I want my marathon pace to be 10:30 (ish)
mitchyinge
Posts: 196
Don't laugh at me! I know this doesn't sound very ambitious, but have done two half marathons and the best was 2:28 (other was 2:32) so have entered a marathon next May assuming it will take me about 5:30. My average pace, Garmin says, for runs over 10 miles is 11:11. Today was the first time I did any sort of longish (it was 9 miles) run under 11:00 (10:50) and so it got me wondering if I could make a bit of an effort and maybe not be the world's slowest runner after all.
Is 10:30 a realistic goal? Other than trying to run some of my longer runs more quickly is there anything I could do to speed up?
Is 10:30 a realistic goal? Other than trying to run some of my longer runs more quickly is there anything I could do to speed up?
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Replies
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Don't try to run faster, just be consistent and run longer. You will gain aerobic fitness by running lots of easy miles over time (months and years, not weeks and days). Increasing your total weekly mileage will do more for your pace than anything else right now. Don't try to force the pace down, let the pace find you.0
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What Carson said...for my last (and first!) half, I did a marathon training program. This meant I built up and consistently ran distances longer than 13 miles. The key is building up the ability to run a long distance. I do speed work, as well, but I consider the long run to be the most important run of the week.
Good luck!0 -
Don't try to run faster, just be consistent and run longer. You will gain aerobic fitness by running lots of easy miles over time (months and years, not weeks and days). Increasing your total weekly mileage will do more for your pace than anything else right now. Don't try to force the pace down, let the pace find you.
This is all true. I have been following this advice for close to a year now, steadily increasing my mileage month after month and the proof is in the results. I ran my first half marathon in 2:08 and my second in 1:56, they were about 8 months apart. As hard as it is to be patient and put in the time that's really what it takes.0 -
I like that advice, thanks Carson (and Keith)
my long runs go up and down, am not very consistent, they are between 10 and 14 miles, I add roughly a mile a month I think but drop back down again0 -
thanks zen too, I suppose on the day I will just be thrilled to finish at all
am too lazy to push myself very hard anyway, I don't like having to 'recover' from a run, I just like running in a sort of steady state really0 -
ok so, sorry to go on, currently weekly mileage is about 25 or around 100 a month - do you do an extra shortish run in the week or add 10% to your long run? Does it make a difference, just personal preference?0
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I like that advice, thanks Carson (and Keith)
my long runs go up and down, am not very consistent, they are between 10 and 14 miles, I add roughly a mile a month I think but drop back down again
It's not just the long run that is important. My long runs range between 10 and 16, but I am consistently putting in about 50 miles per week. I'm not suggesting that you run that many miles, but if you are capable of running 4 days a week, then you need to run 4 days a week. Then add another day and be consistent with that. It's about the aerobic fitness gained from cumulative mileage over time. So, if you peak at 25 miles per week, make it your goal to hit that every week and then increase it gradually. Daniels advocates a 1 mile increase for each day you run. If you are running 4 days, you can increase your weekly mileage by 4 miles. It can be all in one run or spread out over all the runs. Increase and hold for 2 weeks, cut back a week and then increase again. Lather, rinse, repeat.0 -
I like that advice, thanks Carson (and Keith)
my long runs go up and down, am not very consistent, they are between 10 and 14 miles, I add roughly a mile a month I think but drop back down again
It's not just the long run that is important. My long runs range between 10 and 16, but I am consistently putting in about 50 miles per week. I'm not suggesting that you run that many miles, but if you are capable of running 4 days a week, then you need to run 4 days a week. Then add another day and be consistent with that. It's about the aerobic fitness gained from cumulative mileage over time. So, if you peak at 25 miles per week, make it your goal to hit that every week and then increase it gradually. Daniels advocates a 1 mile increase for each day you run. If you are running 4 days, you can increase your weekly mileage by 4 miles. It can be all in one run or spread out over all the runs. Increase and hold for 2 weeks, cut back a week and then increase again. Lather, rinse, repeat.
I love how simple that is. I run 4-6 days a week, so I think (I know) I'm capable of 5 and need to do that consistently (that word again) and hit about a 30 mile target each week. Ok good I have a plan. And I don't mind if I'm not much faster by May, I like enjoying running rather than getting injured by it!0 -
I like that advice, thanks Carson (and Keith)
my long runs go up and down, am not very consistent, they are between 10 and 14 miles, I add roughly a mile a month I think but drop back down again
It's not just the long run that is important. My long runs range between 10 and 16, but I am consistently putting in about 50 miles per week. I'm not suggesting that you run that many miles, but if you are capable of running 4 days a week, then you need to run 4 days a week. Then add another day and be consistent with that. It's about the aerobic fitness gained from cumulative mileage over time. So, if you peak at 25 miles per week, make it your goal to hit that every week and then increase it gradually. Daniels advocates a 1 mile increase for each day you run. If you are running 4 days, you can increase your weekly mileage by 4 miles. It can be all in one run or spread out over all the runs. Increase and hold for 2 weeks, cut back a week and then increase again. Lather, rinse, repeat.
This is where Carson and I disagree... I ran a half in 1:51(8:20 pace) running 3 times a week, averaging around 30 miles a week. It's not a one size fits all world. There is definitely a lower ceiling running the way I do versus the way Carson does and you certainly can't go wrong with his advice. But I have neither the time nor interest in running 50 miles a week. And, it is certainly not a 100% necessity for the OP to pile up that kind of mileage to reach her goal pace.
Different strokes and all. ;0)0 -
but have done two half marathons and the best was 2:28 (other was 2:32) so have entered a marathon next May assuming it will take me about 5:30.
Is 10:30 a realistic goal?
Simple answer. Not realistic. Let me use myself as an example
I run a half marathon at 7:40 pace- 1:40. Using your logic I should train for a marathon pace A MIN PER MILE FASTER than my half marathon pace. This would set me up with a marathon goal of 2:54 at 6:40 pace... Now my REAL marathon PR/Pace.... DRUM ROLL PLEASE- 3:45....
You are not being realistic with yourself. Don't set yourself up for a disappointment or injury! The thought of running 6:40 pace for a marathon to me sounds ABSOLUTLY INSANE. So I am sorry but when you say you currently run a half at 11:30 pace and you want to run a full at 10:30 I feel the same way...
I would traing for your marathon pace to be 12:30. That would be an AWESOME time for you. Seriously, marathons are an amazing accomplishment- don't try to be-little your own accomplishment or goal because you didn't "break 4 hours" or "run it fast". It's all relative. It's your first marathon- go out and experience it with no expectations!0 -
I like enjoying running rather than getting injured by it!
I think this is the most important thing! If you do most (or all) of your runs at a pace that is enjoyable to you and slowly build your mileage, the fitness increase will come. You'll get faster without even trying to.
If this is your first marathon, finishing might be enough of a goal. I ran my first one last year. Initially, I had a goal of 9 minute miles. As I got closer, I realized that was too ambitious and changed it to 10 minute miles. On race day, I felt great and went out at 9 minute pace anyway. I ran the first half in under 2 hours, but every mile after that was slower than 11 minute pace. I hit the wall around mile 19 and had to walk most of two miles. I was able to start jogging again, but those last 5 miles were an hour and a half of torture. I never wanted to run again. The second half took over 3 hours. When I finished, I didn't feel like I had accomplished anything. It took several weeks before I felt good about finishing a marathon! If finishing had been my goal from the beginning, and I had run a consistent 12 minute mile pace, I would have finished about the same time and felt a lot better about myself.0 -
I disagree with most of the above. You need big miles to train for a marathon (your biggest mileage weeks, about a month before the event, need to be in the 50-55 mile range -- roughly twice the distance of the race, with 20 or 22 as your long run). But cross training and speedwork definitely help. I went from a 5:35 marathon in 2007 to a 4:35 marathon in 2009 (same course). Here's the thing -- earlier in 2009 I ran a 5:02, so I cut almost a half hour in one summer by doing more cycling and swimming along with 30-50 mile weeks running. I was doing about 100 miles running (plus) per month and 100 mile cycling. And I would do intervals on the treadmill once a week except in recovery weeks (every 3rd or 4th week).
So I don't think your goal is unrealistic. You'll race how you train. Good luck!0 -
Simple answer. Not realistic.
This!If this is your first marathon, finishing might be enough of a goal.
And this!
Seriously, you are not going to cut that much time off your pace by then for a marathon. Just enjoy your first marathon and don't overdo it.0 -
I like that advice, thanks Carson (and Keith)
my long runs go up and down, am not very consistent, they are between 10 and 14 miles, I add roughly a mile a month I think but drop back down again
It's not just the long run that is important. My long runs range between 10 and 16, but I am consistently putting in about 50 miles per week. I'm not suggesting that you run that many miles, but if you are capable of running 4 days a week, then you need to run 4 days a week. Then add another day and be consistent with that. It's about the aerobic fitness gained from cumulative mileage over time. So, if you peak at 25 miles per week, make it your goal to hit that every week and then increase it gradually. Daniels advocates a 1 mile increase for each day you run. If you are running 4 days, you can increase your weekly mileage by 4 miles. It can be all in one run or spread out over all the runs. Increase and hold for 2 weeks, cut back a week and then increase again. Lather, rinse, repeat.
This is where Carson and I disagree... I ran a half in 1:51(8:20 pace) running 3 times a week, averaging around 30 miles a week. It's not a one size fits all world. There is definitely a lower ceiling running the way I do versus the way Carson does and you certainly can't go wrong with his advice. But I have neither the time nor interest in running 50 miles a week. And, it is certainly not a 100% necessity for the OP to pile up that kind of mileage to reach her goal pace.
Different strokes and all. ;0)
There is a huge difference between the HM and the marathon and your 3 day a week, low mileage approach will probably not be real effective.
Also, I don't believe I even suggested a mileage goal, only "more miles". 50 won't do it for me (I peak at around 85), but it might for the OP. 3 times a week at 30 miles won't though. That's just asking to walk the last 10 miles.0 -
Ok, thanks everyone. So it's keep running consistently, gradually run more, and don't expect too much progress in terms of speed. I appreciate all your thoughts so far!0
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I like that advice, thanks Carson (and Keith)
my long runs go up and down, am not very consistent, they are between 10 and 14 miles, I add roughly a mile a month I think but drop back down again
It's not just the long run that is important. My long runs range between 10 and 16, but I am consistently putting in about 50 miles per week. I'm not suggesting that you run that many miles, but if you are capable of running 4 days a week, then you need to run 4 days a week. Then add another day and be consistent with that. It's about the aerobic fitness gained from cumulative mileage over time. So, if you peak at 25 miles per week, make it your goal to hit that every week and then increase it gradually. Daniels advocates a 1 mile increase for each day you run. If you are running 4 days, you can increase your weekly mileage by 4 miles. It can be all in one run or spread out over all the runs. Increase and hold for 2 weeks, cut back a week and then increase again. Lather, rinse, repeat.
This is where Carson and I disagree... I ran a half in 1:51(8:20 pace) running 3 times a week, averaging around 30 miles a week. It's not a one size fits all world. There is definitely a lower ceiling running the way I do versus the way Carson does and you certainly can't go wrong with his advice. But I have neither the time nor interest in running 50 miles a week. And, it is certainly not a 100% necessity for the OP to pile up that kind of mileage to reach her goal pace.
Different strokes and all. ;0)
There is a huge difference between the HM and the marathon and your 3 day a week, low mileage approach will probably not be real effective.
Also, I don't believe I even suggested a mileage goal, only "more miles". 50 won't do it for me (I peak at around 85), but it might for the OP. 3 times a week at 30 miles won't though. That's just asking to walk the last 10 miles.
maybe so...maybe so. Time will tell.0 -
Ok, thanks everyone. So it's keep running consistently, gradually run more, and don't expect too much progress in terms of speed. I appreciate all your thoughts so far!
No, you will make progress, but HM pace doesn't equal marathon pace. For some, the difference may only be 15 seconds per mile, for others 30 seconds or more. Just get the miles in now, then race a HM 5 to 6 weeks out from your marathon and use that result to help calculate the expected pace. Use the McMillan calculator and then add 20 minutes to the marathon time since it will be your first one. The pace will be what it will be.0 -
Thank you! I have a half in March, that might be close enough. I'm really not overly obsessed with doing the full thing in a particular time but I suppose I had a good run today and it made me wonder if I could or should push myself. Really I will be pleased just to complete it without problems. It's nice to have somewhere to talk about this with people who know what they're doing!0
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I'm a firm believer of speed or distance not both at the same time. My training speeds are based on my best race, and take into account the distance I run. I've PR'd every race I train for - which is about 2 per year, and I run others for fun. I trained my last marathon - using a half marathon plan, added one mile to each long run (I've ran about 13 halfs and this was my 3rd full). After my PR half, I added one 20 distance and still PR'd my full. It's more intensity of training and consistency that will get you there. With your first full, I strongly suggest a "finish" goal not a time goal.0
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Im still a relative newbie to this as well. I ran 2 fulls last year- and my average pace is a bit slower than yours. I can run a half in about 2hrs40. My first full I had all expectations (even though i tried not to). I trained using Hal Higdons marathon training plan. I'm a fan of a proper plan. I trained exactly how i should have. On the day things went a bit funny and i finished my first full in 6hrs23. 6 months later (still training well, but prob not as well as the first lot) i finished my full in 5hrs 40.
The only goals i have now when it comes to running are to have a good time (even if it means walking a bit), and to finish happy and only a little sore. Not horribly sore and sad.
My suggestion to you is to sign up for a race. If it's a half (which you're already accomplished at) and you want to work on speed, look up a plan to help you improve speed. If it's a full and you want to work on distance, then do that. I agree that it's too hard to do both, and the speed will come with time.0 -
I think you should run your marathon with no particular goal time in mind and then see how your half marathon time improves.
In 2012, I ran my first HM in 2:22:30. 13 months later I ran a HM in 2:06:00. I am debating a fall marathon next year. I run 25-30+ per week, have been since February before that it was 20. McMillan suggests that I can run a marathon in 4:25. I think that's crazy. It isn't my goal time, but I imagine my first full would be more like 4:50, about an 11 min pace and I can currently run 16 miles at a 10:30. I just don't think it's realistic that I'll average better for a full marathon than I currently do for 16 miler. So my goal will be just to finish. I'll worry about time for marathon number 2.0 -
I wanted a 10:30 pace and then *kitten* got real at mile 18-22 and I lost my mind haha. I finished much slower than I ever expected. My half marathon PR is 2:03. What I learned about my first marathon is don't worry about pace and just get to the finish line. My next marathon I am going to get to my goal.
Good luck!!0 -
thanks so much everyone, I feel relieved
it's nice to carry on as I am, logging more miles and enjoying myself without any pressure - I love running, I don't want it to be a thing that I have to be good at or do in a perfect way, I just want to enjoy it
ETA - I wondered (briefly) yesterday if I would get more out of my running if I made a greater effort but today I feel like I have permission to carry on having a nice time with it0 -
This is a really good thread. I love the advice to focus on the enjoyment of running and building up your mileage slowly vs. risking a burnout by aggressively pushing yourself for the sake of a particular time. This is a great group here. Runners rock!0
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This is a great group here. Runners rock!
I agree! I've been playing with that McMillan calculator, it's interesting to note that I run 10ks at a slower pace than my longer runs or a HM. Am very slow to warm up and get going, don't start moving freely until the 5th or 6th mile and my favourite distance just to run (not race) is 10 miles. If I had any sense I would just do that forever but I won't be happy until I know what a marathon feels like!0 -
This is a great group here. Runners rock!
I agree! I've been playing with that McMillan calculator, it's interesting to note that I run 10ks at a slower pace than my longer runs or a HM. Am very slow to warm up and get going, don't start moving freely until the 5th or 6th mile and my favourite distance just to run (not race) is 10 miles. If I had any sense I would just do that forever but I won't be happy until I know what a marathon feels like!
That's why you have to do a proper warm up for a 5K or 10K. For me, I have to run an easy 3 miles with some strides before a race that short.0 -
I'm so stupid I've never even thought of warming up (beyond a bit of a walk beforehand), unless it's an organised race and there is a proper session before you start :blushing:
feel quite optimistic about Project Consistency anyway, I think I should at least improve my half marathon time in March even if the full distance is still an unknowable entity0
