I heard about a guys who's cat was having kidney failure and the vet wanted the cat off of high protein foods (like fish), the guy was Paleo so like anyone with a brain he knew cats needs protein so he took him off the regular cat food and put it on all meat, the cat is still around 3 years later. Why the heck not put him on it most dog food is full of grains.

Our baby (she's a boxer) has a sensitive tummy too but we feed her grain free food and get the best quality we can find at a reasonable price. She is completely happy and healthy, we also try not to change her flavor or brand very often.

You can do a "bland diet" consisting of some white rice and ground meat. I homecook for my dogs and they're meals are pretty much Paleo. (snacks, not so much). Hope your pooch feels better soon!

My dog and cat were "paleo" before I was. I feed them raw food K9/Feline Natural or B.A.R.F. If my dog eats grains she gets sooo sick. My vet guilt tripped me into feeding her grains as a pup and her health went down hill. Gas so bad it could clear a room, bloating so bad her skin on her tummy was shinny it was stretched so tight and diarrhea...omg the diarrhea. It was reversed as soon as I removed it.

When I got my first dog after being on my own, I, of course, gave them standard pet food (Purina dog chow). That "worked" for a while, in the sense that it didn't cause any major medical issues, but he always had a sensitive stomach and was prone to having loose stools (to put it nicely). We also had trouble with his teeth, and with him getting into the trash. The vet wanted to put him under and do a scaling, but that was really expensive, and he hated the vet with the passion of a thousand suns (he was a rescue and had worms while in the shelter, so probably didn't have great experiences). So, we tried brushing his teeth, but that worked for all of a week, and we started trying the various tooth-cleaning chews at the pet store.

Eventually, we "upgraded" his food to Purina One, then, sometime after we got our second dog, we switched to Blue Buffalo when one day they both got sick. This, again, worked for a year or two, and it helped to get the older dog off of the really low-grade, grain-heavy stuff.

By this time, the vet wanted to scale both of their teeth, and this was about the time we started really getting uncomfortable with the status quo. Our second dog wasn't a shelter mutt, but a purebred hunting Beagle I had sweet-talked my stepdad out of. We'd had him since he was about 12 weeks old, and my stepdad doesn't breed unhealthy dogs (between being outside dogs and running rabbits, they have to be robust; they also meet AKC standards, since they're all registered). The vet claimed that my stepdad just "didn't breed them for good teeth." Seriously?

That was January of the year before last. By spring, the older dog had started turning down his food. When we looked at his teeth, we found that they were in horrible shape. Full of gunk and threatening to deteriorate (if they weren't already). So, we started looking for things to do about it. Getting them scaled every year (at least) was out of the question. Not only was that costly and stressful on him, but it was only dealing with a symptom, and not in an efficient way. Instead, we wanted to find out the cause, or at least what we could do about it.

We also were having periodic trouble with both of their weights. They were always slightly overweight, to which, of course, the vet just said "reduce their food." The problem with that, though, was that they seemed to always be hungry, and had ongoing issues with them stealing food and going through the trash.

That's when we started learning about raw feeding. After much research to make sure we did it right (proper amounts, types of food, preparation or whatever, etc), we gave it a try. We decided that prey model (as opposed to ground or omnivorous plans) made the most sense and was potentially the most economical.

Not only did both dogs take to it immediately, but even the older dog was chewing on meat, tendons, bones, everything. Even more? Their teeth were getting cleaned. It was actually quite gross the first few times, as the act of chewing on the bones was scaling his teeth and breaking off the plaque buildup in chunks.

Within a few weeks, their teeth were noticeably whiter, their coats were quite a bit shinier, they didn't stink as much (wet dog is still wet dog), and neither of them had interest in the people food or trash. For the first time, the older dog had consistently balanced stools. He also had far more energy and was a lot more youthful (by this time, he was going on 6 years old, and since he was a large breed, he was getting up there in age). After a few months on their new diet, they had both also lost weight, and we could easily keep them at an ideal weight.

We ended up changing vets, in part because when we floated the idea of raw feeding to our old vet, they not only scoffed, but claimed that it was "dangerous" and "unhealthy." :noway: The new one, on the other hand, said they love people who raw feed (they also like wearing Vibram Five Fingers, so that's a plus in my book). It helped to have a vet that agreed with our dietary choices for them.

The older one died late last summer (conditions unrelated to diet), and a month or so later, we got another shelter dog. We immediately started him on the raw diet, which he also took to easily. He was less than a year old, but his teeth are still pearly white and we've had more issue keeping weight on him than off of him (that's since gotten better, since he's stopped growing, it was hard to gauge his needs, since he's a shelter mutt, which makes it hard to know how big he's going to get). They've both continued to do well on it, and we rarely have any of the issues we experienced with kibble-fed dogs.

Oh, and as an added bonus - no more big, stinky turds. Raw fed dog turds break down within a day or two into nothingness, and don't really stink even when fresh. Nothing like being able to walk around the yard without having to worry about stepping in something.

So yeah, raw meat is the way to go. To save money, check with your local butcher(s) and see about getting the scraps that they can't sell. As long as it's not the ungulate weight-bearing bones, you can feed dogs just about anything, even if it's a little too "ripe" for humans. As Akima said, dogs are carnivores, and are genetically the same as wolves (to the point that cross breeding is still possible, all the variations are solely from phenotypical gene expression, not mutations, and they certainly haven't changed to the point that they're anything but carnivores). Cats are obligate carnivores -- they need meat to function properly. They are meant to eat this way.

I recommend checking out http://rawfeddogs.org/ . It's a great resource that goes into detail about why raw, prey model is the best way to feed dogs, and dispells a number of myths about raw feeding, as well as guides on what/how much to feed.

Thanks everyone! We feed them more expensive food now...Nutro something another, but there still are fillers. I've been wanting to move them onto raw but my hubz thinks it's too much money. At this point that doesn't matter anymore and I want them to be healthy. I will for sure be doing some more research! Thank you!

PS......she has a TON on plaque buildup despite getting her teeth cleaned once a year. I'm so excited to make this change for both of them!

Too expensive? For their health and lives? you live in Minnesota (unless I got the state wrong; I'm a Canadian) so ask your husband to go hunting. Or you could hunt; I do. Real food for the family AND the dogs.

Please do keep us up to date with this, it is an interesting situation and I love hearing about successes that trump current medical opinion. Out vet had us remove our cat's canned tuna when she was going though kidney failure and she wouldn't eat the medical diet food, there is no happy ending to this story.

Try making some fresh salmon or tuna and feeding that. The problem with the canned is that the salt content will damage the kidneys further.

That was years back and I had no concept of this lifestyle but it will not happen again.

Please do keep us up to date with this, it is an interesting situation and I love hearing about successes that trump current medical opinion. Out vet had us remove our cat's canned tuna when she was going though kidney failure and she wouldn't eat the medical diet food, there is no happy ending to this story.

Feeding tuna to a cat is not a good idea (unless as an occasional treat). Human-grade tuna does not have taurine, which is essential for cats (and readily available in the rodents and lizards they naturally eat). Lack of taurine in a cat's diet will lead to blindness eventually.

There are non-grain seafood for cats that have the necessary nutrients like taurine added (like Fussy Cat). Stick with those for regular feeding.

While dogs are more omnivorous than cats (you should see my basset hound up on his hind legs eating the low-hanging figs from my tree), our dogs are also on a grain-free diet.

http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html

Also, just because an animal does eat something, it doesn't mean it's in any way good for them or that they get any nutrition out of it.

While dogs are more omnivorous than cats (you should see my basset hound up on his hind legs eating the low-hanging figs from my tree), our dogs are also on a grain-free diet.

http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html

Also, just because an animal does eat something, it doesn't mean it's in any way good for them or that they get any nutrition out of it.

You not only misunderstood me, so does the author of the blurb you posted - who is a proponent of raw diets and is propagandizing.

I said "more omnivorous than cats" - dogs are also carnivores, but cats are obligate carnivores - meaning in the wild, felids only eat animals. The facts about dogs in the wild indicate that dogs eat raw meat but, unlike cats, can get a good portion of their necessary nutrition from fruit and plants. A hungry wild dog may eat a fruit or a plant (like my basset and the fig tree), but a hungry wild cat will not.

A raw diet may be better for dogs and cats - assuming that the appropriate nutrients are included. Humans and dogs can produce taurine - so it is not needed; cats cannot (one of the distinctives of an obligate carnivore) and so it must be added.

You are right, though I'd be careful with using the term "omnivorous" to describe dogs at all. As stupid as it is (to me, at least), it's a controversial thing over whether dogs are carnivores or omnivores.

Dogs are facultative carnivores, and don't suffer as much from less meat or lacking certain nutrients for a while, whereas, like you mentioned, cats are obligate carnivores, and suffer greatly from even a single meal that lacks certain nutrients. Dogs can eat more non-meat foods, but, they don't get much in the way of nutrients from it -- they simply don't have the gut composition or flora to really get much out of it.

And the "blurb" was my own, not a quote from the link. Being able to do something, and it being good or ideal are two different things. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

On a side note, the site I linked is no more propagandizing than the myriad of Paleo books and websites thrown around this group (and arguably, it's not even as bad as some, since it doesn't have books or products to sell). It also has quite a few more sources cited than most other sites claiming canine dietary needs (hell, even Wikipedia, which is usually a good place to find citations for certain claims, has a "citation needed" note for the line saying "dogs are omnivorous"). The myths following the one I linked are quite fascinating, actually.

But anywho, I'm really not trying to fight, so I'll just stop at this point, since I suspect even the above will be taken as argumentative (it's really not meant to be, I just don't know how else to phrase it).

My "fancy" old farm dog has been grain-free for about 3 years since he had a ton of skin issues and smelled like a corn chip on regular dog food.
He has a healthy helping of green beans every night to keep his weight down.
He also loves carrots, sweet potatoes, kale, spinach, cauliflower, strawberries and tomatoes just to name a few.

He eats pretty good!
He had knee repair surgery last year so he has to stay light to help his joints so the green beans help him feel fuller.

Since he's been grain free, he's maintained a healthy weight and has no stomach issues..unless he decides to steal a box of Godiva...like at Christmas.

Please do keep us up to date with this, it is an interesting situation and I love hearing about successes that trump current medical opinion. Out vet had us remove our cat's canned tuna when she was going though kidney failure and she wouldn't eat the medical diet food, there is no happy ending to this story.

You might want to consider some extra researching on the "low protein" thing. Cats, especially, are built to thrive on a high-protein diet. It doesn't make sense, then, that depriving them of protein would do them any favors, even in a situation of kidney failure. Cats are not humans, and shouldn't be treated as such, and I think that's largely what's happening here.

Unfortunately, conventional veterinary medicine is in as poor a shape (if not poorer) than conventional human medicine.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/08/06/kidney-disease-in-cats.aspx

Good heads-up for everyone,Golightly, thanks. I read that it was a lot of different brands that were toxic - all meat jerkies from China, for both dogs and cats.

I'm finding this whole thread interesting. We feed our cats Fancy Feast (the Classic canned has no grains) and Blue Wilderness grain-free kibble (they love chicken and salmon, hate the duck). I'd love to make their food, but haven't invested in the meat grinder yet - good ones that will do bones are pricey.

One of our cats grew up with a house rabbit, and eats a lot of greens - chard, escarole, spinach. He'll beg for them like begging for a treat. Or else he'll help himself to my salad when I'm not looking. No digestive issues - he just was close to our rabbit, and cats do learn behaviors from the animals around them.

I'd love to make their food, but haven't invested in the meat grinder yet - good ones that will do bones are pricey.

You don't need to grind their meat up, not even for cats. The most you might have to do is cut it up or otherwise expose the tasty innards (especially with cats, as they tend to be picky). You might have to mix it in with their usual food for a while, but there's no reason (other than cats' pickiness) why you can't just give them whole animals like sardines or whatever, or chunks of bone-in meat.

This isn't totally related to the original post but Happy Hips dog treats are going to be recalled.

I assume you're giving them to your dogs for the glucosamine content? If so, talk to your butcher about getting the chicken (and other poultry) feet. They're packed with glucosamine and condroitin, and it's a lot more bioavailable to your animals than the fortified stuff.