Advice needed...
Culprit9
Posts: 16 Member
Working on a lifestyle change, main component is getting fit.
Tried a couple of the logging apps available on my android to aid in following a plan and measuring PROGRESS. Decided to go with this one since the community seems to be the best.
For now I have started logging calories in, and using the MFP calculators am getting a rough idea of where I am at on the EAT. I will work on getting more specifics regarding LBM, macros and such in the next few days.
...but now I am working the TRAIN part of the plan and am looking for a bit of guidance. 50 yrs, 5'10" and 192lb. Since I am going to bore you with stuff below, i wont bore you with back in the day stuff, but i had a history (to a point in time) of exercising well and eating right.
I like to run. I like to lift. Body parts still function as they should for the most part.
My idea is to cardio three days (T, TH, S) on a 10k in 24 week plan. Pace will be slow starting out but progressing to a 9 min/mile pace in wk 24.
Lift days (M, T, W) will be doing things like squat, overhead press, bench, row, deadlift. I will prob be doing squats every lift, but will alternate days for the other lifts. Each lift will have 3 warm up sets, and 2 works sets of 5 reps, and a third of 8. Once I can get the 3rd set without form breaking down I will add 5lb.
Sunday rest.
Are there days that I could do ab work or will I be getting enough between running and lifting initially?
Is all of this too much for someone who is basically starting out/over or is it best to hit all areas of fitness from the begining (nutrition, cardio & strength)? Motivation is not a factor, i just want to minimize the risk of injury or sickness keeping me off the TRAIN.
Tried a couple of the logging apps available on my android to aid in following a plan and measuring PROGRESS. Decided to go with this one since the community seems to be the best.
For now I have started logging calories in, and using the MFP calculators am getting a rough idea of where I am at on the EAT. I will work on getting more specifics regarding LBM, macros and such in the next few days.
...but now I am working the TRAIN part of the plan and am looking for a bit of guidance. 50 yrs, 5'10" and 192lb. Since I am going to bore you with stuff below, i wont bore you with back in the day stuff, but i had a history (to a point in time) of exercising well and eating right.
I like to run. I like to lift. Body parts still function as they should for the most part.
My idea is to cardio three days (T, TH, S) on a 10k in 24 week plan. Pace will be slow starting out but progressing to a 9 min/mile pace in wk 24.
Lift days (M, T, W) will be doing things like squat, overhead press, bench, row, deadlift. I will prob be doing squats every lift, but will alternate days for the other lifts. Each lift will have 3 warm up sets, and 2 works sets of 5 reps, and a third of 8. Once I can get the 3rd set without form breaking down I will add 5lb.
Sunday rest.
Are there days that I could do ab work or will I be getting enough between running and lifting initially?
Is all of this too much for someone who is basically starting out/over or is it best to hit all areas of fitness from the begining (nutrition, cardio & strength)? Motivation is not a factor, i just want to minimize the risk of injury or sickness keeping me off the TRAIN.
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Replies
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I'm not sure what your activity levels have been or are but regardless that seems a little aggressive for starting up again.
I know us older guys hate admitting it but the body does not recover like it used to. But even if you were in your 20's you generally wouldn't want to target the same muscle groups every day unless you are doing just body weight type exercises or you were doing the crazy Bulgarian training methodology.
I currently give my muscles a full week in between major lifts and 2 days between shared. So if i do deadlifts on monday, squats happen on thursday. The exercises you described are the big 4 compound strength exercises. I never do any running/sprinting exercises before lower body day.
However, your body may be able to recover quickly but i'd still give a day in between the major exercises.
As for your strength program, i'm not sure what you are looking for. There are various popular programs out there depending on your experience.
One that i've seen recommended but have never done is stronglifts 5x5.
http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/
DeFranco's Westside for Skinny *kitten*
Part 1:
http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/60-westside-for-skinny-*kitten*-a-modified-lifting-program-for-qhardgainersq.html
Part 2:
http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/64-westside-for-skinny-*kitten*-part-ii-.html
Part 3:
http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/65-westside-for-skinny-*kitten*-part3.html
Jim Wendler's 5/3/1
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_pure_strength
That is an older article. I've done 5/3/1 for over a year and works very well for me. If you do adopt his program you will definitely want his books that have a lot of info on the program, how to tweak it and the accessory work you will want to do.
These are some of the more common ones, there are obviously a lot of other programs out there. All 3 of these incorporate the core exercises you say you want to do. Hopefully some others can chime in with some other suggestions. I do know Body Building dot com has resources for some other programs.0 -
Working on a lifestyle change, main component is getting fit.
Tried a couple of the logging apps available on my android to aid in following a plan and measuring PROGRESS. Decided to go with this one since the community seems to be the best.
For now I have started logging calories in, and using the MFP calculators am getting a rough idea of where I am at on the EAT. I will work on getting more specifics regarding LBM, macros and such in the next few days.
...but now I am working the TRAIN part of the plan and am looking for a bit of guidance. 50 yrs, 5'10" and 192lb. Since I am going to bore you with stuff below, i wont bore you with back in the day stuff, but i had a history (to a point in time) of exercising well and eating right.
I like to run. I like to lift. Body parts still function as they should for the most part.
My idea is to cardio three days (T, TH, S) on a 10k in 24 week plan. Pace will be slow starting out but progressing to a 9 min/mile pace in wk 24.
Lift days (M, T, W) will be doing things like squat, overhead press, bench, row, deadlift. I will prob be doing squats every lift, but will alternate days for the other lifts. Each lift will have 3 warm up sets, and 2 works sets of 5 reps, and a third of 8. Once I can get the 3rd set without form breaking down I will add 5lb.
Sunday rest.
Are there days that I could do ab work or will I be getting enough between running and lifting initially?
Is all of this too much for someone who is basically starting out/over or is it best to hit all areas of fitness from the begining (nutrition, cardio & strength)? Motivation is not a factor, i just want to minimize the risk of injury or sickness keeping me off the TRAIN.
Tagging. I'll reply to this over the weekend. I think you'd be much better off setting lift days to m,w,f to put a rest day between lift days. This way you can basically squat every day, do at least 1 push and 1 pull + accessory if you want to.0 -
Thanks for reading and replying
Doh,,, re read my post and lift days were off. Meant to say Mon Wed Fri (not Mon Tue Wed)
I know my BMI is high, but don't think I'm in too bad of shape.
Started tracking various things Jan 1 and my daily step counts are 5000-8000 (a bit of stairs in there). I was using several different websites and phone apps trying to find one that I liked best - and this is where I ended up. Seems like a really good tracking site, with good integrations, but reading through some of the communities and groups is what sold me (especially EPT - I am not one to post things online - normally just lurk, but this group just feels right). Got home from work a while ago and plan on will transferring entries over from the other programs tonight just so I can represent a Jan 1 start on calories in and out.
BTW.... Started off with a bang and ran a 5.5k at midnight on new years eve. Ran at a comfortable pace, walked the hills, and finished the 5.5k in 33 minutes. Felt fine the next day. Ran on a few occasions since between 1.5 and 3 miles without any problems. My cool down and after exercise stretches are almost as long as the time spent running.
Lifting will be a real slow pace progression wise as that's the thing I think will give me the most trouble if I am not smart.
Years ago my son was planning on playing football in high school so I found a good deal on a used power rack & lots of accessories (which I still have and plan on using). Started him on a program I found on the Internet from Mark Rippetoe (simply strength or something like that) which is basically what I am planning on doing with a much slower ramp. Low weights, lots of warm up, and focus on form.. Kind of funny there - I've got an engineering degree and always used to go with the mantra "function before form", but I guess in strength training it's kind of the opposite.
My specific question about ab work starting out will probably end up answering itself. I know I am lining up lots of changes, and the more I think about it I will probably hold off on abs initially. If after a couple weeks I still feel good after a run or lift session I may start on some simple crunches or similar that targets the abs.0 -
.....(especially EPT - I am not one to post things online - normally just lurk, but this group just feels right)....
Dang, there I go again. Meant ETP not EPT.. I need to proofread next time before another TLDR post.0 -
Tagging0
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Years ago my son was planning on playing football in high school so I found a good deal on a used power rack & lots of accessories (which I still have and plan on using). Started him on a program I found on the Internet from Mark Rippetoe (simply strength or something like that) which is basically what I am planning on doing with a much slower ramp.
Starting Strength is the name of the program and you're in good hands. It's a good basic program designed to get you strong rather quickly, and you'll get some hypertrophy from it as well. I'd follow what Rip says regarding technique and I'd suggest using Youtube as a reference for technique as Mark has some vids to look at as well.
I do think you should take a close look at how aggressively you are going into things. I've seen and known plenty of people who begin a training and nutrition regimen and they start out going balls to the wall. Then they burn out and regain weight and end up not making progress. And if I were to have told them not to start that way they would ALL have disregarded that advice thinking they were the special ones who could dive in aggressively and it wouldn't come back to bite them in the *kitten*.
This isn't to suggest that you can't do cardio and lifting, but pay close attention to your recovery and your rate of weight change. Realize that you are adopting habits that you'll be continuing for a long time, so think of these actions and habits in a long-term sense. You may want to start with 2 days/week lifting for example, or reduce cardio a bit.0 -
...I'd suggest using Youtube as a reference for technique as Mark has some vids to look at as well.
Yeah .. when I got my son started I was able to download a bunch of the videos and have them queued up on a computer in the workout area. I knew I wouldn't be the right person to demonstrate form so I made my son watch the vids many times while he was starting out. He progressed quickly, but after he was more comfortable working out in front of his friends and once the high school coaches got ahold of him, he stopped the program. Unfortunately that's when it seemed to become all about the 1 rep max and such but that's a story for different board...I do think you should take a close look at how aggressively you are going into things. I've seen and known plenty of people who begin a training and nutrition regimen and they start out going balls to the wall. Then they burn out and regain weight and end up not making progress. And if I were to have told them not to start that way they would ALL have disregarded that advice thinking they were the special ones who could dive in aggressively and it wouldn't come back to bite them in the *kitten*.
Probably seems more aggressive cause of the first post and thinking this is a new years resolution kind of thing. I've actually been headed this way for a few months now really.
Started out adjusting my sleeping patterns back around Halloween. Always been a late night person getting only 4-5 hours sleep per night, but since I knew I wanted to be exercising in the morning, I started making myself go to bed early and get up early. Now comfortably getting up at 5:30-6:00am with 8 hours sleep for the past few months. Wanted to make sure I could switch my hours up before trying to throw exercise into the mix.
I've run occasionally since before thanksgiving, but without a plan. Basically laced them up when I felt like it. Everything still works - so far so good.
Going to get my running analyzed and make sure I am fitted with a proper shoe next week. I have a good pair of Nike's that are comfortable, but I don't have many miles on them.
I have also lifted occasionally (bar only or a couple 10s loaded) for the past couple months too, but again without a plan. Nothing hurt (except for the initial DOMS after the first few times I squatted). Hoping once I am into it regularly I don't have to go through that again. Made going to the bathroom feel almost like another workout.....
Started logging my eats on Jan 1. Not changing the diet, just learning about what I was taking in normally and where I needed to adjust. Found out I definitely need to get more potassium, and will need to lower some of the fat and add some protein.This isn't to suggest that you can't do cardio and lifting, but pay close attention to your recovery and your rate of weight change. Realize that you are adopting habits that you'll be continuing for a long time, so think of these actions and habits in a long-term sense. You may want to start with 2 days/week lifting for example, or reduce cardio a bit.
Rubber - meet road. This is what I am currently working out in my head. I really like running so lifting will definitely scale back if my body tells me too. Actually, they way I plan on starting out with lifting will probably make it more of a circuit program than strength training. As my body gets used to the motions I will slowly start to increase the weights. Also, will probably buy an inexpensive exercise bike for short warm ups before workouts instead of running. Other than new shoes (maybe), and some scales (weight & food) it will probably be the most expensive thing I have to purchase to get started. Any opinions on the Bike that I found on Amazon?
http://www.amazon.com/Exerpeutic-Folding-Magnetic-Upright-Pulse/dp/B007595TKU
BTW... Started the running plan today. Was a long run 5.4mph for 60 minutes. It went well - feel great (but hungry since it was an am run). Will probably start the lift plan in a week or two once I read up a bit more on Starting Strength or one of the plans steve_mfp mentioned (Stronglifts).0 -
...I'd suggest using Youtube as a reference for technique as Mark has some vids to look at as well.
Yeah .. when I got my son started I was able to download a bunch of the videos and have them queued up on a computer in the workout area. I knew I wouldn't be the right person to demonstrate form so I made my son watch the vids many times while he was starting out. He progressed quickly, but after he was more comfortable working out in front of his friends and once the high school coaches got ahold of him, he stopped the program. Unfortunately that's when it seemed to become all about the 1 rep max and such but that's a story for different board...I do think you should take a close look at how aggressively you are going into things. I've seen and known plenty of people who begin a training and nutrition regimen and they start out going balls to the wall. Then they burn out and regain weight and end up not making progress. And if I were to have told them not to start that way they would ALL have disregarded that advice thinking they were the special ones who could dive in aggressively and it wouldn't come back to bite them in the *kitten*.
Probably seems more aggressive cause of the first post and thinking this is a new years resolution kind of thing. I've actually been headed this way for a few months now really.
Started out adjusting my sleeping patterns back around Halloween. Always been a late night person getting only 4-5 hours sleep per night, but since I knew I wanted to be exercising in the morning, I started making myself go to bed early and get up early. Now comfortably getting up at 5:30-6:00am with 8 hours sleep for the past few months. Wanted to make sure I could switch my hours up before trying to throw exercise into the mix.
I've run occasionally since before thanksgiving, but without a plan. Basically laced them up when I felt like it. Everything still works - so far so good.
Going to get my running analyzed and make sure I am fitted with a proper shoe next week. I have a good pair of Nike's that are comfortable, but I don't have many miles on them.
I have also lifted occasionally (bar only or a couple 10s loaded) for the past couple months too, but again without a plan. Nothing hurt (except for the initial DOMS after the first few times I squatted). Hoping once I am into it regularly I don't have to go through that again. Made going to the bathroom feel almost like another workout.....
Started logging my eats on Jan 1. Not changing the diet, just learning about what I was taking in normally and where I needed to adjust. Found out I definitely need to get more potassium, and will need to lower some of the fat and add some protein.This isn't to suggest that you can't do cardio and lifting, but pay close attention to your recovery and your rate of weight change. Realize that you are adopting habits that you'll be continuing for a long time, so think of these actions and habits in a long-term sense. You may want to start with 2 days/week lifting for example, or reduce cardio a bit.
Rubber - meet road. This is what I am currently working out in my head. I really like running so lifting will definitely scale back if my body tells me too. Actually, they way I plan on starting out with lifting will probably make it more of a circuit program than strength training. As my body gets used to the motions I will slowly start to increase the weights. Also, will probably buy an inexpensive exercise bike for short warm ups before workouts instead of running. Other than new shoes (maybe), and some scales (weight & food) it will probably be the most expensive thing I have to purchase to get started. Any opinions on the Bike that I found on Amazon?
http://www.amazon.com/Exerpeutic-Folding-Magnetic-Upright-Pulse/dp/B007595TKU
BTW... Started the running plan today. Was a long run 5.4mph for 60 minutes. It went well - feel great (but hungry since it was an am run). Will probably start the lift plan in a week or two once I read up a bit more on Starting Strength or one of the plans steve_mfp mentioned (Stronglifts).
I'll be the first to admit I don't know *kitten* about exercise bikes or any other kind of bike. So I can't help you there, unfortunately.
Good luck!0 -
I'll be the first to admit I don't know *kitten* about exercise bikes or any other kind of bike. So I can't help you there, unfortunately.
Yah me neither. Was just thinking about a bike to save wear on the legs. Just finished reading about and watching stronglifts vids on youtube and thinking now I will just stick with at most some dynamic stretching and plenty of warm up sets while starting out.0 -
I'll be the first to admit I don't know *kitten* about exercise bikes or any other kind of bike. So I can't help you there, unfortunately.
Good luck!
Stability balls....now that's another matter however.0 -
The bike is a great idea to get your leg muscles warmed up prior to lifting, but not add more pounding to running days.
As to a $130 exercise bike that also folds up - don't expect long lived.
If it was that price, and made of heavy materials and no convenience factors like folding, I'd actually expect it to last longer.
This is probably the worst time to look, but Play It again sports or other types of places dealing with used exercise equipment can be great after new years resoluters give up and sell their equipment they tried for like the 3rd or 4th year in a row to get going on.
And since that time of 2-3 months out can also coincide with folks moving in the Spring and realizing there is no need to move something they don't use, it's a great time to find gently or never used equipment that shows up - according to them. My mom has always done that, great deals to be had.
I'd suggest waiting if you can and getting a more decent one used.
By that time you may have decided to do more cardio, but purely running and pounding isn't great until the weights down, so the bike can turn in to that cardio workout, besides just warmup and cooldown.0 -
The bike is a great idea to get your leg muscles warmed up prior to lifting, but not add more pounding to running days.
As to a $130 exercise bike that also folds up - don't expect long lived.
If it was that price, and made of heavy materials and no convenience factors like folding, I'd actually expect it to last longer.
This is probably the worst time to look, but Play It again sports or other types of places dealing with used exercise equipment can be great after new years resoluters give up and sell their equipment they tried for like the 3rd or 4th year in a row to get going on.
And since that time of 2-3 months out can also coincide with folks moving in the Spring and realizing there is no need to move something they don't use, it's a great time to find gently or never used equipment that shows up - according to them. My mom has always done that, great deals to be had.
I'd suggest waiting if you can and getting a more decent one used.
By that time you may have decided to do more cardio, but purely running and pounding isn't great until the weights down, so the bike can turn in to that cardio workout, besides just warmup and cooldown.
Great Advice - didn't think about some of us resoluter's wanting to sell on the cheap. I will definitely keep an eye on Craigslist.
Since I am starting out at bar weight on all exercises, and doing several warm-up sets before the work sets, I am figuring that the warm-up sets will really be all the warm up I need initially.
Also , I have access to a pretty good Y just a couple miles away so I might end up doing an occasional lift day there for a change of scenery and can definitely take advantage of the bikes if it seems neccessary. Maybe even sub a Saturday long run for a long ride instead.
Stayed up a little later then normal reading up on stronglifts and watching the vids, but felt good even after the weekend long run so I started the resistance part of the plan this morning. I like how if you don't frack around, starting out you can finish in as little as 30 minutes.0 -
Since I am starting out at bar weight on all exercises, and doing several warm-up sets before the work sets, I am figuring that the warm-up sets will really be all the warm up I need initially.
I would highly recommend a bit of a warm up before doing your sets.
10-15 minutes on the treadmill/bike. Not a crazy pace, maybe 4mph on the treadmill. Enough to get the blood flowing, body warm, a bit of a sweat.
Then one of the routines i've been doing is DeFranco's Agile 8 (you'll need a foam roller too).
http://www.t-nation.com/training/defranco-agile-8
It works amazing well. I do it daily, even on non-lifts day.
I also do some other warm-up exercises and targeted stretches for problem areas.
My warm-up routine is usually 30 minutes, lifting is 30-45. I used to not warm-up as much...that was a mistake.0