Question on Calories
MissGamerGirl
Posts: 187 Member
When I hear people talk of food intake and lifting heavy weights, I hear a resounding "EATEATEAT!!!" But I'm confused on where the limit is?
Lets take today for example. Normally I would have a much better breakfast than a protein bar but I was running behind this morning. I had shrimp ebi sushi with soy sauce and wasabi for lunch and an earl grey tea latte from work (aka: Starbucks) to calm my throat down from a sudden onset of soreness that began out of the blue last night. Between breakfast and lunch, I didn't even break 1000 calories and I was behind on protein.
Because I felt like hell after work (sore throat still persisting), I crawled in bed and rested for awhile. Didn't feel like cooking for the life of me. Hubby orders a small GF pizza for me to compensate. Details are broken down to the ingredient in my diary.
PRO: That pizza made up for my low amount of protein I had for the day.
CON: I went over in carbs, calories, and fats (though I am told it is always okay to go over w/ fat and protein?)
So, looking at the numbers - was today a bad day in eating? Why is it bad? Why is it good? I need to know for future reference whether ordering a pizza should be a more cautious decision or not.
I also had a burger, fries and coke last night. It was supposed to be a "cheat" meal, then this pizza came around right behind it.
Normally I am a bit more rigid on my eating.
I just need to know what is too rigid and what is too lax.
My stats: I'm 23 years old, 5'6, 140 lbs. BMR is 1464. Maintenance is 2270. How much to eat above or below that is what I'm confused on. I hear many times to ignore calories and just focus on your macro percentages (which I have set at 40/30/30). But if I go over those percentages like I did today...then what? Still ignore calories?
My goals: to lose fat, gain strength/muscle. I am shooting for a long and lean appearance. My calories right now are set on 2000, which is my goal for days I don't lift (didn't lift today, but I did yesterday...still hurting too!) and I expect to eat at least 200 more on the days I do lift, if not a little more.
Thoughts? Sorry, I always tend to write novels as posts.
Lets take today for example. Normally I would have a much better breakfast than a protein bar but I was running behind this morning. I had shrimp ebi sushi with soy sauce and wasabi for lunch and an earl grey tea latte from work (aka: Starbucks) to calm my throat down from a sudden onset of soreness that began out of the blue last night. Between breakfast and lunch, I didn't even break 1000 calories and I was behind on protein.
Because I felt like hell after work (sore throat still persisting), I crawled in bed and rested for awhile. Didn't feel like cooking for the life of me. Hubby orders a small GF pizza for me to compensate. Details are broken down to the ingredient in my diary.
PRO: That pizza made up for my low amount of protein I had for the day.
CON: I went over in carbs, calories, and fats (though I am told it is always okay to go over w/ fat and protein?)
So, looking at the numbers - was today a bad day in eating? Why is it bad? Why is it good? I need to know for future reference whether ordering a pizza should be a more cautious decision or not.
I also had a burger, fries and coke last night. It was supposed to be a "cheat" meal, then this pizza came around right behind it.
Normally I am a bit more rigid on my eating.I just need to know what is too rigid and what is too lax.
My stats: I'm 23 years old, 5'6, 140 lbs. BMR is 1464. Maintenance is 2270. How much to eat above or below that is what I'm confused on. I hear many times to ignore calories and just focus on your macro percentages (which I have set at 40/30/30). But if I go over those percentages like I did today...then what? Still ignore calories?
My goals: to lose fat, gain strength/muscle. I am shooting for a long and lean appearance. My calories right now are set on 2000, which is my goal for days I don't lift (didn't lift today, but I did yesterday...still hurting too!) and I expect to eat at least 200 more on the days I do lift, if not a little more.
Thoughts? Sorry, I always tend to write novels as posts.
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Replies
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Hi.
I wish I could be of some assistance with this, but it took me over a year to finally figure out my own sweet spot. I would like to recommend a group on here called: "eat, train, progress". The moderators on there have helped a few people with finding the proper amount to eat on lift days and off days. Good luck!
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My stats: I'm 23 years old, 5'6, 140 lbs. BMR is 1464. Maintenance is 2270. How much to eat above or below that is what I'm confused on. I hear many times to ignore calories and just focus on your macro percentages (which I have set at 40/30/30). But if I go over those percentages like I did today...then what? Still ignore calories?
My goals: to lose fat, gain strength/muscle. I am shooting for a long and lean appearance. My calories right now are set on 2000, which is my goal for days I don't lift (didn't lift today, but I did yesterday...still hurting too!) and I expect to eat at least 200 more on the days I do lift, if not a little more.
Thoughts? Sorry, I always tend to write novels as posts.
You went way over on carbs and that's the bad part. Going over on anything is bad though because you're not going to be losing fat if that's your goal. Protein can turn into fat just like carbs. You aren't ignoring calories... you are setting your macros to meet your calories and filling in the macros.0 -
BTW, why do you have carbs as your 40%? For fat loss, it should be 40% protein, 30% fat, 30% carbs.0
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My stats: I'm 23 years old, 5'6, 140 lbs. BMR is 1464. Maintenance is 2270. How much to eat above or below that is what I'm confused on. I hear many times to ignore calories and just focus on your macro percentages (which I have set at 40/30/30). But if I go over those percentages like I did today...then what? Still ignore calories?
My goals: to lose fat, gain strength/muscle. I am shooting for a long and lean appearance. My calories right now are set on 2000, which is my goal for days I don't lift (didn't lift today, but I did yesterday...still hurting too!) and I expect to eat at least 200 more on the days I do lift, if not a little more.
Thoughts? Sorry, I always tend to write novels as posts.
You went way over on carbs and that's the bad part. Going over on anything is bad though because you're not going to be losing fat if that's your goal. Protein can turn into fat just like carbs. You aren't ignoring calories... you are setting your macros to meet your calories and filling in the macros.
Calorie in < calories out for fat loss. Going over in carbs is not "bad" and won't make you "gain". You may have a spike in weight due to water (I usually do), but you're not going to gain fat. There is nothing wrong with a 40c/30p/30f macro split.
OP: Eat less than your TDEE which I think you noted is 2200. Set a reasonable/maintainable deficit from your TDEE to lose. Take a diet break when you need it. Play around with your macro setting to find what works best for your lifestyle. One "bad" day of eating pizza and a burger is not going to set you back. Eat the foods that satisfy you and fit into your calorie and/or macro goals.
If you want more specifics, check out the Eat, Train, Progress thread like another poster mentioned. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/10118-eat-train-progress You give them your information and they can help you work out a calorie goal to help you achieve your goals.0 -
Cute, but wrong. She went over calories and went over in carbs. She will gain, and it will be fat.0
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Oooohhhhh. My mistake. I forgot that going over in carbs = insta-fat. It was ONE day of being over in calories and carbs. She's not going to gain fat.0
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Cute, but wrong. She went over calories and went over in carbs. She will gain, and it will be fat.
No just stop. That is wrong information all around.0 -
She went over in calories. It's going to turn into fat, no matter what. Our bodies are pretty efficient at doing things quickly, so yes... insta-fat is a great way of describing it.0
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It takes approximately 3500 surplus calories to gain a pound of fat. I hardly think that is what happened.
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Cute, but wrong. She went over calories and went over in carbs. She will gain, and it will be fat.
There are many differing opinions on the matter of macros, of which, your's is only one, and is not the "only" answer. She will not have to worry about a gain if it is a one time meal over the course of eating below maintenance. If a person continually eats over TDEE, then yes, they will gain, a portion will be muscle if training properly while a portion will be fat. This is how a "bulk" works. Simply going over on carbs, if that doesn't lead to an overall calorie intake above TDEE will not cause a massive increase in fat. She will not gain a full pound of fat over night and some of the gain could be in muscle mass. In the long term this will be so obscured by other data points that the argument of "insta-fat" from one day will be moot and inconsequential.
On the matter of macro break down, it is up to personal preference. As CC stated, calories in vs calories out is the ultimate equation in fat loss. A breakdown of 40c/30f/30p will not prevent a person from losing fat. If that were the case, I'd be up the fat loss creek without a paddle. Finding a breakdown that will allow you to maintain a diet you can live with while eating at a deficit is key. 30/30/40p works for you, but again, it isn't the one size fits all breakdown.
OP: One meal will not ruin things forever. One thing I would like to mention is that at this point in time, your goals are a little conflicted. Losing fat WHILE gaining muscle is a very rare thing. That is why you see so many people talk about a "bulk" or "cut" cycle. To effectively gain muscle, you need to eat moderately above your TDEE. The smaller the overage, the slower the muscle gain, but the less fat you will potentially gain as well. They always come and go together. On the other end, if you want to lose fat, you will eat at a moderate deficit from TDEE. Strength training will help prevent muscle loss and keeping the deficit to 5-10% of TDEE will help you stay fueled for your lifting so you can continue making strength gains.
Please, please, please, visit the Eat, Train, Progress thread. There is a LOT valuable advice in that group and less conflicting advice.0 -
I find it weird that you guys are thinking in pounds and in ruining things long term. Our system is in a constant process of creating energy and using energy. What she did was create a surplus of energy in her body. I'm not sugar coating it and saying it's just water, because it's not. We don't overeat and just have "water" in us. Please. I didn't say she gained any pound of fat. I said she gained fat.0
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OP: check out this thread: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/833026-important-posts-to-read
It gives you lots of other threads to read through concerning calorie intake, how to set your macros, etc.0 -
OP: check out this thread: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/833026-important-posts-to-read
It gives you lots of other threads to read through concerning calorie intake, how to set your macros, etc.
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I find it weird that you guys are thinking in pounds and in ruining things long term. Our system is in a constant process of creating energy and using energy. What she did was create a surplus of energy in her body. I'm not sugar coating it and saying it's just water, because it's not. We don't overeat and just have "water" in us. Please. I didn't say she gained any pound of fat. I said she gained fat.
I really don't even know how to respond...0 -
I find it weird that you guys are thinking in pounds and in ruining things long term. Our system is in a constant process of creating energy and using energy. What she did was create a surplus of energy in her body. I'm not sugar coating it and saying it's just water, because it's not. We don't overeat and just have "water" in us. Please. I didn't say she gained any pound of fat. I said she gained fat.
I will concede to many of your points. Yes, she ate over and has a surplus of energy. That surplus will be applied to energy storing fat. Correct, she will not gain a pound of fat. However, in the surplus energy equation is also the addition of muscle mass. Eating over is the only way a person will gain any substantial amount of muscle. So let me help to clarify your response:
The surplus in calories for the day will most likely be used in part to repair/build muscle mass and add to the current energy supplies in the form of fat. The amount of both for the day will be limited in nature due to the fact that the calorie surplus was minimal.
Many of us here think in the long term because we have been at it long term and understand and appreciate the fact that in the long run, eating over calories one day will not be detrimental to our overall goals. Minute gains from day to day will eventually be lost in the noise of overall trends.
Neither side is inherently "wrong" on this matter, but presenting the message in a clear and non-confrontational way will help to bridge the gap and allow for a more productive dialog.0 -
On the matter of macro break down, it is up to personal preference. As CC stated, calories in vs calories out is the ultimate equation in fat loss. A breakdown of 40c/30f/30p will not prevent a person from losing fat. If that were the case, I'd be up the fat loss creek without a paddle. Finding a breakdown that will allow you to maintain a diet you can live with while eating at a deficit is key. 30/30/40p works for you, but again, it isn't the one size fits all breakdown.
Great post - I really don't have too much to add.
40C/30P/30F is a good starting point for macros IMO which won't make you fat (LOL), as already stated, eating more calories then your body needs will. As far as calorie intake, I take these "internet" counters with a grain of salt. I personally can eat many more calories than my "estimated" TDEE and not gain a pound, where the person next to me will. It took me some time playing with my calorie count to find what my real TDEE is and that's the advice I'd give to anyone - experiment. That said, I never really played with my macros until a couple of months ago when I decided to starting cutting, in which I still keep my carbs at 40% (40C/35P/25F vs 40C/30C/30F). I'm not a fan of cutting my muscle's main fuel source (aka carbs).
Also, eat the same amount of calories EVERY DAY. The eating less calories on days you don't lift myth is bad idea. Why would you cut calories when your body needs them for muscle recovery?0 -
Neither side is inherently "wrong" on this matter, but presenting the message in a clear and non-confrontational way will help to bridge the gap and allow for a more productive dialog.
This.
ETA- This is why I LOVE my BodyMedia FIT. :bigsmile:0 -
Neither side is inherently "wrong" on this matter, but presenting the message in a clear and non-confrontational way will help to bridge the gap and allow for a more productive dialog.
This.
ETA- This is why I LOVE my BodyMedia FIT. :bigsmile:
me too! Just got it 2 weeks ago but I already know my TDEE is a little higher than any online calculator gave me. Loving me some more foods!0 -
BTW, why do you have carbs as your 40%? For fat loss, it should be 40% protein, 30% fat, 30% carbs.
THANK YOU! I needed to know this too!0 -
BTW, why do you have carbs as your 40%? For fat loss, it should be 40% protein, 30% fat, 30% carbs.
THANK YOU! I needed to know this too!
I have a sports nutritionist who set my goals, and he keeps me accountable. These are the macro ratios I use and have seen incredible results (for me) with because my goal is to 1) keep muscle 2) increase my lifts while losing weight 3) keep my weight consistently dropping without major fluctuations. When I eat high protein, my weight is incredibly consistent, to the decimal. When I go over in my carbs and my ratio is out of whack for the day (carbs equal to my protein), my weight fluctuates ALL over the map. It doesn't help me to see progress, I in fact make zero progress or lose progress, nor does it make me feel good seeing that, and my mood gets down about what I'm doing.
Oh, and if you need ANY proof of this, here is my weight log during my time of doing this. You will see the first day from when I started setting the macros, I went from 137 to 134. That was how I was every day when I used to eat primarily carbs, fluctuating constantly. Any bumps along this chart that you see, it is typically because I ate a higher carb meal towards dinner. Keep in mind that during this time, I also ate everything I wanted. I ate pizza, burgers, cheese, whatever.
Also, there was a time period of 2 months where I logged 1400 calories, just as I eat now... but primarily eating carbs. I did not gain, but did not lose a single pound. 1400 is not my maintenance weight and is very easy to eat when mainly eating carbs. When eating protein, it's a different story. I shovel foodz into muh face all day.
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BTW, why do you have carbs as your 40%? For fat loss, it should be 40% protein, 30% fat, 30% carbs.
THANK YOU! I needed to know this too!
It's all a matter of personal preference. People have seen positive results with all different kinds of macro breakdowns.0 -
Thank you for all of the replies! I added Eat. Train. Progress. to my groups and read through some of the threads, especially on the calories and macros. I used their macro calculations (except for their protein calculation because I don't know my BF%, thus not knowing my LBM. Instead I used NROLFW's advice and multiplied 2 by my weight in kgs) which make my percentages quite a bit off from what is normally recommended to me by others. Based on their equations and rounding (either up or down, depending), I got a macro split of 55C/25P/20F. I like my set-up better. Note: Until today I havn't weighed myself for the last week or more due to my period, but I'm now at 137 and not 140. I used 137 lbs in my calculations.
So to clear up my goals: I guess I'm really just more concerned with losing fat at the moment. Is there a preference or recommendation for those just starting lifting to focus on bulking or cutting first? My first instinct is to get rid of the fat, so I would be eating at a deficit. From what I understand, it seems that in order to lose fat AND gain muscle, you need to eat at maintenance, but that this would be a very slow process and isn't ideal because of that. Is this right? I don't mind being patient but I also don't want slow-as-molasses progress either.
Since my TDEE is 2250 and 10% off of that is 2025, my set-up of 2000 calories appears appropriate for fat loss.
I find it challenging to remain in my calorie goal while filling up my macros. To get the protein I need, I end up eating more, thus increasing calories. It's a tough balancing act.
Can you still make gains while in a cut, or no? I thought that even by losing fat, you could still gain strength and bump your weights up. That is ideally what I would like to do. I would like to be able to lift more than just the bar. But again, I want progress at a reasonable increase. 0 -
If losing fat is your primary goal, you have to accept that your gains will be slower (not zero, because some of your excess weight can be turned into fuel for growing muscles). Intake (quantity, not macro breakdown) is key for 'losing weight' but lifting weights will mean that more of that weight loss comes from fat rather than muscle.
I found weighing daily became a bit obsessive and unhelpful as weight can fluctuate for all sorts of reasons (hydration, hormones etc) on a daily basis. Once a week at the same time in the same conditions (nekked first thing on a Saturday morning for me!) will give you a trend. But do what works for you and your mental health!0 -
I'm glad you were able to find a starting point for your macros. One way I try to keep around goal, but keep my protein goal in check is to plan around the protein. If I know I can hit that, I can fill in the rest of the calories with carbs or fat and keep under the calories.
The typical goal is to lean down first and then add lean mass once you are at an appropriate BF%. The Eat, Train, Progress once had a BF% estimation thread and they are pretty good at giving an visual estimate.
You can still make strength gains on a deficit and since you are just starting out, much of the initial progress will be teaching the body how to fire the right nerves to lift and making those connections. You will get stronger by building those connections. Gains will start to slow down eventually, but that is typical when you reach heavier weights anyway. Busting through stalls can be easier when well fed, but isn't impossible during a cut.
A 10% cut isn't a huge cut and should give you a good balance. Try it for a month and see what your measurements do. Adjust the calories up or down based on your actual results since TDEE calculations are just estimates.0 -
Since my TDEE is 2250 and 10% off of that is 2025, my set-up of 2000 calories appears appropriate for fat loss.
I find it challenging to remain in my calorie goal while filling up my macros. To get the protein I need, I end up eating more, thus increasing calories. It's a tough balancing act.
Can you still make gains while in a cut, or no? I thought that even by losing fat, you could still gain strength and bump your weights up. That is ideally what I would like to do. I would like to be able to lift more than just the bar. But again, I want progress at a reasonable increase.
If you increase your protein intake, you will be MORE full while still staying under your calories for the day. For instance, chicken breast:
Chicken Breast (Boneless, Skinless) , 1 ounces 36c 7p 1f 0c 0
So if you eat 6 ounces of chicken breast that's only 216 calories, but 42g of protein! That is EXTREMELY filling, you will be shoveling your face with food and wanting to quit, I promise.
Everybody underestimates how satiating protein is until they actually try a high protein diet.
And yes you can make gains during a cut. I'm increasing my lifts every day while cutting 10 pounds.0 -
If losing fat is your primary goal, you have to accept that your gains will be slower (not zero, because some of your excess weight can be turned into fuel for growing muscles). Intake (quantity, not macro breakdown) is key for 'losing weight' but lifting weights will mean that more of that weight loss comes from fat rather than muscle.
I found weighing daily became a bit obsessive and unhelpful as weight can fluctuate for all sorts of reasons (hydration, hormones etc) on a daily basis. Once a week at the same time in the same conditions (nekked first thing on a Saturday morning for me!) will give you a trend. But do what works for you and your mental health!
Oh of course, I never weigh daily. Usually once a week but I just don't even bother the week of my period, so sometimes I just weigh every two weeks due to that. 0 -
I'm glad you were able to find a starting point for your macros. One way I try to keep around goal, but keep my protein goal in check is to plan around the protein. If I know I can hit that, I can fill in the rest of the calories with carbs or fat and keep under the calories.
The typical goal is to lean down first and then add lean mass once you are at an appropriate BF%. The Eat, Train, Progress once had a BF% estimation thread and they are pretty good at giving an visual estimate.
You can still make strength gains on a deficit and since you are just starting out, much of the initial progress will be teaching the body how to fire the right nerves to lift and making those connections. You will get stronger by building those connections. Gains will start to slow down eventually, but that is typical when you reach heavier weights anyway. Busting through stalls can be easier when well fed, but isn't impossible during a cut.
A 10% cut isn't a huge cut and should give you a good balance. Try it for a month and see what your measurements do. Adjust the calories up or down based on your actual results since TDEE calculations are just estimates.
This is a good idea! I will try this, thank you. I'm also in the process of getting myself into the habit of tracking my days calories the night before so I can plan my macros accordingly. 0 -
If you increase your protein intake, you will be MORE full while still staying under your calories for the day. For instance, chicken breast:
Chicken Breast (Boneless, Skinless) , 1 ounces 36c 7p 1f 0c 0
So if you eat 6 ounces of chicken breast that's only 216 calories, but 42g of protein! That is EXTREMELY filling, you will be shoveling your face with food and wanting to quit, I promise.
Everybody underestimates how satiating protein is until they actually try a high protein diet.
And yes you can make gains during a cut. I'm increasing my lifts every day while cutting 10 pounds.
I will say that I've noticed that since eating more protein, I havn't had hardly any food cravings like for sweets and things. I might consider shifting my carb ratio but I feel that 30C would be a little difficult for me to sustain w/o going over.0 -
It's only hard if you don't try. I'll be honest just from looking at your diary - you don't really seem to stress protein intake. Most everything you eat looks pretty carb heavy with just some protein thrown in. If you concentrated on making even a little bit of shift from your carbs to protein, I think you'd achieve what you're after more easily. Right now you have your goals set, but you often go over on carbs and under on protein anyway so you're not even eating the ratio you set - it's even more carb and less protein. Really try to meet your goals you have set now.0
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It's only hard if you don't try. I'll be honest just from looking at your diary - you don't really seem to stress protein intake. Most everything you eat looks pretty carb heavy with just some protein thrown in. If you concentrated on making even a little bit of shift from your carbs to protein, I think you'd achieve what you're after more easily. Right now you have your goals set, but you often go over on carbs and under on protein anyway so you're not even eating the ratio you set - it's even more carb and less protein. Really try to meet your goals you have set now.
Interesting, since many of my new MFP weightlifting friends with kickass bodies have congratulated me on my eating progress so far.
True, my carbs do tend to go over, especially on the days I ate pizza and a burger. I'm, what, two weeks into this new lifestyle change requiring me to adjust my eating and to lift? Last week was the first time I even touched a barbell. I've never previously calculated macros in my life. Sorry that I havn't achieved perfection right out of the gate with my macros.
Also, I'm not following the 1g of protein per bodyweight idea. I'm doing 2g of protein per kg as recommended by NROLFW. That doesn't even reach 140g of protein.
You make it sound like I'm not touching protein at all. The lowest days I have since starting to focus on macros and lifting (which is not when I started logging) are 105g, but others are 125g, and even up to 142g - over 1g per lb of bodyweight. I am eating greek yogurt, ricotta cheese, protein bars, protein shakes, milk, meat, egg whites...I know what protein is and I know how to get it into my diet, thanks.0
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