Is this normal during a reset?

calypso11
calypso11 Posts: 24 Member
Super generic subject I know, but I appreciate any insight you could provide me!

I've posted here a few times in the past about my weight loss story. I was hovering at the high end of a normal weight/slightly overweight for my height for most of my teenage years and college. Upon leaving college and starting a full-time job I ended up losing twenty-five pounds over the course of about seven months without really trying. At my lowest weigh I was 5'3.5 (I used to think I was 5'4, but I've found out otherwise!) and weighed 114. I felt and looked great.

This is where things went off the rails. I was overjoyed with my weight loss, but I started to get worried about being "skinny fat" and wanted to start exercising. I started alternating between a C25K program and Jillian Michaels DVDs, and eventually moved on to alternating between running and Insanity. Six months later, I weighed nine pounds more and had gained an inch or more everywhere. I did not look like someone who had been exercising six days a week for six months and I felt horrible.

I came on here and posted an impassioned plea for help. Surprise, surprise... I wasn't eating enough. I was only eating at max about 1800 calories a day (on a "heavy" day, most days were around 1650-1700) while probably burning 2200 or more. On the few days during those months that I really splurged (family reunion and birthdays), my body probably hoarded the goods like crazy.

So after posting that thread back in November I decided I needed a serious break from exercising. I cut out everything except for a thirty minute walk every night. Over the next two months I went back down to 121, and then stalled for another five months. I filled out heybales' spreadsheet and found out I still wasn't eating at my TDEE (I was eating around 1535, TDEE was 1635). So around the middle of May I decided to bump up to TDEE and see what happened. For those of you wondering how in the world my TDEE is so low, my bf% based on the spreadsheet is only 20.88% (average of the two numbers) and I don't do any regularly scheduled exercise other than a walk every night.

Much to my happiness I didn't experience any sudden weight gain and for about a month and a half it seemed like I had experienced no affects from the increase. However, over the past three weeks I have started to notice a very gradual increase. 121 to 121.2. 121.2 to 121.4. 121.4 5o 121.6. For the past week I have now been at 122 and I haven't seen 121 since the end of June.

So now I'm slightly confused. I religiously log everything I eat and measure things that I know I have the tendency to underestimate (like cereal and ice cream) so I'm not super worried about incorrect counting. I weigh myself in the morning on normal/low sodium days after using the restroom and before eating. I haven't read any stories here (so far) that describe what I have experienced during my relatively small reset and I want to see if this is within the realm of normal. Is it normal not to gain any weight for a while and then slowly start creeping up? I've been doing this now for eight weeks and have been gaining for the last three. Should I just keep going until the weight stops creeping? Or does this slow gain suggest that this isn't actually my TDEE and I technically need to eat less? I really don't like the thought of that last option because 1635 really isn't that much (in my opinion) and I don't relish the idea of needing to eat less than that the rest of my life if I keep my current lifestyle.

Replies

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    How close or far apart are the 2 bodyfat calcs?
    And do you recognize one of those body measurements as being a body part that you've always noticed seems to be out of proportion to rest of body? (like skinny calves for bigger thighs/hips, or wrist compared to forearm)

    Measure food, or weigh food? Liquids is only thing truly having calories based on volume or measuring. Everything else, even ice-cream, calorie label is based on weight, even if they do give a measuring value for ease of use, and sadly great potential for inaccuracy.

    And as a woman, your BMR actually goes up and down through the month, as much as 200 calories. So yes you can have some weeks of gain, extra water retention.

    But it indeed could be the BF% spread is decent enough, and you are truly not avg but more towards one end, and less LBM than avg would give, therefore smaller TDEE.

    If you changed the BF stat to the higher calculated value, how much does the TDEE change?

    It also may be that the range of calorie burn assigned to each level in the activity calc based on your BMR, is actually on the high side, and you burn on the low side. But, the changing above would cause lower burn here too, so that is corrected.
    What kind of levels and time did you use in the activity calculator?
  • calypso11
    calypso11 Posts: 24 Member
    The Navy calc is 21.36 and the Covert Bailey calc is 20.40, so really not too far apart at a .96 difference? I don't feel like there is anything about my body that is incredibly out of proportion, but I do feel like my thighs are definitely the biggest part of my body relative to my overall size. For example, I have a 24 inch waist, and 20.5/21 inch thighs (respectively). The maximum girth of one calf is 13.5, but I couldn't tell you whether or not that is skinny compared to my thigh.

    I should have said weigh and not measure, because you are right there is a difference! I do typically weigh my food. However, there were maybe seven ice cream jaunts over this period where I eye-balled (based on previous weighing) because I was too lazy to weigh. I realize that with such small room for error, this little thing may have thrown it off.

    When I change to the higher BF stat the TDEE goes down 7 calories.

    I was going off the bottom of the first page of the spreadsheet that gave me a TDEE of 1,643 with a BMR x 1.26 calc. Adding 120 minutes of light walking a week gave me 44 extra calories a day on the TDEE deficit page.
    How close or far apart are the 2 bodyfat calcs?
    And do you recognize one of those body measurements as being a body part that you've always noticed seems to be out of proportion to rest of body? (like skinny calves for bigger thighs/hips, or wrist compared to forearm)

    Measure food, or weigh food? Liquids is only thing truly having calories based on volume or measuring. Everything else, even ice-cream, calorie label is based on weight, even if they do give a measuring value for ease of use, and sadly great potential for inaccuracy.

    And as a woman, your BMR actually goes up and down through the month, as much as 200 calories. So yes you can have some weeks of gain, extra water retention.

    But it indeed could be the BF% spread is decent enough, and you are truly not avg but more towards one end, and less LBM than avg would give, therefore smaller TDEE.

    If you changed the BF stat to the higher calculated value, how much does the TDEE change?

    It also may be that the range of calorie burn assigned to each level in the activity calc based on your BMR, is actually on the high side, and you burn on the low side. But, the changing above would cause lower burn here too, so that is corrected.
    What kind of levels and time did you use in the activity calculator?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    So neither the BF %, nor the level and time of exercise would throw off that much of an estimate, and food logging side of equation is pretty good too it sounds like.

    Time to adjust then, because it doesn't sound like you are coming at this from the low end, but safely from the high side.

    So unless your body is dealing with several other major stresses outside diet and exercise (and it could be), time to adjust down.

    Probably start with 200 cal less daily eaten.

    Or keep eating at what appears to be maintenance, and get some serious strength training in to hopefully increase LBM, hopefully muscle too. That would increase your TDEE to allow better eating levels.
    Or doing more cardio of course would increase TDEE for better eating levels.

    If you have the new spreadsheet that has the RMR cell available to put a stat in, I'd suggest entering an RMR and adjust it down until the TDEG shows as 200 lower than without the RMR value.
    That way you can still log your progress tab results with some consistency.
  • calypso11
    calypso11 Posts: 24 Member
    So based on my prior history (detailed in my first post and in my previous topics - you might remember them from the past) you think it is safe to decrease by that much again? I'm definitely worried about messing up my metabolism even more than I did last year. Dropping two hundred would put me at about 1,450 cals a day.

    Starting a strength training routine is something my husband and I have wanted to do for a while and is something I seriously need to consider. At the same time, however, I have to be realistic about my lifestyle and if in the future I can't strength train (for whatever reason) I feel like I should be clear on where my body stands. Does that make sense? I am definitely not going back to the days of frequent, intense cardio because that totally backfired on me (and I picked up a few semi-permanent injuries from it to boot).

    I don't think I have the newest spreadsheet downloaded. I'll go do that now. How do I know what RMR figure to put in? My apologies if that question is answered in the sheet.
    So neither the BF %, nor the level and time of exercise would throw off that much of an estimate, and food logging side of equation is pretty good too it sounds like.

    Time to adjust then, because it doesn't sound like you are coming at this from the low end, but safely from the high side.

    So unless your body is dealing with several other major stresses outside diet and exercise (and it could be), time to adjust down.

    Probably start with 200 cal less daily eaten.

    Or keep eating at what appears to be maintenance, and get some serious strength training in to hopefully increase LBM, hopefully muscle too. That would increase your TDEE to allow better eating levels.
    Or doing more cardio of course would increase TDEE for better eating levels.

    If you have the new spreadsheet that has the RMR cell available to put a stat in, I'd suggest entering an RMR and adjust it down until the TDEG shows as 200 lower than without the RMR value.
    That way you can still log your progress tab results with some consistency.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    I don't think I have the newest spreadsheet downloaded. I'll go do that now. How do I know what RMR figure to put in? My apologies if that question is answered in the sheet.

    With all stats filled in as normal, up to the body fat% stat, whether calculated or you have measured.
    Go over to the TDEE Deficit tab, and near top right is RMR info.
    Calculated based on BF%, just like Katch BMR is. Note what the Cunningham RMR is.
    Back to the Simple Setup tab.
    Enter that Cunningham as RMR figure to start with.
    Get your activity stuff set back up again and confirm the TDEE and TDEG is what you were using.
    Now go back to the RMR stat above, and lower it by probably 200.
    See if the TDEG went down by 200.
    Probably not, but you'll have to adjust a few times to nail it, or as close as you desire.

    That way you are reflecting in the numbers what seems to be the case anyway, your RMR is lower than expected for your LBM.

    You aren't doing much cardio, right, just walking? But you used to do more?
  • calypso11
    calypso11 Posts: 24 Member
    With all stats filled in as normal, up to the body fat% stat, whether calculated or you have measured.
    Go over to the TDEE Deficit tab, and near top right is RMR info.
    Calculated based on BF%, just like Katch BMR is. Note what the Cunningham RMR is.
    Back to the Simple Setup tab.
    Enter that Cunningham as RMR figure to start with.
    Get your activity stuff set back up again and confirm the TDEE and TDEG is what you were using.
    Now go back to the RMR stat above, and lower it by probably 200.
    See if the TDEG went down by 200.
    Probably not, but you'll have to adjust a few times to nail it, or as close as you desire.

    That way you are reflecting in the numbers what seems to be the case anyway, your RMR is lower than expected for your LBM.

    You aren't doing much cardio, right, just walking? But you used to do more?

    Okay I went and did that and it said my Cunningham RMR was 1159. I went and put that back on the front page and it said my TDEE was 1665 and my TDEG was 1494. However, in the "eating for the future you" box on the simple setup page, the blue TDEG tab says 1953 so I think something may be wrong? Otherwise 1665 and 1494 are close to 200 apart.

    No, I am not doing any cardio other than walking. Last year from March to November I ran roughly a 5K on alternate days and did Jillian Michaels for the first five months and Insanity for the last four on the other days (with one rest day). Unfortunately I didn't start taking measurements until halfway through all of that so I have no clue what they were when I was at my lowest weight. I still fit in my clothes from then but they are ever so slightly tighter.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Okay I went and did that and it said my Cunningham RMR was 1159. I went and put that back on the front page and it said my TDEE was 1665 and my TDEG was 1494. However, in the "eating for the future you" box on the simple setup page, the blue TDEG tab says 1953 so I think something may be wrong? Otherwise 1665 and 1494 are close to 200 apart.

    No, I am not doing any cardio other than walking. Last year from March to November I ran roughly a 5K on alternate days and did Jillian Michaels for the first five months and Insanity for the last four on the other days (with one rest day). Unfortunately I didn't start taking measurements until halfway through all of that so I have no clue what they were when I was at my lowest weight. I still fit in my clothes from then but they are ever so slightly tighter.

    I didn't catch anywhere you were doing the EFFY method, sorry if I missed that. Change of plan if you want that slower method.
    Let me know if that is the case.

    If it is not what you were using, then the following applies.
    So 1665 close to the TDEE 1643 that includes the walking in the activity calc, right?
    What was the TDEG prior that you were eating too, close to 1494?

    I think I'm starting to get confused, because I also caught reference in prior post you went to TDEE Deficit tab.

    Let's just stick on Simple Setup tab, with stats correct, RMR cell blank. Using that BF% from the calc's avg.
    And activity calc filled in with your planned walking.

    What is the TDEE and TDEG?

    Now put in that RMR that the TDEE Deficit tab gave you, the TDEE and TDEG should be the same, maybe a couple calories off because of math rounding differences.
  • calypso11
    calypso11 Posts: 24 Member
    Sorry to confuse you! No I'm not doing the EFFY method - I was just looking at that box because it also had a TDEG cell and it didn't align with the other one.

    I just went back and and redid everything in case something messed up. I think something was wrong because now the Cunningham cell says 1455 instead of 1159.

    The TDEE and TDEG - with no RMR - on the simple setup page are 1675 and 1502 respectively. This includes the planned walking.

    The TDEE and TDEG - WITH RMR - on the simple setup page are 1672 and 1502 respectively. This includes the planned walking.

    The EFFY you tab now seems to be normal as well.

    Thanks for all your help! I really appreciate it.
    I didn't catch anywhere you were doing the EFFY method, sorry if I missed that. Change of plan if you want that slower method.
    Let me know if that is the case.

    If it is not what you were using, then the following applies.
    So 1665 close to the TDEE 1643 that includes the walking in the activity calc, right?
    What was the TDEG prior that you were eating too, close to 1494?

    I think I'm starting to get confused, because I also caught reference in prior post you went to TDEE Deficit tab.

    Let's just stick on Simple Setup tab, with stats correct, RMR cell blank. Using that BF% from the calc's avg.
    And activity calc filled in with your planned walking.

    What is the TDEE and TDEG?

    Now put in that RMR that the TDEE Deficit tab gave you, the TDEE and TDEG should be the same, maybe a couple calories off because of math rounding differences.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Ok, good. You may have accidentally left in the sample BF figure of 42%.
    (EFFY TDEG is based on different figure, it's goal weight TDEE less 5%, so usually less of a deficit, unless very overweight, it will be different)


    So, have you been eating over the 1500 already for a while, is that 1500 already a lower goal that you should give it 3-4 weeks?

    Or your avg eating level for past month has already been there at 1500 and no lose of weight or measurements?

    If the former, hold to 1500 now for 3-4 weeks.

    If the latter, lower the RMR figure by probably 250 first.
    See if the TDEE is at 1475 (seems hard to believe really, but my RMR is 200 below expected by tested LBM figure)
    If not, adjust that RMR until the TDEE says 1475.
    Then use the new TDEG goal.

    You've already had a recent time where you at basically ate with no deficit, so a beneficial diet break was had. Good.
  • calypso11
    calypso11 Posts: 24 Member
    Yes I have been eating around ~1650 calories since the middle of May.

    I will do what you suggested and go down to 1500 for a month so (oh how hard it will be to give up those extra calories again!) to see what happens. The spreadsheet puts me at a .3 pound a week loss with that, but that is hard to look for when things fluctuate so much day to day.
    Ok, good. You may have accidentally left in the sample BF figure of 42%.
    (EFFY TDEG is based on different figure, it's goal weight TDEE less 5%, so usually less of a deficit, unless very overweight, it will be different)


    So, have you been eating over the 1500 already for a while, is that 1500 already a lower goal that you should give it 3-4 weeks?

    Or your avg eating level for past month has already been there at 1500 and no lose of weight or measurements?

    If the former, hold to 1500 now for 3-4 weeks.

    If the latter, lower the RMR figure by probably 250 first.
    See if the TDEE is at 1475 (seems hard to believe really, but my RMR is 200 below expected by tested LBM figure)
    If not, adjust that RMR until the TDEE says 1475.
    Then use the new TDEG goal.

    You've already had a recent time where you at basically ate with no deficit, so a beneficial diet break was had. Good.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Yes I have been eating around ~1650 calories since the middle of May.

    I will do what you suggested and go down to 1500 for a month so (oh how hard it will be to give up those extra calories again!) to see what happens. The spreadsheet puts me at a .3 pound a week loss with that, but that is hard to look for when things fluctuate so much day to day.

    So true, that's why it's also said to go longer, so a full lb can really show up. Also, you may retain water and then get whoosh effect and drop 5 lbs.
  • calypso11
    calypso11 Posts: 24 Member
    Yes I have been eating around ~1650 calories since the middle of May.

    I will do what you suggested and go down to 1500 for a month so (oh how hard it will be to give up those extra calories again!) to see what happens. The spreadsheet puts me at a .3 pound a week loss with that, but that is hard to look for when things fluctuate so much day to day.

    So true, that's why it's also said to go longer, so a full lb can really show up. Also, you may retain water and then get whoosh effect and drop 5 lbs.

    So it's only been about ten days but I wanted to come back and give a little update. Your advice has been invaluable.

    I went a little soft on the restriction and just started to "intuitively" cut back based on my hunger. Some days I've been eating at my regular number (1635) or even higher and other days I've been eating at 1435 or 1535 all based on how hungry I feel. It's averaging out to be over five hundred less for the whole week.

    The scale has gone down two times in the twelve days since I've started, with two days in a row now clocking in at 119.8. I'm feeling like this is mostly water weight/glycogen because it seems extreme to lose a pound and a half in twelve days on such a small restriction. I suppose that this is the beginning to understanding where my maintenance level is though. I really do not want to eat 1535-1635 for the rest of my life, so I need to figure out something.