NRLFW Front squat to push press
ShaunaMcMac
Posts: 160 Member
I don't know if you are all familiar with this program, but in stage 2 there is a front squat to push press. I've gotten some feedback on the regular msg boards that these are difficult and that I shouldn't attempt them on my own ( without a trainer). I respect the advice given on here so I'd love your perspective on this. NROLFW assumes you are working without a trainer so should I really be that intimidated to attempt on my own? I always start off with a bare bar and add weight gradually.
Also any tips on form would be great.
Thanks!
Also any tips on form would be great.
Thanks!
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Replies
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I wouldn't recommend that exercise, because the proper bar grip for a front squat and a press is different. The only exception to that is if you were doing them very light, more for cardio, where the grip really wouldn't be an issue.0
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The picture in the book has the gal do them with maybe 55 or 65 lb (yes, I just checked). But then again, most of the barbell lifts in that book are shown with that weight.
The NROLFW book has a lot of breadth but not an awful lot of depth, certainly not when it comes to form. They even say at the outset that they are not "form nazis", which frankly put me on guard. Because I think form is pretty damn important.
Anyway, OP, I am with you in that I would be reluctant to do something that's fairly technical based on the description in that book. I just re-read it, and there is a lot more complexity to both movements than you would gather from their description.0 -
I am not able to offer the expert advice you will get here but just to say I tried it with only a light weight and decided to go back to regular squats. It felt like the risk of injury was to high0
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This is my least favorite move in the program because the positioning is so awkward on my wrists. As a previous poster said, the way you hold the barbell is different for front squats and push presses. I still do it, but the weight is lower than it would be for either of those moves alone. One thing that has helped me is trying to keep my hands more in the position I would for a push press, so wider than where they'd be for a front squat. I'm not sure if that helps, but it's made it more comfortable for me, and I'm better able to keep good form.0
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I'm wondering if these compound moves are even necessary. I've been looking at strong lifts 5x5 and it's appealing because it is so simple.0
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I'm wondering if these compound moves are even necessary. I've been looking at strong lifts 5x5 and it's appealing because it is so simple.
NROLFW is a great program if you like variety in your exercise and get bored easily. SL and similar programs (Starting Strength, AllPro) center on just a handful of exercises, from four to seven, that you practice repeatedly. I personally prefer the latter kind because I would much rather be good at a few things than bad at a lot of them.0 -
I'm interested to know... are they recommending this as part of a metabolic phase of the program or as part of the actual strength component of the programming?0
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I'm interested to know... are they recommending this as part of a metabolic phase of the program or as part of the actual strength component of the programming?
As the strength part I think. It replaces the barbell squat at the same point in stage 10 -
If that's the case, grip or not, I simply wouldn't combine those two exercises for strength purposes. Most people can front squat much more than they can overhead press... so why dilute the front squat by adding an exercise to it that you're much weaker in. Combination lifts will always be reduced to their weakest link, thus robbing the stronger movements of their potential for developing strength.
Granted, I'm not in the loop of how they're structuring things, so maybe my stance is misguided given their actual use. Somehow I doubt it though. That book series became a platform for churning information to the masses as far as I'm concerned. After Alwyn ripped off Lyle, word for word, for one of his books, I totally lost interest.
As for combo lifts, I'll frequently utilize things like barbell, kettlebell, or dumbbell complexes. But this is more for calorie wastage, conditioning, etc.0 -
If that's the case, grip or not, I simply wouldn't combine those two exercises for strength purposes. Most people can front squat much more than they can overhead press... so why dilute the front squat by adding an exercise to it that you're much weaker in. Combination lifts will always be reduced to their weakest link, thus robbing the stronger movements of their potential for developing strength.
Granted, I'm not in the loop of how they're structuring things, so maybe my stance is misguided given their actual use. Somehow I doubt it though. That book series became a platform for churning information to the masses as far as I'm concerned. After Alwyn ripped off Lyle, word for word, for one of his books, I totally lost interest.
As for combo lifts, I'll frequently utilize things like barbell, kettlebell, or dumbbell complexes. But this is more for calorie wastage, conditioning, etc.
I haven't done the program but I picked up the book because I got curious after seeing it recommended all over the place. It was a mistake to read it after reading Starting Strength... The first half of it is a motivational speech trying to convince women that they need to lift weights. There is also some misguided nutrition advice touting frequent small meals. And then, after making fun of crunches, they break out about 100 different exercises that (gasp!) include crunches. On a Swiss ball. I learned nothing new from that book and consider it time and money wasted. But, like I said earlier, it has its place for people who get bored easily, because if there is one thing it does not lack, it's variety. Someone following the program would never be at a loss for moves at the gym.0 -
I'm interested to know... are they recommending this as part of a metabolic phase of the program or as part of the actual strength component of the programming?
As the strength part I think. It replaces the barbell squat at the same point in stage 1
^That's my problem with NRLFW. It stars off ok, then moves on from the basic lifts into too much unnecessary stuff. I'm not opposed to tinkering with things to keep it interesting, the the core lifts should remain your foundation.0 -
I'm interested to know... are they recommending this as part of a metabolic phase of the program or as part of the actual strength component of the programming?
I believe strength. The set up is the same as the squat in stage 1. They introduce HIIT in stage 2 but that is a separate component of the workout.0 -
If that's the case, grip or not, I simply wouldn't combine those two exercises for strength purposes. Most people can front squat much more than they can overhead press... so why dilute the front squat by adding an exercise to it that you're much weaker in. Combination lifts will always be reduced to their weakest link, thus robbing the stronger movements of their potential for developing strength.
Granted, I'm not in the loop of how they're structuring things, so maybe my stance is misguided given their actual use. Somehow I doubt it though. That book series became a platform for churning information to the masses as far as I'm concerned. After Alwyn ripped off Lyle, word for word, for one of his books, I totally lost interest.
As for combo lifts, I'll frequently utilize things like barbell, kettlebell, or dumbbell complexes. But this is more for calorie wastage, conditioning, etc.
I'm a beginner and I don't get bored with routine, so are you recommending sticking to a simple program of strength training at this point? I eat at a constant deficit (1700) and do steady state cardio on my rest days to help with what i think you are referring to as calorie wastage. I'm down with the "KISS" philosophy, at least until I actually start getting bored. My goals are basically aesthetic, as well as a reasonable improvement in strength (but that is not my primary focus).0 -
If that's the case, grip or not, I simply wouldn't combine those two exercises for strength purposes. Most people can front squat much more than they can overhead press... so why dilute the front squat by adding an exercise to it that you're much weaker in. Combination lifts will always be reduced to their weakest link, thus robbing the stronger movements of their potential for developing strength.
Granted, I'm not in the loop of how they're structuring things, so maybe my stance is misguided given their actual use. Somehow I doubt it though. That book series became a platform for churning information to the masses as far as I'm concerned. After Alwyn ripped off Lyle, word for word, for one of his books, I totally lost interest.
As for combo lifts, I'll frequently utilize things like barbell, kettlebell, or dumbbell complexes. But this is more for calorie wastage, conditioning, etc.
I'm a beginner and I don't get bored with routine, so are you recommending sticking to a simple program of strength training at this point? I eat at a constant deficit (1700) and do steady state cardio on my rest days to help with what i think you are referring to as calorie wastage. I'm down with the "KISS" philosophy, at least until I actually start getting bored. My goals are basically aesthetic, as well as a reasonable improvement in strength (but that is not my primary focus).
Personally, yeah, it's what I'd recommend. In fact, at the core of all of my programming with weights is pretty basic strength training.... even for some of my advanced clients. I have a guy now who's training for a bodybuilding contest. He's been training all his life really, yet, if you really breakdown the programming I've devised for him, it's basic, progressive barbell training wrapped with some hypertrophic goodness, lol.
I typically start novices with the basics, and not much changes throughout... it's just that I add additional stuff onto that foundation as work capacity and goals evolve.
Lastly, don't take me saying "not much changes throughout" to mean the basic programming stays entirely unchanged. The principles behind why it's included and the general way of executing them stays constant, but the actual nuts and bolts - things like exercise selection, volume, intensity, density, structure - change throughout based on needs and mental state.0 -
If that's the case, grip or not, I simply wouldn't combine those two exercises for strength purposes. Most people can front squat much more than they can overhead press... so why dilute the front squat by adding an exercise to it that you're much weaker in. Combination lifts will always be reduced to their weakest link, thus robbing the stronger movements of their potential for developing strength.
Granted, I'm not in the loop of how they're structuring things, so maybe my stance is misguided given their actual use. Somehow I doubt it though. That book series became a platform for churning information to the masses as far as I'm concerned. After Alwyn ripped off Lyle, word for word, for one of his books, I totally lost interest.
As for combo lifts, I'll frequently utilize things like barbell, kettlebell, or dumbbell complexes. But this is more for calorie wastage, conditioning, etc.
I'm a beginner and I don't get bored with routine, so are you recommending sticking to a simple program of strength training at this point? I eat at a constant deficit (1700) and do steady state cardio on my rest days to help with what i think you are referring to as calorie wastage. I'm down with the "KISS" philosophy, at least until I actually start getting bored. My goals are basically aesthetic, as well as a reasonable improvement in strength (but that is not my primary focus).
Personally, yeah, it's what I'd recommend. In fact, at the core of all of my programming with weights is pretty basic strength training.... even for some of my advanced clients. I have a guy now who's training for a bodybuilding contest. He's been training all his life really, yet, if you really breakdown the programming I've devised for him, it's basic, progressive barbell training wrapped with some hypertrophic goodness, lol.
I typically start novices with the basics, and not much changes throughout... it's just that I add additional stuff onto that foundation as work capacity and goals evolve.
Lastly, don't take me saying "not much changes throughout" to mean the basic programming stays entirely unchanged. The principles behind why it's included and the general way of executing them stays constant, but the actual nuts and bolts - things like exercise selection, volume, intensity, density, structure - change throughout based on needs and mental state.
Thanks stroutman,
I'll be back on here once I start seeing more results to get more advice
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I remember this part. I think it's in stage 2. I did this exercise, but I had no clue what I was doing or if I was doing it right. I likely wasn't. This is one of the things I really dislike about that program. They throw so many random lifts at you and don't really tell you how to properly do it.0
