Stalling on Legs
GuitarJerry
Posts: 6,102 Member
I've been doing 5/3/1 for just over 6 months. Prior to that, I was doing a different strength building program for maybe a year. Prior to that, I've done strength for several years.
So, here I am. My squats are dying on the vine, and my Deadlifts are also slowing. I was having great success, but it's just getting too heavy.
I recalculated my 1RMs and recalculated my training maxes and that brought everything down a few notches, but it's still almost too heavy.
I eat around 2000 cals a day. I weigh 172 and am 5'11". I'm maintaining at 2000 cals. I don't add back, or eat, exercise calories.
I have no issues with upper body. My upper body strength continues to climb, and fairly effortlessly, I must say. But, my poor little chicken legs just can't seem to grow.
Do you, or anyone, have any general or specific suggestions for increasing leg strength?
For reference, on the assistance work, I do the Dave Tate stuff in the first book. I like that style because it's flexible. I am in the gym 4 days a week. Sometimes I run, but not often. Mostly just the 5/3/1 workouts.
I want a break-through on legs. I just can't seem to get them to respond well.
TIA.
So, here I am. My squats are dying on the vine, and my Deadlifts are also slowing. I was having great success, but it's just getting too heavy.
I recalculated my 1RMs and recalculated my training maxes and that brought everything down a few notches, but it's still almost too heavy.
I eat around 2000 cals a day. I weigh 172 and am 5'11". I'm maintaining at 2000 cals. I don't add back, or eat, exercise calories.
I have no issues with upper body. My upper body strength continues to climb, and fairly effortlessly, I must say. But, my poor little chicken legs just can't seem to grow.
Do you, or anyone, have any general or specific suggestions for increasing leg strength?
For reference, on the assistance work, I do the Dave Tate stuff in the first book. I like that style because it's flexible. I am in the gym 4 days a week. Sometimes I run, but not often. Mostly just the 5/3/1 workouts.
I want a break-through on legs. I just can't seem to get them to respond well.
TIA.
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I am no expert but maybe you need to eat more? I am a 4'11, 123lbs female and I eat 1600 cals a day (still losing weight). I tried eating 1300cals for a while and all my lifts suffered and could not progress. Bump it up a few hundred and see if you improve. Hope that helps:)0
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First thing I would do would be video both lifts and see if there are any obvious form breakdowns/technique issues.
Maybe then look at each lift and where your weak points are then change your assistance work to address that.0 -
I was doing my squats wrong for weeks, I didn't realise till I saw a guy at the gym showing his pal proper form, now I do them better deeper and heavier, and am getting results.0
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I am a firm believer in the concept of "hull speed". The idea is simple. There is a theoretical limit on how fast a ship can go from a structural point of view--the hull limits how fast the ship can go. The analogy to lifting is that your habits, nutrition, routine, etc. also form a structural limit. If you are hitting a plateau, it could be time for a drastic change of how you do things.
Some are saying to eat more, but yet you are gaining in your arms. How often do you hit your legs per week? How often do you hit your arms per week? How long does it take for you to finish a squat set? How active are you throughout the week? How much beer do you drink? What is your macro-nutrient intake?0 -
I was looking at your food diary and noticed that you have a goal of 105 grams of protein. Double that amount and see what happens.0
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and here's a form check video. This is a working set of 5 reps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muUEiNb9BT8
I might see a few problems here, but I'd like some expert opinions on what's going on.
I'd like to see you really put more emphasis on shoving your knees out in the squat. Think of it like showing your junk to the mirror for lack of a better phrase. One thing you can do that really helped me tremendously would be to get a resistance loop (see if your gym has them) and stick both feet in it and pull it up to the knees and squat with it on (at a much lower load). The resistance band will attempt to pull your knees together and you resist that force by shoving your knees out. It's a good training aid to teach that.
The knee valgus issue you have is enough that I'd suggest reducing the training load to practice this. On the plus side, when it gets corrected I would expect your squats to start increasing readily.
Finally, here's a solid article with a number of different drills/techniques to address the issue. Could be caused by various mobility issues as well.
http://bretcontreras.com/knee-valgus-valgus-collapse-glute-medius-strengthening-band-hip-abduction-exercises-and-ankle-dorsiflexion-drills/0 -
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I am a firm believer in the concept of "hull speed". The idea is simple. There is a theoretical limit on how fast a ship can go from a structural point of view--the hull limits how fast the ship can go. The analogy to lifting is that your habits, nutrition, routine, etc. also form a structural limit. If you are hitting a plateau, it could be time for a drastic change of how you do things.
Some are saying to eat more, but yet you are gaining in your arms. How often do you hit your legs per week? How often do you hit your arms per week? How long does it take for you to finish a squat set? How active are you throughout the week? How much beer do you drink? What is your macro-nutrient intake?
I felt like I explained that by stating my routine is 5/3/1. In case your not aware, that means I hit legs twice a week. Squats one day, and a couple days later, Deadlifts. On top of that, I do accessory work, and I mix it up a bit, but could include hack squats, good mornings, leg press, leg curls. I spend about an hour in the gym, I only lift. I do not do cardio. I am not active hardly at all except for the gym.
The entire 5/3/1 routine is Day 1 OHP, day 2 Deadlift, day 3 rest, day 4 bench press, day 5 squat, day 6 and 7 rest. For each workout day, I do the main lift in a certain pattern and you lift with a progressive load. So, you have a day of 5 reps. Then a day of 3 reps, then a day of 5/3/1 reps. Each 3rd week is a new PR on the last rep. You increase by 5 lbs on upper body and 10 lbs on lower on 90% of your 1RM. and the 4th week is a deload week.
I've changed up a bit based on his latest book, but this is the gist of the program.
The amount of protein is based on .8g for every lb of LBM. I can easily increase that amount. But, I'm not sure there's any benefit.
Sure, but just because you state that you do 5/3/1 doesn't mean you are doing 5/3/1. Wendler makes it very clear to not do any customizations to the program, which a lot of people do regardless of the program.
Gains are about 2 things:
1) Proper stimulus.
2) Proper nutrition.
If you are making gains in your arms, then it most likely is a stimulus issue. Based on the video you provided, I would take SideSteel's advice. I would also consider increasing how long your muscles are under tension. That set took about 25 seconds. When lowering the weight, try to go much slower. Count to 5. This will probably mean you have to use a lighter weight, but your form will be better.
Also, when you are finished with your set, do you feel like you have more reps to spare? If you aren't pushing yourself hard enough (to failure) then your progress will be much slower. People might disagree with me on this point, but if you aren't lifting to failure for a particular lift, then I don't think your muscles are getting the proper stimulus.
In terms of nutrition, you could very well be correct. Like I said in my previous post, you are gaining in your arms, so I doubt that is the issue, but it can't hurt to increase your protein intake. You might find that you will make gains faster by the increase. I feel like people fall into a trap of eating enough protein for their current LBM, but they need to be eating enough protein for their target LBM. Even a small increase of 20-30 grams a day might make a huge difference.0 -
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People might disagree with me on this point, but if you aren't lifting to failure for a particular lift, then I don't think your muscles are getting the proper stimulus.
Yes I would disagree, completely.
Common theme amongst almost all strength routines is NOT routinely going to failure. All the Russian systems like Sheiko, smolov to things like 5/3/1 have you doing most of the work at a moderate % of your 1rm and hardly ever to failure. It think you are confusing bodybuilding principles with strength training,0 -
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People might disagree with me on this point, but if you aren't lifting to failure for a particular lift, then I don't think your muscles are getting the proper stimulus.
Yes I would disagree, completely.
Common theme amongst almost all strength routines is NOT routinely going to failure. All the Russian systems like Sheiko, smolov to things like 5/3/1 have you doing most of the work at a moderate % of your 1rm and hardly ever to failure. It think you are confusing bodybuilding principles with strength training,
Agreed with Hendrix on this. I don't think training to failure is necessary. I think it could potentially be helpful during overreaching cycles/etc but I wouldn't recommend it on a regular basis.0 -
I have a drastically different training philosophy/routine than what predominates on MFP, so I knew a lot of people would disagree.
Empirical evidence is the best guide to life. My advice is always to experiment. For me, I do one effective set to failure emphasizing the eccentric part of the lift and time under tension. How much time it takes to fail is valued more than a magical set/rep count. I routinely make strength gains and can squat over 400 pounds. It is working for me. Yes, that's Post hoc ergo propter hoc, but that's the nature of human experience. The point is that training to failure clearly isn't hurting my gains. If you hang out in the gym 5 days a week, however, it probably will.
If you think it will hurt your progress, don't follow my advice. If you are curious, then experiment. Here's an article explaining my point of view: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/training_to_failure0 -
People might disagree with me on this point, but if you aren't lifting to failure for a particular lift, then I don't think your muscles are getting the proper stimulus.
Yes I would disagree, completely.
Common theme amongst almost all strength routines is NOT routinely going to failure. All the Russian systems like Sheiko, smolov to things like 5/3/1 have you doing most of the work at a moderate % of your 1rm and hardly ever to failure. It think you are confusing bodybuilding principles with strength training,
While I am not familiar with the other systems you mentioned, 5/3/1 does have you go to failure during the last set of your main lift. Unless I'm mistaking your meaning.0 -
While I am not familiar with the other systems you mentioned, 5/3/1 does have you go to failure during the last set of your main lift. Unless I'm mistaking your meaning.
From the source:
"The Last Set
Whichever option you choose, you’ll notice that the last set of the day reads, “or more reps.” This is where the fun begins. The last set of the day is the all-out set. You’ll be going for as many reps as possible. I hesitate to tell anyone to do anything to failure, because that’s not what I’m after. I wouldn’t prescribe this. This last set should be a ball buster, though, and it’s the one you really need to focus on. This is when you dig in and try to move the world.
Because you’re working off a weight that’s 10% less than your actual max, you should be able to get the prescribed reps for the day fairly easily. This is a foregone conclusion. On the last set, however, you’ll have to reach further and grind it out – not to failure so you’re dead and can’t train the rest of the week, but it should take some life out of you.
I highly recommend having a goal in mind for these last sets. Sit down the night before, or the week before, and think of the number of reps you’d like to hit. See yourself doing it. Write it down and visualize the bar in your hands or on your back. When it’s time, let yourself go and attack the weight.
I’ve always thought of doing the prescribed reps as simply testing your strength. Anything over and above that builds strength, muscle and character. Doing the prescribed reps shows you and your body that you’re strong enough for the workout. The extra reps are your way of dominating the workout and getting better.
One word of warning, however: don’t take the lighter sets for granted. These will set you up mentally for the big sets. If these sets are light and explosive, you’ll feel confident and strong for your last set. If you take these lightly, or you take a carefree attitude toward them, your mind will not be right for the last set.
As you progress through this program, the weights will increase and getting more reps will get harder. If you progress slowly and start too light, you’ll continue to make progress over a longer period of time, and the last set will continue to be a motivating factor.
Important note: in the 4th week (your deload week), you should NOT be going for max reps. This is a week to get some light work in and prime yourself for the next month of training."0 -
People might disagree with me on this point, but if you aren't lifting to failure for a particular lift, then I don't think your muscles are getting the proper stimulus.
Yes I would disagree, completely.
Common theme amongst almost all strength routines is NOT routinely going to failure. All the Russian systems like Sheiko, smolov to things like 5/3/1 have you doing most of the work at a moderate % of your 1rm and hardly ever to failure. It think you are confusing bodybuilding principles with strength training,
Agreed with Hendrix on this. I don't think training to failure is necessary. I think it could potentially be helpful during overreaching cycles/etc but I wouldn't recommend it on a regular basis.
Agreed. Generally, training to failure on a regular basis is not recommended, either for bb'ing or powerlifting.0 -
I have found the Beyond 5/3/1 approach of joker sets very helpful. On my 5 day, I just go for max reps. On the 3 and 5/3/1 days, I do the prescribed reps (no extras) and then do joker sets. I just keep adding weight until my form breaks down or I fail at that rep. Then I go back and do the first working set again and I'm done (unless I feel badass and then I do the BBB work. Ouch). I may have to stop doing this because it is very hard on this old body. But it sure is fun. I get to see first hand how training at 315x5 leads to a 1RM of 390. 5/3/1 works.
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First thing I would do would be video both lifts and see if there are any obvious form breakdowns/technique issues.
Maybe then look at each lift and where your weak points are then change your assistance work to address that.
This. Examining and training your weak points in your lifts is a key part of being able to get stronger. If you are having problems getting out of the hole on squats or breaking the bar off the floor on deads, then you need to pick assistance lifts that address that. If you are having a problem locking out the lifts, that is different assistance. That's how the WSB protocol helps powerlifters, you train what you are weak at, not what you are good at. As you fix that weakness, then a new one will show up, and you address that. But overall, you continue to progress and get stronger.0
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