I used to drink. A lot. I used to "need" it just to socialize. Now I accept that I'm not a social person and I've stopped doing that.

Are you drinking to get drunk or do you just have a few and call it an evening? Over-indulgence isn't healthy, for anyone, Paleo or not. Not being willing to go without is a bad sign as well. Have you ever taken an extended break from it? As in not committing to quit forever, but just choosing to eliminate it for six months and see what happens? I would highly recommend it.

I like an occasional glass of red wine. I am all out right now and live in a community where alcohol is not available locally and is restricted. It's super expensive to get and jumping through the hoops and getting permission just rubs me the wrong way, so mostly I just live without. I have a friend who brings over vodka and I look forward to it because we don't do it often, but boy do I pay for it no matter how little I have..... When I do drink vodka I crave carbs for days after and it can take me a week to get on track so obviously it's not something I want to do more than once every two months. I've even learned to go to bed when I've had enough. But no matter how little I have I still wake up sick (if it's spirits). If I stick to wine, once I rehydrate I'm usually feeling not too bad.

Regardless of over-indulgence or not, it definitely slows my weight loss and negatively impacts my health.

I think a truly healthy Paleo lifestyle does not include alcohol. It should be a very occasional treat and handled responsibly. Waking up sick is a message in neon lights- I'm thinking I need to give up spirits completely because they kick my butt and it doesn't make sense to consume something that makes me so sick.

I enjoy a good glass of wine or two as well. Almost always red wine. I have what is called "Wine Wednesday"...my little hump day reward. I'll have a glass of wine on Wednesday night, maybe one or two on the weekend as well. I also occasionally have a margarita. I've been experimenting with what I can mix tequila with that is not horrible. I know the premade mixes are just full of sugar, but that's what I use and it's meant as a treat. And of course the ones in restaurants are most ikely worse.

I know I can do without it, because I have before, but I enjoy it. I don't see any reason to cut it out entirely. It doesn't derail me. I think as long as you're not overdoing it, it's fine.

I drink red wine every night. I know Mark Sisson says it's ok. But lately I feel it's just a bad habit. I recently joined You Booze, You Snooze.
I'm not willing to completely give up wine or Martinis. Just thinking about imbibing on Saturday night. And going from there.

There's no justifying that alcohol is Paleo.

Have to disagree with you, Akima - or at least qualify it.

Fermented fruit juice has been around for as long as there has been fruit juice ready to 'go bad'. I've often seen birds kicking up their heels after eating waaay overripe berries. So, by extension you can say that wine is at least marginally paleo - one might quibble over the amount of processing necessary to produce 1000 cases of a decent pinotage, but one could also quibble over the production involved to get that coconut milk from plantation to can.

I will totally agree with you, however that distillables (hard liquors) are not paleo - because it is not a whole food, and neither are brewables (beers and ales).

That being said, I have a decent wine cellar, I do enjoy the occasional 12 year old scotch, and go to our local brewfest each year. The wine is paleo enough to be included in the 'moderate' category (like sweet potatoes); the others fall into the 'indulgence' category of Sisson's 80/20 rule.

Of course - everyone else's mileage may vary.

^Totally agree. However, I take issue with justifying alcohol just because one likes it, especially if it does cause problems or one over-indulges frequently. And I have to wonder if there are any wines that resemble the natural fermented fruits that our ancestors would have gotten into, and I doubt it happened very often. Some people would have never had access to wine; poor past Inuit people. But they did eat fermented meat, fat, organs. Yum.

It would be interesting to make one's own wine... it's on my wish list of things to do some day. I LOVE red wine but I'd love it even more if I knew it was of the best quality.

I like hard cider, personally. I think if you're gunna drink try to opt for something gluten-free. Personally it definitely messes with my weight loss. But I'm not going to rule something out completely ever. It's more of just understanding how it interacts with your system. It might set you back from your goals, but maybe sometimes that's worth it. If it's an every weekend kind of thing, then you sort of have to think is it worth it? If it is, enjoy! If not, life can be good without it

Up until last year just before I started this I was a home brewer, ales mostly and I have set it all aside due to wanting to get on track. My family stares at me in wonder most of the time because I still read books and journals on beer making but it doesn't even tempt me at this point. I think if I get back into brewing it would be strictly hard apple cider and I would only indulge in small amounts unlike before. I read this article a while back she really knows her stuff

http://paleomovement.com/alcohol-the-paleo-exemption/

If you told me two years ago that I would give up drinking I would have laughed in your face. I never really drank during the week but every weekend I would get on it. Binge drinking where I'm from is the norm. I use to think how can anyone have any fun without a drink...

Fastfoward... on the 9th of jan 2013 after going primal I decided to limit my drinking. After that I got drunk once. Otherwise my drinking was maybe a glass or two max once a month. Then I decided that I actually don''t need to drink, so the last time I had alcohol was in October.

When I did drink I made really bad food choices (I managed to drunkenly convinced myself once that large chicken nuggets, large fries and a cheese burger minus the bun "was totally primal") and instead of a hang over for one day I'm sick for a week. Plus I put so much time, effort and money into eating healthy it seems stupid to undo it all with alcohol. Alcohol is not good for my waist line, wallet or health.

Socially it wasn't as big of a deal as I thought it would be, my binge drinking friends were actually really impressed and supportive.

I take issue with justifying alcohol just because one likes it

Eh. 'Because I like it' is as good a reason to ingest something as anything else. If I know the plusses and minuses (alcohol IS actually a poison, etc.) and choose to indulge anyway - my choice. If I try to call it 'paleo' in an attempt to give it some legitimacy, then you're right - which is why I tried to qualify your statement. Fermented grape juice (or any fruit - I've got a couple of killer bottles of nectarine wine in the cellar) is broadly paleo. Distilled and brewed liquors are manufactured foods, OTOH. I choose to have the occasional crust of bread, knowing the issues; I also choose to have the occasional flagon of mead.

especially if it does cause problems or one over-indulges frequently.

But see, that is not the problem of the product - that's the problem of the consumer. Wine is still moderately paleo whether you are a teetotaler or drunkard.

And I have to wonder if there are any wines that resemble the natural fermented fruits that our ancestors would have gotten into

"I crushed the fruit, and squeezed the liquid from the pulp. I then worked the liquid to provide a quality end-result."

Describes wine. But it also describes coconut milk - the extract from the grated meat of a coconut, and a staple of the paleo movement. Fermented fruit would only be mildly alcoholic - less than beer. But we humans have always figured out how to synthesize a natural process.

But it's moot. Alcohol is a poison - it's not paleo. So is salt in sufficient doses (buh bye, bacon), alkaloids (buh bye, tomatoes) and many other foods. You learn the facts and make the choices - we're all gonna die of something. No one gets out of here alive.

It would be interesting to make one's own wine... it's on my wish list of things to do some day. I LOVE red wine but I'd love it even more if I knew it was of the best quality.

I homebrewed beer back in the day; making your own is a treat not to be missed. I too will do wine one day.

Given your locale, I like to try and make eiswein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_wine)!

We're on the same side. Justifying something that is harmful or being used irresponsibly is a fail. If it's hurting the body, or we over-indulge it's a problem. Enjoying something is certainly a good reason to have it, moderately. But we must ask what do we like about alcohol? If it's an occasional glass of something, I get it. But if it's to get buzzed, socialize, overcome shyness/anxiety, self-medicate and it affects health, stalls weight loss, etc it may be a problem. We can choose to ignore the problem, but pretending there is no issue and that alcohol is just a harmless treat is fooling ourselves. Some of us anyway.

<Coming from someone who has used alcohol in every way imaginable. I'm quickly heading toward very occasional, responsible use but it still mucks up my health and slows my weight loss. It may not be handled the same way as carbs in my body but it creates intense carb cravings for days. That does not help me on my health journey, but I still choose to do it occasionally.

I still want homemade red wine. Yum. Unfortunately, no grapes, or much else, grows where I live. Crowberries would suck for wine- zero sugar and they cause constipation. lol

I drink on weekends, it keeps me sane. Vodka and Diet Sunkist Lemonade = 0 carbs. Although wine is pretty low cal also. Could you be eating more than you think once you drink?

I drink on weekends, it keeps me sane. Vodka and Diet Sunkist Lemonade = 0 carbs. Although wine is pretty low cal also. Could you be eating more than you think once you drink?

Need alcohol to "keep sane"? And with artificial sweeteners. Hmmm.....

I get it because I've been there, done that when I was young and unhealthy, mentally and physically... but it doesn't fit as part of a healthy Primal/Paleo lifestyle.

Ever tried vodka and club soda with a piece of lemon/lime or dash of fruit juice? I can't even get club soda where I live so it's just water and lemon or lime wedge.