Just had RMR tested - advice?

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jleye27
jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
... because the dietitian didn't really provide any advice except to continue what I was doing.

I'm female, 5'10", 179, and my RMR was 1100. That seems excessively low. The dietitan did mention that seemed like a low number, but didn't suggest eating more.

I started the "journey" in August 2012 and by May 2013, had lost 62 pounds (2 more than my goal). Usually eating between 1300-1500 calories per day, net. I've stayed within 5-6 pounds of my goal weight since then, but am hungry all the time and can't seem to get back down to my goal weight. I work out/play sports/strength train about 6 hours/week. I recently got a Polar HRM and could not believe how much LOWER my calories burned were than those estimated on MFP. Side effect of the lower RMR?

I took my TDEE and TDEE-15% from the scooby calc (without listing my activity - so I would eat it back on MFP) and they seem like they wouldn't be scary to do. I am not THAT concerned about the number on the scale, but more about my low RMR and being hungry most of the time and seeing what "normal" people the same size as me are able to eat to maintain - more worried about doing long-term damage or having to maintain at a unreasonable level.

One thought after entering my "new" numbers into MFP - holy crap, that is a lot of protein.

Am I a good candidate for EM2WL? From reading around, it seems to me like I am, but curious about others' experience - especially taller women. I figured I would try it for a few weeks and see what happens.
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  • jleye27
    jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
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    Just read through a lot of the sticky notes and changed my goals to be TDEE-10%, with activity (self-calculated) included... 1900 calories, every day. It can't be worse than trying to eat 1300 calories/day, right? I thought my energy wasn't affected, but it takes me longer to recover after workouts, so I think I definitely need this.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Yes, that does sound like a really low RMR, because BMR would be even lower.
    But that's compared to expected based on age, weight, height.

    But based on bodyfat % where you may have burned off decent amount of muscle mass through dieting, it may be sadly right on.

    That does mean a TDEE based on age, weight, height, as you've probably done - is inflated.

    If your BMR really is lower because of higher BF%, you eating more than really needed will never correct for that, until you slowly gain muscle back. And eating in surplus (which you would be) and lifting weights hard, could give you maybe a lb every 6-8 weeks.

    So you might want to confirm you are starting your math with best estimate of BMR, potential BMR, not a suppressed RMR either, based on good estimate of BF%.
    Then get TDEE from that and work your way up to potential TDEE from current eating levels.

    Spreadsheet on my profile page can help with all that. Stick on the Simple Setup tab.
    There is a field to enter your tested RMR, but it'll probably warn you it's 5% below potential so don't use it - so don't.
    No need chasing a suppressed metabolism in to the ground more.

    And yes, this method can greatly improve this.

    And you likely have no idea on your energy level, unless you had something to compare it to.

    And you'll need more than a few weeks, you'll need minimum month, but likely 3 months to see any improvement to RMR. You'll likely gain some needed water weight first off.
    Hence advice to increase slowly to best estimated TDEE.
  • jleye27
    jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
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    heybales - thank you for your input. I checked out your spreadsheet, and it estimated my TDEE and TDEG a little bit higher than the scooby site. I work out regularly - play hockey 2-3 times/week, HIIT/interval style training (cardio/strength combos) 3 hours a week, and lifting 1 hour. I don't think I've lost TOO much muscle, although definitely some. I'm warming up to the idea of including the activity multiplier instead of logging my exercise cals using my HRM (it's a mental thing,. I admit). I think I am going to do the reset - would I still slowly increase to my estimated TDEE or jump there right away? Looking at the calories I've consumed the last 4 weeks, 1900 is about 200/day jump and my TDEE is around 2400-2500 including activity.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    I guess that's good the TDEE is higher estimate, because that means bigger deficit at same % off.

    I'd be curious if the Katch BMR is lower or higher than the Mifflin BMR scooby is using.

    Because I'm betting Katch is lower, which means with a higher TDEE estimate, you really had the wrong level of 5 selected.

    If you have a way to put more time in to the lifting, then skip the HIIT.

    HIIT, even if done properly which I've found usually isn't, mimics the effects of a lifting workout for a sport specific activity for those that don't want to lift. All out anaerobic effort, with rest, repeat. Sound familiar.
    If you can do the lifting, skip the HIIT, and use the time there. You'll show better benefit from it.
    Most start doing HIIT because they read it burns more fat than steady-state cardio during the repair, despite less calories burned during the workout. Sure, because it's getting closer to what lifting does.

    Your hockey is your cardio.
    If you can make some of the 3 hrs weekly be lifting, without hurting your hockey play, or rather the intense hockey play ruining your recovery from a food lifting routine, I'd suggest fitting more in.
    Then again, there may not be a pretty way around the hockey.

    And yes, slowly increase calories, you aren't that bad if total intake was really around 1700. Might go by 100's for 2 weeks, then by 200's after that.

    Oh, as you examine your workout and play routine, think about the following fact.
    Exercise if done right tears the body down.
    Rest for recovery and repair builds it back up, and stronger if diet allows. But recovery will be impaired in a deficit compared to none.

    Confirm you have rest in your routine, or else the exercise just becomes one additional stress on the body. Diet already is, lack of sleep, life, ect can all be too. Stress will fight against fat/weight loss.
    Lose the stress.
  • jleye27
    jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
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    thanks! I've been doing HIIT for a while - class at the gym, so I'll wager the trainer does it right, and yes, that sounds familiar. All out cardio for 30 secs-1 minute, rest, alternate with strength, repeat... a lot. I can easily replace one of the classes with lifting, so I will do that. I can tell my recoveries have definitely impaired by the deficit - I expect soreness, but not the kind I've been feeling for the last 2 months or so (and unable to get rid of). I knew things weren't right when I heard my RMR, and re-looked at what I've been doing over the past 16 months (for the past year, averaging below my BMR - and even lower before that). I'm really looking forward to eating more calories and having a long-term, healthy, sustainable plan I can live with (including more rest between workouts). After I realized the dietitian meant I can eat 1500 calories - WITHOUT my activity (I had assumed net), I knew that wasn't for me.
  • jleye27
    jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
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    I'm in week #4. The first 2 weeks I bumped up by 200 calories each week, but have been eating at TDEE (sometimes higher) for the past 2 weeks. Two days of lifting, three hours of cardio. Hit my macros every day. Gained 5 lbs of water weight the first week, but now have LOST a pound from that number.

    I expected to gain, not lose at all - is that normal? Should I be eating MORE? I'm not complaining, just curious if I'm doing something wrong that will bite me later. :)
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Just means that for the time you were eating more, your body was willing to raise metabolism fast enough you never really had enough time or calories to be in surplus enough to gain fat. Or muscle if lifting.

    So that's good, except usually if willing to move that fast up, it's more than able to go that fast down if feeling stressed.

    So keep that in mind when you take a deficit. Even more important probably to confirm you really have a reasonable deficit - not just in numbers, but in reality.
    So if results of weight loss are ever slower than expected, either eating more than you think, burning less than you think, and to that second point, hopefully not because the body is suppressing again.

    So congrats on recovery no matter what.

    Does it feel like it?

    So 2 weeks eating high number, and lost 1 lb.
    So it would appear you still have a 250 cal deficit in place then, from true TDEE.

    Or it's the fact your BMR literally does change through the month.

    Or slight water weight fluctuation.

    Or combo.

    You might increase calories by 250 more as test, keep normal workout.

    That should be a slow 1 lb gain, if current level really is TDEE.
    If no gain, new level is potential TDEE.
    But you can test again with 250 more daily for another 2 weeks to see what happens.
    With the lifting, it won't be mostly fat gain of 1 lb, but LBM, hopefully some muscle too.
  • jleye27
    jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
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    While I feel better than I did, I am certainly not ready to cut yet (nor do I especially want to - instead of being in a hurry to cut, I'm a little gun shy). I'll bump up 250 after this week and see how it goes. One pound is not going to kill me.

    I have REALLY been enjoying the reset so far. It's a huge relief to be able to eat good, healthy food and not be afraid of every single calorie/ounce of fat, and to stop draining myself by working out 7-8 hours every week. I don't think I would have appreciated the difference had I not gone through the drastic deficit.
  • jleye27
    jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
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    I looked at my numbers again, and of the 5 pounds of water weight gained the first week, I've lost 4 of them in 3 weeks. I've noticed improvements such as skin tone and more energy (not feeling like I'm being dragged through the mud in the morning),... so my body must be using those extra calories and nutrition to repair my metabolism, right? even if I haven't really gained? I'm still planning to up my calories by 250 next week and see where I stand after that. Has anyone had to eat MORE than TDEE to get everything jump started? I'm certainly not going to complain if I need to... and I do still feel hungry sometimes, not stuffed from the extra calories. Priority #1 is getting my metabolism back into shape... #2, further down the line, is getting my clothes to fit well again.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Well, repair probably not right word, but willing to let you move more, which of course burns more, so that's not really metabolism.
    One of the body's adaptation to undereating for what it would like is by slowing down your spontaneous activity.
    You may have gotten some of that back, plus body willing to repair normal stuff faster.
    And, may indeed have become more inefficient metabolically, back to original level, or getting there anyway.

    There was a study as to eating in surplus improving daily burns. Of course they still gained fat because being in a surplus. Just like lifters on bulk will gain some level of fat.
    It seems your body just isn't willing to make some improvements that require expending more energy daily unless it knows it has plenty of incoming calories to maintain it, and store some extra as fat is signal of that fact.

    Some metabolic effects of overeating in man

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3538842

    If you are indeed eating at real maintenance, you would not lose that gained water weight.
    That gained water weight, unless you started eating more sodium too, is glycogen stores finally being topped off with water.
    If you were to lose that water weight, it would imply you are not topping them back off.
    If not, then not eating at maintenance.

    But body is obviously very happy with where it's at and probably losing fat. So for good reset, indeed move on up, really unstress it.

    Great job.
  • jleye27
    jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
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    at week 5, I "accidentally" added 500 cals/day, and gained about a pound over a week (same schedule around weigh-in days). so that tells me that, theoretically with all things equal, upping 250/day would have been my TDEE at the time. that's where I'm trying to stay this week. At week 6, I am definitely feeling more tired (which I remember reading is very common around this time). Even though I've gained a little weight, it's not much, and I can tell I've lost some fat, and holy cow, are those MUSCLES? I think they are!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Great results. Hopefully that helps any dagging doubts in the mind anywhere.
  • jleye27
    jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
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    Starting my cut (15%) this week after 10 weeks of reset. Feeling pretty good, and definitely noticed metabolic-related improvements and things getting back to "normal". Gained a total of 12 pounds during the reset, which doesn't seem that bad. I was afraid it would be even more.
  • sarahorange55
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    great news - let us know how you get on!! 12lbs eek am impressed how well you are handling it!!! looking forward to hearing your results!

    What metabolic improvements have you noticed? Just curious?
  • jleye27
    jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
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    sarah: first thing I noticed was getting color back in my skin - not so pale. I'm no longer cold all the time, and actually feel HOT sometimes. Recovering faster from workouts, more energy, hormones getting back to normal with cycles, just generally feeling better than I did. WIth my RMR as low as it was, I pretty much felt like garbage all the time - and I wasn't losing any weight.

    I mentally prepared for gaining at least 20 pounds back. After initially losing 63 pounds doing it the wrong way, only having to lose around 15 to get where I want AND be healthy while eating more doesn't seem so bad.

    It's like the best of all worlds - my clothes will fit again, I'll be heathier, AND I get to eat more! AND I don't have to kill myself 6 hours a week with cardio (and then feel horrible after - not energized). SO much better than struggling along at 1200-1400 a day and feeling miserable.
  • sarahorange55
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    some great positives there - so pleased for you!!

    and yes I can see your 12/15 in retrospect is pretty good!!
  • jleye27
    jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
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    two weeks into cut and the scale has moved down. very happy!

    it is awesome that I am losing weight at 900 calories MORE than I used to eat (and not lose!)
  • jleye27
    jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
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    ended up eating at TDEE for 3 weeks (oops) and maintained... so it's nice to know what my TDEE is, even if it meant failing at cut. :) Been at cut again for the past week +.. no change in scale, but I've definitely noticed changes in size. I'm a little less hungry than when I first tried to cut, so maybe it's a better time to do it now.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Strange, when going in to a diet from maintenance, you should have lost water weight because your body stores less glycogen.

    You were eating at TDEE you think because you didn't gain or lose?

    But weren't you eating 900 less and also not gaining or losing, and that wasn't potential TDEE was it?

    Did you start exercise program back up that you could be retaining water from repair?

    I ask because change of seasons can bring change to non-exercise activity levels, and you may be more active than prior.

    Then again, can take longer than a week to see something, but rarely for water weight.
  • jleye27
    jleye27 Posts: 19 Member
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    I did have water weight loss when I first started to cut 4 weeks ago. Then my calories bumped back up for 3 weeks - but my weight didn't. It's possible my activity level changed with the lawn mowing season starting. Once I added more calories, I should've gone back up, at least with water weight - but maybe with the difference in activity, I didn't, so it was actually below TDEE and not at it. Do I have it right?