Longest Run During Marathon Training
ZenInTexas
Posts: 781 Member
My training plan calls for three 20 mile runs. I was thinking of doing 22 on the middle one purely for the psychological benefits. The training gurus say there is no physical benefit to doing a long run over 20 but I was thinking if I go into the race knowing it's only 4 miles over what I've conquered before it will be easier mentally. Thoughts?
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I had the same question during my marathon training and I can understand the psychological element.
I think the answer I received cited the increased recovery time required (impacting your training schedule) after a 22 mile run.
The longer the run the higher the risk of injury as well.0 -
I am curious to know what people say about this too - because I'm the same way. I know I've read all the research on how 20 miles is plenty and you don't want to risk injury, yada, yada, but I really think psychologically I would feel better knowing I had done a little closer to 26.2...
For my first half marathon I ran up to 13, solely for the psychological benefits!0 -
I've never gone more than 22 miles. I only did one 20 and one 21, but I still ran a lot of cumulative miles. I did the 22 before my first one. The long run is but one component of marathon fitness. Cumulative mileage over time is king.For my first half marathon I ran up to 13, solely for the psychological benefits!
For the HM, there are no drawbacks to running up to and beyond the distance, unlike the marathon where there is a longer recovery time because you do WAY more damage running 22-26 miles than you do for anything up to about 16 miles.0 -
I ran up to twenty. I think I should have had one long run of 22 in retrospect. Either way, I made it!
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So I've picked out my plan for marathon training going for 3 20s and no 22s.
However, for hm training, I go to 16. So only adding 4 miles for a full seems like not enough. Like 22 would be better. I started going to 16 for halfs because I feel like I could run 13.1 miles on any given day now. But the mental strain of race day still gets to me!
In conclusion I think I will stick with the 3 20s if I do it because I'm going to be a basket case either way, but I'd rather be a basket case less likely to injure herself. I think. :-)0 -
My longest run for the 1st marathon I did was 35km, and for the 2nd it was 34km
(so roughly 21 miles)
It's not absolutely necessary.... yet I'm a FIRM BELIEVER in whatever makes you most comfortable with the overall goal!
so if you WANT to include a training run of 22miles for peace of mind, go for it 0 -
I think your plan is a good one. I don't know about the physical benefits of going those extra 2 miles but I think a part of "The Wall" at 20 is that for so many people that is the longest they have gone in training.0
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I think your plan is a good one. I don't know about the physical benefits of going those extra 2 miles but I think a part of "The Wall" at 20 is that for so many people that is the longest they have gone in training.
True story! I ran 19.5 miles (first full), up hills, down hills, was making decent time for me...and BAM! hit a wall for about 4.5 miles. At mile 24, I got a second wind after talking to my coach who ran with me a bit to assess how I was doing. It was a miserable 4.5 miles. I think if I'd had 22 under my belt, maybe the dark spot would not have been so long. We shall see in the near future!0 -
My first marathon was a trail marathon at the White Tanks Mountain. I had hiked every portion of the marathon before, but never ran it. The longest I had ever run before that day was 16 miles. For my first road marathon, I did three 20 milers and three 18 milers leading up to it. I did a three week taper. I fell apart around mile 20. The following year (last year), the girls I was training with did a 22 miler three weeks out from race day. I did as well. I did a 20, 21 and 22 miler (in addition to three 18 milers). I really did get a mental boost from that run. It gave me confidence. I did another marathon 5 weeks after that. So three weeks after the first marathon, I ran 21 miles and did the marathon 2 weeks later. Right now, I have my marathon in 5 weeks. I did my 21 miler Saturday & I'll do 18 this Saturday. Drop to 16, then 22 miles two weeks out from the event. That's just me though. I don't need or want a 3 week taper. I've been hanging around 50 miles a week since September. I've done a 20, 20.5, and 21 in addition to two 18 milers.0
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For my first marathon, the last few weeks of my long runs were 18, 19, 20, 22, 18, 14ish, 10ish, race. That worked for me. I felt physically and psychologically prepared for the race. For my first 50k, my longest run was 26. I've never hit "the wall," though. I imagine most people hit it because they haven't trained for that much time on their feet or they haven't practiced adequate fueling on their long runs. Suffering gracefully is a skill that must be practiced repeatedly
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For my first marathon, the last few weeks of my long runs were 18, 19, 20, 22, 18, 14ish, 10ish, race. That worked for me. I felt physically and psychologically prepared for the race. For my first 50k, my longest run was 26. I've never hit "the wall," though. I imagine most people hit it because they haven't trained for that much time on their feet or they haven't practiced adequate fueling on their long runs. Suffering gracefully is a skill that must be practiced repeatedly
I was right with you until that last part. I think generalizing why people hit the proverbial "wall" is not fair. I trained relentlessly for 5 months prior to my marathon; including fueling and multiple long runs. I also read everything I could find that related to my goal--including Chris McCormack's article, "Embrace the Suck" which I found inspiring. I was prepared mentally and physically. as evidenced by the fact I kept going and finished even after I hit the wall. My next "big" race is a 50k trail run. If I hit the wall, it won't be because I wasn't prepared and I assure you, I'll finish that one too!0 -
For my first marathon, the last few weeks of my long runs were 18, 19, 20, 22, 18, 14ish, 10ish, race. That worked for me. I felt physically and psychologically prepared for the race. For my first 50k, my longest run was 26. I've never hit "the wall," though. I imagine most people hit it because they haven't trained for that much time on their feet or they haven't practiced adequate fueling on their long runs. Suffering gracefully is a skill that must be practiced repeatedly
they haven't practiced adequate fueling on their long runs. I think this is a big problem with first time marathoners.
I have run 4 marathons now 3 road and my first trail marathon this past weekend. Mistakes I have learned from
1. Never run a marathon before you run a marathon!
2. Never try anything new on race day, stick with what you know!
3. Train on the course if you can.
4. Eat, drink, eat, drink
5. it is better to slow down then to stop, unless you are actually hurt.0 -
"The Wall" is a physiological barrier, not a psychological one. It occurs when the body's glycogen stores reach a level at which the body will no longer sacrifice any for the muscles, reserving what little is left for essential brain function. People hit the wall for different reasons. I well trained runner may hit the wall if the overestimate their fitness and run the first half of a marathon too fast.
The purpose of the LSD (long, steady distance) run is to train the body to use a higher ratio of fat to glycogen thereby allowing you to run further and faster on the same amount of internal glycogen stores. Additionally, deprivation training where one does the LSD with no fuel, helps with this process as well. When you add fuel during a training run, the body comes to expect it. If you don't use it to train, but introduce it during a race, the body will welcome it and use it efficiently.0 -
"The Wall" is a physiological barrier, not a psychological one. It occurs when the body's glycogen stores reach a level at which the body will no longer sacrifice any for the muscles, reserving what little is left for essential brain function. People hit the wall for different reasons. I well trained runner may hit the wall if the overestimate their fitness and run the first half of a marathon too fast.
The purpose of the LSD (long, steady distance) run is to train the body to use a higher ratio of fat to glycogen thereby allowing you to run further and faster on the same amount of internal glycogen stores. Additionally, deprivation training where one does the LSD with no fuel, helps with this process as well. When you add fuel during a training run, the body comes to expect it. If you don't use it to train, but introduce it during a race, the body will welcome it and use it efficiently.
THAT!0 -
"The Wall" is a physiological barrier, not a psychological one. It occurs when the body's glycogen stores reach a level at which the body will no longer sacrifice any for the muscles, reserving what little is left for essential brain function. People hit the wall for different reasons. I well trained runner may hit the wall if the overestimate their fitness and run the first half of a marathon too fast.
The purpose of the LSD (long, steady distance) run is to train the body to use a higher ratio of fat to glycogen thereby allowing you to run further and faster on the same amount of internal glycogen stores. Additionally, deprivation training where one does the LSD with no fuel, helps with this process as well. When you add fuel during a training run, the body comes to expect it. If you don't use it to train, but introduce it during a race, the body will welcome it and use it efficiently.
Carson, this makes sense to me, but what about for slow runners? My 20 mile training runs will be around 3.5 hours, probably even closer to the 4 hour mark. . Seems like a long time to run without fuel. Would only taking in a little help? with plans for a more aggressive fueling strategy for the race?0 -
"The Wall" is a physiological barrier, not a psychological one. It occurs when the body's glycogen stores reach a level at which the body will no longer sacrifice any for the muscles, reserving what little is left for essential brain function. People hit the wall for different reasons. I well trained runner may hit the wall if the overestimate their fitness and run the first half of a marathon too fast.
The purpose of the LSD (long, steady distance) run is to train the body to use a higher ratio of fat to glycogen thereby allowing you to run further and faster on the same amount of internal glycogen stores. Additionally, deprivation training where one does the LSD with no fuel, helps with this process as well. When you add fuel during a training run, the body comes to expect it. If you don't use it to train, but introduce it during a race, the body will welcome it and use it efficiently.
Carson, this makes sense to me, but what about for slow runners? My 20 mile training runs will be around 3.5 hours, probably even closer to the 4 hour mark. . Seems like a long time to run without fuel. Would only taking in a little help? with plans for a more aggressive fueling strategy for the race?
Yes, that would probably help, but I wouldn't fuel unless it's absolutely necessary. You'll know as you start to get up over 16 if you are starting to feel it. I'd suggest just trying to fight through though. Once you start to get up over the 3:30 mark, it really is a different world. Anything over 3 hours is when you start to hit the point of diminishing returns. Of course, if you are planning for a 4+ hour marathon, stopping at 3 hours isn't going to do you much good.0 -
The only time I use gels/chews/etc. during training is if I am trying to determine if some new product will work for me. I think that if you are using those things during training you are training your body to expect that and it will be less effective on race day.0
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The only time I use gels/chews/etc. during training is if I am trying to determine if some new product will work for me. I think that if you are using those things during training you are training your body to expect that and it will be less effective on race day.
Bingo!0 -
I did a 22 mile run 1 month before the first of 2 marathons I ran this fall. And I used my 20 and 22 milers as almost full blown dress rehearsals for gu meaning I took gu's with me and took them at predetermined intervals. Worked great for me.0
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I did a 22 mile run 1 month before the first of 2 marathons I ran this fall. And I used my 20 and 22 milers as almost full blown dress rehearsals for gu meaning I took gu's with me and took them at predetermined intervals. Worked great for me.
This is a great plan. I will probably do the same on the 22.0
