I set up MFP with 5% carbs, 25% protein, 70% fat. However, I really only use them as loose guidelines. I try to stay under 25 g of carbs, get my recommended amount of daily protein (anywhere around 65g - 100g is acceptable for my lean body mass) and then eat as much fat as I need to feel full.

25g of carbs or less (it's usually around 15-20g)
85g of protein
and as much fat as I can get in before I'm full (84g max)

I don't pay much attention to the %s, to be honest they're not really the important part at all.

Fat= 75% (117 g)
Protien= 20% (70 g)
Carbs= 5% (18 g)

I follow percentages as well, because I may eat , 1200, 1400 cals one day or 1600 the other.

70% f
25% p
5% c

You started by saying "It's not about the percentages," and then went on to detail precisely why the keto ratio is a helpful thing for someone starting this diet.

I only phrased it in this way because you insinuated that the percentages are all that matters. They are a tool and sufficient for many people, but they are estimations and not absolutes. Perhaps I misunderstood your post, but that is what it sounded like you were suggesting. My post has nothing to do with the goals of those on the ketogenic diet, whether it be weight loss, body recomp, or the health benefits. I am simply trying to explain the best way to ensure that one stays in ketosis and doesn't lose lean body mass. I am also not intending to condescend; I am only trying to extend my knowledge to those that haven't heard it and think that they're seriously screwing up when they end up with a day at 1300 calories, 5% carbs, 40% protein and 55% fat every now and then. Depending on their LBM, this won't be harmful if they're eating the appropriate amount of protein-- it just means that they weren't as hungry that day, and that's fine. Some people just get too hung up on macro percentages without understanding where they come from.

Third, I've looked through enough Food Diaries on MFP to see that perhaps 10-15% of the people "on keto" probably aren't actually on keto. Either because their starting carbs target is too high, or their protein target is too high, or they "only eat fat until I feel full"†. In all of those scenarios, their macros aren't even in the ballpark of a keto ratio. Thus, their odds of reaching a keto-adapted state are greatly reduced.

That is exactly what I am trying to help with. If one keeps to the suggested carb intake (~20g - 50g depending on sensitivity to carbs) and the appropriate amount of protein for their LBM, they should not have issues. If those macros are held fairly constant, fat will be the only changing variable from day to day. Its macro ratio can vary depending on the day and one's level of hunger/calorie intake. This won't affect ketosis, it will only affect hunger.

† Here's a grand pronouncement for you: For some of us, keto is
not about "eating fat until you're satiated". It's about losing weight
in a precise, controlled manner.

Look, I'm not trying to attack your post, I'm just trying to explain the science behind the macro ratios. I feel a bit attacked by your post, especially when you tell me that I'm condescending by "proclaiming what keto is about..." and then turn around and say that "It's about losing weight in a precise, controlled manner." If that is someone's goal with keto, eating to satiation while staying in ketosis is helpful. I don't see why it wouldn't be.

That is definitely one end of the continuum. The other is, "the percentages don't matter." I'm fighting for a middle ground here.

Fair enough. I can appreciate that. Most people don't need to dwell on the numbers too much, I've just seen a fair number of r/keto posts asking about stalls when they're eating way too much protein (due to only using the percentages given by the keto calculator). I just like to remind people that percentages aren't everything.

My point is precisely that eating to satiety doesn't affect only hunger. It affects weight loss. For someone working keto with a 30% deficit, not hitting their fat target by a mile "because I feel full" is burning through the body's stores of fat at a pretty speedy rate. And the Keto Calculator has already warned them about the 30% deficit!

I understand. Deficits that are too large can be an issue, but most people won't be able to eat at that large of a deficit for too long and still claim that they're not hungry. For those that can, I think that using macro percentages could be valuable.

It was preceded by a tongue-in-cheek "Here's a grand pronouncement for you"... and it included the modifier "for some of us".

I'm not spoiling for a fight here, either. But I don't understand the resistance in promoting a well-accepted keto tool that can make things easier AND safer for beginners.

(In this thread alone, there are already people posting about their 20% protein ratio. I've seen people with ratios that don't even add up to 100%! Do you think they're are all exceptions to the rule, based on LBM?)

Alrighty. I don't normally like to get into debates and thus don't post much on forums and such (unless I think that I might be helping someone). I don't have a problem with people using those percentages, especially if they're successfully achieving their goals using them. I just like to inform people that they aren't ALWAYS the best way to determine macro intake because I've seen people stalling (with no clue how to proceed) due to trying to follow macro percentages to the letter (when their goal is weight loss).

Of course exceptions to the rule are just that (exceptions to the rule), but I'm just trying to be helpful in case those people are struggling to achieve their goals on keto.

Glad that we cleared that up. Truce? Haha.

Oh yeah, people definitely overreact to stalls. I personally don't worry much about a stall or try to change things up unless it lasts for about a month or longer. R/keto is definitely inundated with posts like "I HAVEN'T LOST WEIGHT IN 5 DAYS, HALP!" and too many people recommend drastic changes when they're not always warranted.

Hahaha. Fat fasting. I've actually tried to look into that, but there isn't a lot of solid, scientific evidence supporting or refuting its efficacy. It does seem to help people break stalls sometimes (anecdotally), but it could be simply due to reducing carb and calorie intake. The lack of protein is definitely worrying, especially when people try to fat fast for more than a couple days.

My macros are:

70/29/1 I keep my Carbs well below 1 percent and try to keep my sugar at 0. It is all about the numbers but for me, the calorie count and micros are important too. I am a Medical Professional who logs extensive data as to how food affects my results. I can assure you that each person is different. There are no "Magic" numbers, only guidelines. You have to do the work to find out what works.
I am currently on a 20 day water fast with extensive data logging. If you are interested in sharing your research or seeing mine, please add me.

I don't pay much attention to the %s, to be honest they're not really the important part at all.

Actually, the keto ratios really are an important part. For ketosis to keep working, you have to keep a certain balance between fat and protein.

For example, if you are not eating the proper % of fat, your body will teach itself to break down protein for energy. And having your body burn protein is generally not a good idea if you want to, oh, I don't know, maybe keep those muscles you started out with.

Perhaps you're been doing keto long enough to have developed a good sense of your percentages, but people just starting out need to learn the 5 / 35 / 60 keto ratio, and get a sixth sense for it by tracking it every day.

I know there's been a lot of back and forth on this (I was away for the weekend... sue me :P) but I'll step in and answer to the first comment on what I said.

Percentages do NOT matter, it's just a general guideline. You need to hit your protein macro grams (or be as close to it as possible). Your protein macro grams will vary based on your lean body mass, once calculated, if you do not exceed that number your body will not use ingested protein for fuel because all ingested protein will go towards maintaining muscle. And by not going under that number, your body will not use muscle mass as fuel.

You also need to stay under your carb limit, which also varies person to person. I've met some keto'ers who can get away with 50g per day and still remain in ketosis, others need to stay below 20g.

Fat simply fills up the remaining calories in your day. Some days if you're not very hungry you may end up eating 10g of carbs, hitting your protein macro, and then maybe only eating 20g of fat and you're done. That would definitely not be a 5/25/70 ratio, but is still very keto. Because you are in ketosis, your body uses your fat stores already in your body to fuel yourself. That is quite literally, the definition of ketosis. A state where your body is turning STORED fat (not ingested fat) into ketone bodies and using them for fuel.

If your body is turning stored fat into fuel efficiently, you can get away with a very low fat intake and find yourself not hungry very often at all, it all depends on how many calories you want to eat, not the macro %'s you want to achieve.

darthluiggi explains it here as well (a keto'er who has been on keto for about 13 years): http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1uex6r/whats_more_important_calories_from_fat_or_the/


EDIT: also keep in mind that if you have a very high caloric intake (some people do) and you set your macro percentages to say, 5% carbs, you could very well be setting yourself up to have a daily intake that exceeds 20g of carbs and throwing you out of ketosis. It's all about the grams.

A great place to *kitten* your goals is http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

You enter your personal information (gender, height, current weight, age, typical activity level) and it calculates your base metabolic rate and daily energy expenditure.

You estimate your body fat % (there are links for a few different ways to get a good estimate).

Then you can select absolute grams of net carbs that is your daily goal.
It is usually recommended to stay under 20 g of carbs for your induction period and make sure you maintain ketosis at that level. Once adapted, some people can stay in ketosis at significantly higher carb intake, you can experiment by slowly upping your intake and see if you stay in ketosis. Some people can stay in ketosis at up to 50 g of carbs per day!

You are then given a range of absolute grams of protein that would be heathy, with recommendations depending on how much you plan to exercise and the caloric deficit you choose. Eating too much protein can lead to a production of glucose, which will interfere with your weight loss. Eating too little protein can lead to muscle loss, and lean muscle burns more calories than fat (and means less strength, tone, and definition), so it is counterproductive for dieting.

Finally, you will choose your caloric deficit, which will fix the absolute number of grams of fat which will be your goal.
Deficits about 25% are considered pretty extreme, too much of a deficit will drive your body into 'starvation mode' and derail your weight loss.

Deficits around 20% are considered 'moderate difficulty'. If you are hungry and miserable all the time at a 20% deficit, try a lower value. Diets are only as effective as our commitment to them, don't make things harder than they need to be!

A 15% deficit is considered average and a good starting place. (Unless you are already very athletic and lean, then it's recommended to use an even smaller deficit!)

In the end, you will be presented with your daily goals, both as a percentage of your daily caloric intake, and as absolute values in grams. Both approaches are equivalent if you get pretty close to your intended daily total caloric intake. To keep on track during the day, I created a spreadsheet for myself (I'm a little obsessive, and I like math). I've arranged it so I can copy my 'Totals' from my MFP Food Diary (Calories, Carbs, Fiber, Protein, Fat -- calories are in kcal, the rest in grams), paste them into my spreadsheet and I can see easily my total net carbs in grams, and my percentage of calories in each category.

Note: net carbs can come out wrong if any components of a recipe or meal have more fiber than carbs, but that's not common, and I don't think we need to be so exact on a daily basis anyway.

As for my current goal values and percentages...

I have set my goals rather aggressively, and am seeing fast weight loss when I don't intentionally take a day off for a special occasion and get myself kicked out of ketosis.

I am 5'4, currently ~165 lb, female, 32 yrs old. This gives me a Base Metabolic Rate of 1447 kcal.

I am mostly sedentary (apart from trips to the gym). Therefore my estimated Total Daily Energy Expenditure is 1736 kcal.

I estimate my body fat percentage at 30-35%. So I have approximately 49kg (107lbs) of lean body mass, and 26kg (58lbs) of body fat. This includes about 6kg (13lbs) of essential body fat.

I choose to aim for 20 g of net carbs per day. (I will probably increase these eventually - for now I want to play it safe.)

My recommended protein allotment is between 65g and 92g. Staying on the low end if sedentary, and on the high end if putting my muscles under a lot of stress or eating at a large deficit. I've chosen a goal of about 75 g per day, seems to be working for me so far.

I've chosen a caloric deficit on the high side of moderate at 24% (1320 kcal total). This is probably more aggressive than it needs to be, but I am usually pretty satisfied with a caloric intake between 1200 and 1300 kcal, and I don't stress too much if I exceed my "allotment" on occasion.

Now total calories from selected numbers of grams of net carbs and protein are calculated, and the needed numbers of grams of fat to reach my caloric goal for the day is calculated from the leftover calories. Percentages are calculated from those values.

In summary, my daily goals are currently 1320 kcal total, 20 g (6%) net carbs, 75 g (23%) protein, 104 g (71%) fats!

Our bodies do respond differently, so do experiment with different ratios and deficits until you find the challenge and speed of results you are comfortable with. You will probably also want to re-calculate your goals every 10 lbs or so. As your caloric needs will change with your weight and body fat %!

Good luck on your journey!

Aw, hell if I know. Somewhere around 65/30/5 to 75/24/1, depending on day? I tend to eat the same stuff I have for 2 years now.

I throw a lot of ethanol in there too. Vodka and diet root beer. That doesn't really fit under any macronutrient.

I thought that was what was meant by "percentages don't matter", you can be in ketosis and burning boy fat at 65/30/5 or 80/20/0. What matters is not eating a lot of carbs, not eating too much protein, and filling yourself with fat.

What's most important for the noobs, in my ever so humble opinion, is having ENOUGH calories instead of too little, and realizing that the guideline for grocery shopping should be "8g fat + 8g protein +1g carb" is the easiest allowable starting ratio to follow, just to get them in the habit of buying the right stuff. That comes out to 66.666...% / 29.629...% / 3.703...% That's good, right?