremists loudly clamoring for candidates that believe their way (and dominating the airwaves) so the political groups think that the extreme Christian viewpoint is what the people want, and people vote for the party their culture determines they vote for whether or not they actually believe in everything they stand for. Case in point: Evangelicals voting for Romney, while before I've heard them say the naaaastiest things about Mormons.

    Also we have an issue in USA of not voting FOR a candidate but voting AGAINST the other guy.

    Moreover, because of that 80% religiosity the 20% of us nonreligious or the ones that come right out and say atheist are seen as an "other" and not to be trusted. Campaigning is dirty and you can bet they'll turn that every which way to make any atheist candidate seem like a person who will do anything from leading the country down a wrong path to hastening the apocalypse.
  • gypsylouiseporter
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    well guys I must say I feel for you. I even see it in movies, even sitting down watching a dvd if it is an American movie ( most are ) it has so much god crap in the under tones, its rather weird from an outsiders view because I can look at it and think " wow how can people believe this fairy tale stuff " I even said about it to my husband " we got married in the back yard " most people in Australia get married in parks ect. anyway back to it, he said that America was founded by the religious radicals from England, makes me glad we came from convicts lol. thing is religion is dangerous and so many things are religious run, mostly wars may I say ( in gods name ) and ( we have the god given right ) I heard those from some guy over there about guns??? we don't have guns here, you can have a gun but you have to go through a lot of paper work to get one and the rules are very strict but we also have very few deaths from shooting, it is much better that you cant just go and buy a gun here. I must say I couldn't live like that with a mix of crazy religious people running around with " the right to bare arms " scary stuff.
  • halflife1978
    halflife1978 Posts: 47 Member
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    It's an odd culture for certain. I try not to interact much with it, mainly because I'm a n awkward nerd who prefers the indoors, but it is difficult for me to comprehend how the argument for every incident of gun violence is "this wouldn't have happened if we had more guns"
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
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    America was born from rebellion. When they were writing the constitution they were trying to speak to the future. We have multiple writings from many of the countries founders expressing concern that this knew country they were creating would trample the rights of the people in the same way their own country had done with them. When speaking about this very topic Thomas Jefferson once wrote, "People should not fear their governments. Governments should fear the people."

    When the original constitution was drafted it was rejected because it did not contain a bill of rights. When the bill of rights was drafted the first amendment granted freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly and the right to petition the government for grievances. They put these in the first amendment as a reminder that government rules with the consent of the governed. There are certain rights that people have by default and the government must always respect those rights or it is overreaching its authority and therefor becoming a tyranny.

    The second amendment is the right to bear arms because at that time the framers were concerned that if the people did not have any means to defend themselves then the government would simply revoke the aforementioned rights via force. They did not want future leaders who would take their place to subvert all their efforts to create a land of liberty for white land owners. I hate to have to add that last part but it is necessary. The constitution had to be amended so that its protections could apply to women and nonwhites. Anyways it was believed at the time that granting the people the right to bear arms would serve as a prophylactic measure against future would be usurpers. It is also mentioned that a country is far harder to take over if every single citizen is armed. This would serve as a deterrent against forces both inside and outside the country.

    Let us not forget also that at that time there were many people who used hunting as a primary method of feeding their families. Protecting their right to bear arms gave them security in the knowledge that they would be able to have some level of self sufficiency in an otherwise trying and difficult time in history.

    That is a brief history of how the second amendment ended up being put where it was and it is up to each individual to decide if these reason are now antiquated or if they still hold true. It is true that ever citizen does not have to hunt for their food to survive anymore. I think there is something to be said for the idea that in many ways the second amendment does protect the first amendment. For that reason I can understand why the ownership of a gun should be a protected right of every American citizen that has demonstrated a competence with its safety and respect for the rule of law and rights of the people around them.
  • gypsylouiseporter
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    I hate to point it out but it may be peoples right to have guns but they still abuse it!!!! come to Australia and see how many shootings we have!!! i have the " right " to own a gun, i also have " the right " to not get shot from nutters, so point being as long as people are crazy nut jobs who kill others i think they gave up that right!!
  • theCarlton
    theCarlton Posts: 1,344 Member
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    This is my great-grandfather (times 10)'s story http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Southwick He and his wife arrived here about 15+ years after the first Mayflower voyage (1620). They died trying to escape religious persecution and within 3 days of each other. They were persecuted, tortured, and almost had their younger children sold into slavery because they didn't attend Puritan church (because they were Quakers). Just so you get some idea that this has been a pervasive problem since inception. This country is founded on hardcore, religious, rigid ideology.
  • emaren
    emaren Posts: 934 Member
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    I'm British, but live in California....

    Until I moved to the US, I had never heard any religious conversation at all at any place of work.

    Until I moved here I had worked in the UK, Singapore, Australia, Holland and for a while as some sort of globally roving techie.

    In the past 14 years I have been asked multiple times 'So, which church do you do to?'.

    The first time I was thrown so badly off guard that I choked on my coffee. I explained that I do not go to church and the person asking the question told me that I obviously had not found the right one and I should come along to his, he gave me a business card from the church !

    I mumbled a thanks and pocketed the card.

    On the Friday he reminded me that I should come along, I was really not ready for this even then, but I tried to explain that I do not believe in god or gods. He still felt that I needed to come along.

    The invites became more and more regular and I started to avoid him.

    Luckily there was a 'reduction in force' a few months later and he was canned.

    But in the last fourteen years the question comes up again and again, I have a stock answer - 'I'm an Atheist, I prefer to do something useful on a Sunday'. Which either gets rid of them, or as has been the case half a dozen times, they try to convert me or debate me. I often find leaflets on my desk or shoved under my office door' from the god botherers.....
  • staubng
    staubng Posts: 39 Member
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    It won't be too long before America takes on a similar attitude. Many if not most of the atheists in this country identify because they grew away from a previously theistic upbringing. It will only be a matter of time that as these first gen atheists raise their children to be wise in their skepticism and exploration will it become a dying taboo. In my opinion.
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
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    I doubt I will live long enough to see America out grow religion but it is nice to think about.