half marathon PR 2:00:36 Marathon in under 4 hours?
sammyneb
Posts: 257
So my most recent half marathon PR was 2:00:36, I'm currently training for my first full (October 20th) I will run two halves in September as training runs. One I'm really just running for training, just gunning for under 2:10 the other I want to try to PR (we will see since I'm running a 20 miler the weekend before. But I'm training with my sister and she is running the full with me, she is determined to run it in under 4 hours (her PR is 1:57) I would really like to run with her, but I don't want to kill myself trying to run faster than I should. This will be both of our first full's.
I have some hope I can do it, as I dropped 21 minutes off my half time from January to June...so I really wouldn't have to drop a lot off in order to pull this off.. I have speed/hill and temp runs coming up over the next two months, which were things I am pretty convinced help me drop the 21 minutes off my half....so what do you think? Think I can gun for less than 4 hours feasibly?
My other hope is the race is late October in Iowa, so the weather should be cool, and i'm training in some heat..so I'm hoping that helps??
I have some hope I can do it, as I dropped 21 minutes off my half time from January to June...so I really wouldn't have to drop a lot off in order to pull this off.. I have speed/hill and temp runs coming up over the next two months, which were things I am pretty convinced help me drop the 21 minutes off my half....so what do you think? Think I can gun for less than 4 hours feasibly?
My other hope is the race is late October in Iowa, so the weather should be cool, and i'm training in some heat..so I'm hoping that helps??
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No. That would be suicide to attempt to run the full at a 4 hour pace.
McMillan projects a 2:00 HM to be a 4:12 marathon. That assume proper training for the marathon.
What does "proper training" mean in the context of the marathon? It means LOTS of mileage over years. The HM and the marathon are two entirely different beasts. You will experience a completely different type of fatigue in the marathon, fatigue that comes from your body running out of fuel, not from a build up of lactic acid in your system. You will just not be able to continue.
For first time marathoners, I suggest taking McMillan's projection and adding an additional 15 to 20 minutes to it and use that as a goal pace. Even then, there is a 95% chance that you will hit the wall at mile 20. It takes years of mileage to train the body beyond that point.
So, I would say 4:30 is a more appropriate goal time for you.0 -
I'm with Carson on this one. My guess is you need a whole lot more base work before sub 4 is a reality.0
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Hi, yes agree... I think 4:30 is more realistic. You want to enjoy the experience afterall! Use the first marathon as a marker and then you can set goals for the next one!0
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Ok..My next question..how much base work are you all talking about? I have been running for two year, almost always on a training schedule for a half. I have ran 4 halves in the last two years (3 of which were this year) . I understand that you need a solid base to pull of a decent time for a full marathon and the proper training. I will have ran 3 runs at 20 miles or higher before the race. So maybe 4 hours isn't feesible, but 4:30?? I was truely gunning for 4:20 or better, but really 4:10.
I would think the miles I have put in would make it at least possible to go closer to 4 hours...0 -
I agree with what's been stated. I'm particularly interested in seeing how your sister's sub 4 attempt goes. My Half PR is also a 1:57 and my Full marathon PR shortly after that was a 4:13. I know it can be done by some, but I didn't feel ready for a sub 4 at that time. The marathon is a waaaay different beast than a half. I would like to get my half time to under or around 1:50 to attempt a sub 4.
Best wishes for your training! Enjoy your first one! The improvements are huge in the beginning but it gets harder to make bug improvements as your times get faster.0 -
My half marathon PR is 1:49:10 and McMillan projects me at 3:49:45 for my marathon (also in October). My goal, however, is simply to finish, but sub 4 would be awesome. I think that you need to be realistic -- can you possibly sustain the same pace as your half PR for double the distance?0
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Ok..My next question..how much base work are you all talking about?
I will relate my personal experience here.
I started running in 2003. I was running about 3 miles a day, every other day.
I ran my first 5K in 2005 in just under 28 minutes.
In 2006, I decided to run my first HM. I ran about 25 miles a week at my peak for that race and ran 1:57:28.
I continued to run consistent mileage of 25 to 30 miles per week. Race a few more HM's and got down to about 1:38:00.
Decided to run Marine Corps Marathon in 2010. I ran 2072 miles in that year. I ran a 1:34 HM 7 weeks before the marathon which translates to a 3:17 marathon. I set my goal as 3:30.
I ran a 3:30 pace consistently through 20 miles and then I hit the wall. I slowed every mile from there on out and I wanted to kill myself. I finished in a very painful 3:38.
That was with 60+ mile training weeks leading up to the race and almost 7 years of mileage under my belt.
The next year, I ran another 2600 miles, ran another marathon in the fall, ran the SAME game plan as the year before and finished strong without hitting the wall in 3:26:52.
My experience is typical of first time marathon runners.0 -
Rule of thumb I was given was HM time x 2 + 10 = projected marathon.
That assumes you are properly trained to run a full marathon. Based on recently doing 20 milers during your training I would say you are ready to finish the full but I don't think you are going to go under 4.0 -
While training for my first marathon, I ran half just under 1:53 (a PR for me). The full marathon (half of which was actually on the same course as that half marathon) took me just under 4:30. I was diligent about following the training plan and I never felt like I "hit the wall" - but it still took me significantly longer to do the full. A full marathon is a different race, it shouldn't be thought of as 2 half marathons. And, if a half marathon is taking half the time of your marathon time, then you're probably not pushing yourself hard enough during the half marathon!0
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Not trying to be a buzzkill or anything but I tend to be a realist.
That being said, I think it's an aggressive goal. My current HM PR is 1:45:19. I've got my first 26.2 on 10/06, am following the sub-3:45 training plan on RunKeeper, and am hopeful that I can make that goal. Based on recent 13-16 mile run times, McMillian has me right around 3:45 for the full 26.2, but I haven't yet hit the wall on my long runs so I'm not yet sure what kind of pacing hit I'll take. Assuming that I will hit a rather hard wall, I'll guess my current abilities would bring me in somewhere between 3:50-4:00.0 -
My $.02: Half PR needs to be down in the low 1:50s before you can think about a 4 hour marathon. That also assumes you are properly training (lots of first timers tend to pick a more modest training program).0
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My best was a 1:52:00 half and I'm really seriously wondering if I can pull off a 4 hour marathon on December. I know it's going to be tough. I have a friend here at work that's done quite a few. His personal best was a 3:02:00 marathon. He said that the first 20 miles was only half way. So I'm not sure how this will all fare but I'll know in December I suppose. Then I can tell everyone "No way, can't be done." or at least "not likely".
I'm still going to try for 4 hours though. That's my goal and I'm sticking with it.0 -
I am certainly no expert (there are several here who have already responded who certainly know waaaaaayyy more than me about this) and am not saying that what happened for me will happen for you, but when I was training for my first full, I ran a half on 10/15/11 as a training run; no particular effort to PR (certainly no taper or break in the training plan... just ran it as a long run, but it's hard not to push at least a bit in a race setting), but didn't sit completely back on it, either... ran that in 2:02:13, which remains my PR, since I've only run one other half many years earlier with no particular training. When I ran my full on 01/08/12, for which I most definitely did taper and felt like I pushed pretty decently, though I had some leftover in the tank when it was done, I ran a 3:58:31.
There were almost 3 months and a lot o' training between those two events, but it was certainly possible to run sub-4 without having the half marathon time as cred. That being said, I'd let your training and comfort dictate your marathon pace, rather than the goal pace of someone you're running with... that could lead to a world o' hurt!!!
In any case, best of luck with your race and happy running! :flowerforyou:0 -
The other issue is that marathons are tricky to race. You need to have a really good feel for your pacing and NOT go out too fast. If you are chasing an arbitrary time goal (sub 4, BQ, etc.) it is that much harder to not go out too fast.
Bert, from your performance we can conclude a few things:
1) your half PR was/is really soft
2) you trained well
3) you raced smart
4) you kicked *kitten*!0 -
I'd be keen to know how you get on. I'm hoping to run a 4 hr marathon in April. I have a half in October, and I'm thinking I need to be down at 1:55 (which is still a way off) to have a realistic chance of making 4hrs by April0
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The other issue is that marathons are tricky to race. You need to have a really good feel for your pacing and NOT go out too fast. If you are chasing an arbitrary time goal (sub 4, BQ, etc.) it is that much harder to not go out too fast.
Bert, from your performance we can conclude a few things:
1) your half PR was/is really soft
2) you trained well
3) you raced smart
4) you kicked *kitten*!
Awwww, shucks, Jon! :blushing:
I think #1 is true; I've never really trained and rested for a half. I'm training now for my 2nd full in December, so have another half planned in a few weeks. Don't think I'll rest for that one, either, but am certainly hoping it'll be better than my current "PR"! And I totally agree about the time goal being a huge temptation to go out too fast... I'm worried about that for my December full.0 -
Also don't forget that marathon training (for many of us) will result in MUCH faster half marathons.0
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You're half marathon PR is the same as mine!! Actually, I have run two half marathons that both got stuck on the 2:00:and some odd seconds. So frustrating actually, just want to break 2:00! anyhow, just wanted to relay that after running the half at 2:00, I ran a full at 4:18 about two months later (august half, october full). I probably could have done slightly better if it wasn't for ridic cold weather that I wasn't prepared for, however, realistically not much better. Maybe a 4:15 goal?0
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The other issue is that marathons are tricky to race. You need to have a really good feel for your pacing and NOT go out too fast. If you are chasing an arbitrary time goal (sub 4, BQ, etc.) it is that much harder to not go out too fast.
Bert, from your performance we can conclude a few things:
1) your half PR was/is really soft
2) you trained well
3) you raced smart
4) you kicked *kitten*!
Awwww, shucks, Jon! :blushing:
I think #1 is true; I've never really trained and rested for a half. I'm training now for my 2nd full in December, so have another half planned in a few weeks. Don't think I'll rest for that one, either, but am certainly hoping it'll be better than my current "PR"! And I totally agree about the time goal being a huge temptation to go out too fast... I'm worried about that for my December full.
I've run HM PRs twice in the middle of marathon training. I didn't taper for them at all, but you bet your arm warmers I raced them as hard as I could.0 -
I agree with Carson. My half PR last year was 1:55. I started out with the 4:15 group for Houston and hit the wall at mile 23. It was all i could do to make 4:17 after that. But i do feel each marathon i have ran has become better as my bodynow knows what I am doing. You will get better as you do more marathons, but dont push it. Give your body plenty of time to adapt with training. Speed work and hills definitely is helping me, but you have to be patient with your progress0
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I should clarify my time I posted in that this was my 3rd marathon and I ran the first half of it in 2:01 and then slowed down considerably the second half to get to my 4:18 time. Also, I should have known I couldnt keep the 9:00 pace up for the marathon distance during training because I bonked on the higher mileage (18 and 20) runs.0
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Ah, well hat makes sense. Do you try and do all your long runs at goal pace?0
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Not anymore!
Just tried to push it that particular year on a few long runs since I was running with a group and hadn't done my long runs with a group before. 0 -
OP I'm in your boat. My HM PR is 1:45, and I'm planning on aiming for a 4:30 for my first full, which is in 1.5 weeks. To me, it seems like excessive time padding, but I haven't run anything beyond 20mi and I'm afraid of burning out. I'll come back here with the results 0
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OP I'm in your boat. My HM PR is 1:45, and I'm planning on aiming for a 4:30 for my first full, which is in 1.5 weeks. To me, it seems like excessive time padding, but I haven't run anything beyond 20mi and I'm afraid of burning out. I'll come back here with the results
Please do! I'll be courious to know how you do. Good luck! I still have 10 weeks to go, but I hit my first 20 miler this weekend!0 -
I am a new runner (less than a year) so I don't have anything to add.
That being said I am also in a similar situation. I ran my first and only half marathon in January (1:57) and hope to complete my first marathon in under 4 hours this October.
I feel like my fitness is much better than it was in January and my weekly mileage is WAY up, but I have yet to run over 30km (18.64 miles) in one session.0 -
I'm going to restate something that was said earlier in the thread.
The marathon is not two half marathons. It is a completely different race.
Last fall, I ran a PR HM of 1:28:05. This translates to a 3:05 marathon. I ran 3:12 (probably could have run 3:10), but there is no way I could have run 3:05.
Over the three year span starting 1/1/2010 to 12/31/2012, I logged 7447 miles. That's an average of almost 48 miles a week over a period of 3 years. That is STILL not enough base to get my marathon time in line with McMillan's prediction based on my HM time.
I stand by my advice of McMillian prediction plus 15 to 20 minutes. If you try to run your first marathon any faster than that, you are going to blow up by mile 18 and have the most miserable 8.2 mile run (and walk) of your life at the end.0 -
My HM PR is 1.47 and I did my marathon in 4:04 so I would say, not its not possible or realistic0
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Well my half was 2 months ago, so I will have 4 months more of training for my full. I am also running two halves this month. One of those halves will be following a 20 mile Saturday run and Sunday 10K race. So I figure I can pull of a PR of 1:55 or better at that half with no taper, then I have a better shot. I understand that a full is not just two halves, I get that. But on the same note, I get that because of a lot of people's experiences on here it may seem unlikely, but I'm surprised at the comments of this being impossible or completely unrealistic. Two years ago I was smoking and couldn't run a 2 miles 3 years ago I as 50 lbs heavier...so I’ve come a long way. Nothing is impossible.
But I am not unrealistic, I will not let an arbitrary goal dictate the start of the race. I will not go out to fast, I have yet to do that. I run my halves in a negative split. I don't expect to do that in the full, but I also know my limits. I have my fueling down and so far my longest run of 18 miles was just fine, went on my day afterwards and felt great. Yes 26 miles is a lot more than 18 but I also have 2 more months of training. I appreciate everyone’s responses and telling me their stories, but saying it is impossible? That I don't agree with.0
