At wits end

TriLaura
TriLaura Posts: 34 Member
I'm sorry, but I just need a shoulder! For one reason or another, this is not working as expected.

I weighed in this morning to see a gain of 1.4kg. This is on top of the same gain last weekend.

Average calories consumed - over the last 4 weeks: 2055, 1999, 2083, 2102

Average calories burned (Fitbit) over 4 weeks: 2929, 2970, 2883, 2885

So why am I gaining? This week my measurements have all increased b y 1-2cm and some of my work clothes are a lot too tight for my liking.

Sorry to vent. Just so frustrated and freaked out. I promised myself I wouldn't let this get out of control and, well, there you go. 5kg increase since January and all I want to do is go back to 1500cal.

:sad:

Replies

  • running4myboys
    running4myboys Posts: 44 Member
    Hang in there! I've gone through the same thing! I'm finally eating at my TDEE which is about 3150/day. Soooo glad to see someone as high as me! LOL! I've gained from 162.8 to 170.6 & I'm finally holding steady around that mark, within about a pound. I'm going to stay at TDEE and do a reset for a while yet. At least until mid June and I might go further.

    1500 will not give you the fuel you need!
  • AnitraSoto
    AnitraSoto Posts: 725 Member
    If those numbers are accurate, then that is still a really steep deficit that you are at... Tell us a little bit more about your previous dieting history and what you have been doing, intake and exercise-wise, so we can try to help you.
  • TriLaura
    TriLaura Posts: 34 Member
    If those numbers are accurate, then that is still a really steep deficit that you are at... Tell us a little bit more about your previous dieting history and what you have been doing, intake and exercise-wise, so we can try to help you.

    Hi Anitra. My history goes a little like this:

    2008 - I weighed 145kg (which is about 320lbs I think). I was 32 and had been obese since age 10. I started counting calories using Calorie King. Tracked foods, exercised moderately 5 days a week, slowly lost weight. I followed the CK way of eating just over BMR and then eating back exercise calories.

    2010 - got to my lowest adult weight of 75kg (about 176lbs-ish). I unfortunately lowered my calories quite low. I was eating 1500cal and by then I wasn't eating back exercise calories. So I was netting <1000cals.

    I tried to return to higher calories but kept putting on weight, so stuck to 1500cals for the next 12months, then upped it to 1800cals when I trained for a half marathon (2010, 2011) and then a half ironman (2012). My weight hovered around 77kg through 2011 and then around 81kg in 2012-2013. I was averaging 8-10hrs a week of training (on 1800cals), sometimes training twice a day. But I noticed my muscle mass starting dropping and I was getting quite "fluffy".

    Last year I found myself really quite worn down. I was getting injured, feeling really moody and falling asleep half way through dinner of an evening. I was training for my first marathon when I tore cartilage in my knee. I had to stop running which did my head in quite badly. In November I found Leigh Peele and realised I just was not eating enough. I attempted a metabolic reset over Xmas and New Year (but it wasn't long enough). It seemed to be working, I reduced my training, ate more, went back to the gym and was feeling good. It was going along quite nicely but my fitness has suffered quite badly.

    I have been experiencing a lot of stress this year (at home and at work) and my sleep is just awful. I wake every night at 2 and 4am like clockwork, and I'm very restless. I wake up quite tired.

    I log my foods accurately and more often than not, I'm likely to undereat than overeat when stressed/tired/etc. So I just don't see where the weight gain has come from. Worst of all, it scares me. I don't want to go back to being that obese, and while I'm pretty sure I'm not going to hit 145kg again, the thought of even getting to 90kg freaks me out. I'm not even eating at TDEE, so while I know that these deficits are too big, my brain just can't accept that I have to eat more (or exercise less) to reduce the deficit so as to lessen the stress on my body.

    In "theory" I get it. In practice, yeah, not so much. Any help you could offer would be wonderful. Thanks.
  • peachNpunkin
    peachNpunkin Posts: 1,010 Member
    Bump
  • AnitraSoto
    AnitraSoto Posts: 725 Member
    The first thing that strikes me about your post is the stress you seem to be feeling. On this journey, stress is one of our worst enemies, and can work against us even when we are doing everything else right... Something to remember: eating at a deficit is a stress on the body. Exercise is a stress on the body. The stresses of daily life are a stress on the body. Add more stress by stressing over weight loss/gain and you are putting your body into overdrive and most likely will increase your cortisol levels. :noway:

    Cortisol is called the "stress hormone" because increased amounts of cortisol can be secreted during times of physical or psychological stress (read: diet and exercise), often resulting in weight gain...

    You said that when you tried to do the reset previously that you had good results, but just didn't continue it long enough. If I were you, I would go back to that...... You said it seemed to be working ---- you reduced your training, increased your intake, and felt good. I would go back to doing that and just give it some more time (EM2WL recommends resetting for a minimum of 8 - 12 weeks).

    If you are really nervous about adding any more weight, try increasing your calories slowly. Add 100 calories a day and stay at that level for a week or so before pushing it another 100 calories higher. This slow method seems to help some avoid those big jumps on the scale that can be so disheartening... It gives the body (and the mind) time to adjust along the way.

    You are right --- you do seem to understand the process "in theory", now it's just a matter of putting it in action :drinker: . The repeated injuries are most likely caused by stressing the body too much without the appropriate fuel. Back off on the training (that will relieve some of that stress...), Up your calories slowly (that will relieve *that* stress). And finally, try to remove that last element of stress by relaxing and trying to enjoy the journey --- enjoy fueling your body and enjoy the extra strength and energy you will get from that fuel. Think of it as a gift you are giving to your body after years of deprivation and over-use.

    You know what to do --- now just put those wheels in motion.

    Feel free to add me if you would like a friend along the way. :flowerforyou:

    Anitra
  • TriLaura
    TriLaura Posts: 34 Member
    Thanks for the advice, Anitra.

    My current exercise routine is a shadow of its former-self. Right now, it goes like this:

    Mon: Gym/strength - 60min
    Tues: Walk - 60min or swim - 30min
    Wed: Run - 30min
    Thu: Gym/strength - 60min
    Fri: Run - 35min
    Sat: official 'rest day' although I sometimes go to the gym
    Sun: long run - 45mins

    So that is around 4.5 to 5hrs of exercise. I do have a physical job (PE teacher) so I spend most of the day on my feet.

    When I did the re-set, I walked for an hour a day and my average calorie burn was around 2500cals (and I was on school holidays).

    I guess I just suffer from the old myth that eating more will make me gain weight. I know that I 'know' better but I think the fear of regaining too much weight plays with my thoughts.

    Okay, need to eat some more then. And maybe actually rest on Saturdays.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Wow, this is your story.

    http://skepchick.org/2014/02/the-female-athlete-triad-not-as-fun-as-it-sounds/

    Also reminder, Fitbit can't possibly know you have suppressed your body to burn less, or be more metabolically efficient.
    It doesn't even have a way to include the fact you may have a decent amount of less muscle mass than others your age, weight, height, so that your BMR is less than expected.

    Your description of heavy training pointed that out, body will burn muscle somewhere if needed, what you used the most is the last that is lost, so it can take awhile to show up what's been happening to the body.

    So just be aware your Fitbit is likely inflated calorie burn for the amount of muscle mass you have now. Hence the recommendation to move up slowly.

    But, also confirm you are manually inputting workouts it's bad at estimating. Anything non-step based is best manually entered, or you'll get mostly underestimated calorie burn.
    Like it thought it ran 6.43 miles for 950 cal, when actually 7.3 for 1204 calories. 12% and 21% off is pretty bad. And would create a very undesired deficit when you add up several workouts through the week.
    Now walking and calm runs are alright for Fitbit, but this was hill running so I had no expectation it would be close.

    Look at your workouts the same way, manually log anything it has no chance to get right.
    The long runs have most potential for being wrong, shorter runs probably decent, especially if you manually entered in your stride length. Walking good, swimming obviously not along with strength.

    If you haven't been doing that yet, you had an even bigger deficit from potential TDEE (what it says total calorie burn was).

    Now then again, you don't gain on a suppressed TDEE unless you eat over it for some spike meals, or it's actually water weight gain.

    Only weigh-in on valid days - morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.

    And if you started a new workout or new level of intensity in week prior to those weight gains, retained water for muscle repair is likely.
  • TriLaura
    TriLaura Posts: 34 Member
    Heybales, I had always ruled out the female triad because I never lost my period, nor was I ever underweight. Some of the other symptoms listed though sound awfully familiar. Luckily for me most of my injuries are soft tissue, although can't say I'd consider the torn meniscus in my knee 'lucky'. I still want to run a marathon and complete a full ironman.

    In 2012 I had my BF/LBM measured via bodpod and was ranked quite high with regards to lean muscle, and at that time (it was April or May I think) my RMR was around 1800. My BF at that time was 23%.

    Of course, that is now 2 years ago. I plan on getting a DEXA done in July to give me a more accurate picture again.

    With regards to the points you mention, I have had a hard time trying to figure out what my metabolism is actually doing. I suspect it has dropped - whether due to lost LBM or high efficiency - but all that thought did was confuse me more. Too many variables.

    I think it's probably important for me to focus on eating/fueling right, although I feel like I've been saying that for 2 years and still not got it right. :( After reading those articles on the female triad though, perhaps I need to consider my overall health more. Not that what I eat is nutritionally poor, just lacking.

    Thank you all so very much for your feedback. My awful prediction is that this will take me a good 6-8 months to figure this out properly and find the right balance. Needless to say I might be back for more advice or another good ole rant.
  • braves1girl
    braves1girl Posts: 189 Member
    What AnitraSoto said is so very true! And, like you, I'm still struggling with the same issue...sressing over my weight on the scale! I did NOT head her advice at the beginning of my reset and just dove right in eating 2100 from <1200! My scale jumped 20 lbs!!! To top it all off, I had hormonal issues that were contributing to my stress, which ultimately resulted in a hysterectomy in Dec and then the recovery. My recovery took about 3-4 wks longer than "I planned" (I'm not the best patient, as patience is not one of my virtues). But with Anitra's help and the EM2WL guidance, I'm making progress. It's VERY slow, but I'm doing it. Do I want it to come off RIGHT NOW? Absoultely!!! But I know that if I did this fast, the result wouldn't last. You can do this...let go of the stress over your weight and your injuries, because time is the best thing for those. You WILL reach your goal!!! After all, you've got us to support you! :flowerforyou:
  • TriLaura
    TriLaura Posts: 34 Member
    :explode: :explode: :explode: :explode:

    Back to vent. Sorry.

    I've given this another 2 weeks. Average calories in: 2072 and 2043. Average calorie burn (FitBit): 2955 and 2830

    And yet I have gain another 0.6kg. So I haven't increased my calories and still managed to make my weight go up (along with my measurements, for that matter).

    What the heck is wrong with me?

    I just seem to be ballooning. How on earth am I supposed to increase my calories to even come close to TDEE?

    Have I screwed my metabolism that much?

    I really just don't know what to do.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Gotten hotter where you are compared to prior?
    Blood volume will expand to help with cooling.

    Do you weigh all your foods eaten, measuring only liquids?
    That includes package weight of items because it may contain more than label states.

    Are you correcting the Fitbit on most of those workouts it's going to underestimate?
    If so, how are you getting the calorie burns to manually enter that workout?
    Do you have access to treadmill and HRM?
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/getting-your-personalized-calorie-burn-formula-663625

    Because you didn't gain in a deficit (which you aren't in of course). Even if that level of eating, whether accurate or not, is your actual suppressed TDEE right now (and it likely is), you would only gain eating more than that, but not often enough for body to actually raise the metabolism, just enough to add fat. But a few really bad binge days of being discouraged could add up.

    Now, if indeed only fat and no water gains (only valid weigh-in days, right?) the following would apply.
    Weight change 0.6 kg x 7716 cal/kg fat / 14 days = 331 extra calories daily

    Which would imply your potential TDEE is around 1750 - and that just isn't the case.

    Now, it could have been less than that, and you still have some water weight gain because of your training, body is trying to pack in more carbs for endurance needed.

    Or, your logging of food is dead on correct and accurate, and that would mean your real TDEE is actually about 1750.

    Simple test to confirm if you are eating above real honest potential TDEE, not suppressed at all.

    Eat 250 more for 2 weeks, so right at 2000.
    If 1750 really is your potential TDEE, you will gain 0.45 kg slowly over the whole time.

    But, if you gain faster water weight or more - you are still at suppressed TDEE, and your body just packed in more carbs finally, along with attached water.

    Absolutely required with above is to have 2 valid weigh-in days to minimize known water weight gain/loss.
    Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.

    Or you believe that 1750 is your potential TDEE, and take 15% deficit off of that, so eat 1488 with the same level of exercise as last 2 weeks.

    If your food logging is bad, and you actually did eat much more you aren't aware of, then 1488 will also be more than you are aware of, so don't cut and get more accurate at the same time. So 1488 may appear bad, but with inaccuracy is higher.

    As to why the Fitbit is so off, what workouts do you NOT manually enter, totally it's estimate?
    Did you get your stride lengths measured for running and walking instead of defaults?
  • TriLaura
    TriLaura Posts: 34 Member
    Thanks Heybales. In relation to questions you asked:

    Yes, I weigh/measure everything. Drives my partner nuts, but I do it.

    My food logging is probably 90% accurate - if I prepare everything I eat, then count that as 100% but I have dinner with family on Wednesdays and so have to do a best guess scenario. If anything, I tend to enter higher calories to cover myself.

    I use a HRM when I run/ride so I do correct those calorie burns. I tend not to wear it when I'm lifting and so have just been using the mfp suggestion, which is about 150cal for 40mins of weight training. I also don't wear a HRM when walking because then I just get too competitive and go for big burns. So I use mapmyfitness to map it and then use their calorie estimate minus 100 or so.

    I haven't worried too much about stride length for the fitbit because I find it's difficult to settle on a suitable stride length. I live in a pretty hilly town, so I'm always going up and down hills. I have done the experiment of comparing number of steps to distance travelled (using gps) but it always seems to give me a different stride length regardless of whether I'm running or walking.

    So if my TDEE is suppressed - which I suspect is the case - then do I increase calories or stay where I'm at (2000-2100)?

    Sorry to ask dumb questions but I feel like I'm see-sawing between totally giving up and going back to the lower calories - which I know (deep down in my heart) is not the answer. Neither of those options are, but I'm terribly frustrated with my body. What's worse, is I realise I've done this to myself through low calories, extreme training and a general fear of gaining back weight.
  • skbarton
    skbarton Posts: 141 Member

    Sorry to ask dumb questions but I feel like I'm see-sawing between totally giving up and going back to the lower calories - which I know (deep down in my heart) is not the answer. Neither of those options are, but I'm terribly frustrated with my body. What's worse, is I realise I've done this to myself through low calories, extreme training and a general fear of gaining back weight.

    Can't add much except my encouragement. Nothing more frustrating to be doing what you think you should be doing and weight just goes up - that's been my story for the last couple of years. I don't want to jinx it, but I've been following Heybales' suggestions and I "think" I'm seeing a turn around. My thread with him is at the In Place of a Road Map group. My weight this morning was a number I hadn't seen since last November! Hang in there - there's a lot of supportive people in this group!

    Susan
  • zingdak
    zingdak Posts: 14 Member
    I don't mean to hijack this thread, but how will one know when reset has been attained. Per OP's post, it seems like she is not close, but how does one know?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Thanks Heybales. In relation to questions you asked:

    Yes, I weigh/measure everything. Drives my partner nuts, but I do it.

    My food logging is probably 90% accurate - if I prepare everything I eat, then count that as 100% but I have dinner with family on Wednesdays and so have to do a best guess scenario. If anything, I tend to enter higher calories to cover myself.

    I use a HRM when I run/ride so I do correct those calorie burns. I tend not to wear it when I'm lifting and so have just been using the mfp suggestion, which is about 150cal for 40mins of weight training. I also don't wear a HRM when walking because then I just get too competitive and go for big burns. So I use mapmyfitness to map it and then use their calorie estimate minus 100 or so.

    I haven't worried too much about stride length for the fitbit because I find it's difficult to settle on a suitable stride length. I live in a pretty hilly town, so I'm always going up and down hills. I have done the experiment of comparing number of steps to distance travelled (using gps) but it always seems to give me a different stride length regardless of whether I'm running or walking.

    So if my TDEE is suppressed - which I suspect is the case - then do I increase calories or stay where I'm at (2000-2100)?

    Sorry to ask dumb questions but I feel like I'm see-sawing between totally giving up and going back to the lower calories - which I know (deep down in my heart) is not the answer. Neither of those options are, but I'm terribly frustrated with my body. What's worse, is I realise I've done this to myself through low calories, extreme training and a general fear of gaining back weight.

    Good on the food logging.

    I think I see some issues perhaps on the calorie burn side of the equation, not sure if it'll mean you have much less burn than thought, or much more, and deficit is really huge.

    Correct method for weight lifting, it may be smaller compared to equal time cardio, but that is correct, and HRM would be inflated.

    As to HRM being trustworthy for other cardio - did you check that link out?
    If no access to treadmill, it might be difficult to do the personal calorie burn chart, but there's another link in there to at least confirm your HRM is decently accurate, and you could do that if you had the distance, time (therefore pace), and amount of gain (to figure incline) that MMF will tell you.

    This could be done on your walks too, so wear the HRM for a walk just to see what it says.
    Then get your pace figured out, take the total Gain that MMF gives (or whatever they call it) and plug in to following formula.
    (Total Gain x 2) / miles / 5280 x 100 = % incline.

    Now use this with the Gross option (which is what HRM would report, and what you'd replace Fitbit estimate with).
    http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs.html

    So first it would be good to see how close Fitbit was, because for exercise walking (faster, up/down, ect) it's going to underestimate.
    Then second to see how close was the HRM for that time, as long as HR was above say 100 avg. If it wasn't, then you can't confirm the HRM with your walks, you'll need to jog and do above test.

    That will then tell you how trustworthy is it for the riding too.
    Because the cheaper Polar's are going to be bad at underestimating calorie burns if really fit (higher VO2), but also inflated if better Polar with VO2 self-test and stat, so iffy on that one - but best to know before you go back in to bigger training volumes burning more calories.

    The Fitbit stride length, if you care to correct it, should only be done level at an average pace. So walking would not be fast exercise walking, probably more about 3.5 mph. Running at whatever speed is average flat.
    But it can tell from accelerometer what is expected for impact on weight and stride length, and if it records harder and longer than expected, you were going down a hill, lighter and shorter then up a hill, expected but longer then bigger strides, ect. But the base is supposed to be for flat.

    So depending on these corrections done, 2000 may be no where near a reasonable deficit.
    Actually, even for current estimate of TDEE that I'm betting is low, it's already too big.

    While I have seen ones get healed while keeping a reasonable deficit - it's long and slow, you basically keep the suppressed TDEE for a long time (months) before it feels like rising to where it could, and so weight loss slowly starts coming back, very little at first until getting to expected level.

    This groups method goes first for the healing, body and mind, get it over with faster in comparison, then take your reasonable deficit.

    But 2000 isn't reasonable anyway. Even with I believe under-estimated TDEE, it would be closer to 2400. With better estimated TDEE, it'l going to be higher with only 11 kg to go.

    So you saw my description of the 2 week test, get started on the path to healing by doing the 2 week 250 test.
    And with your workout schedule, still concerned about valid weigh-in which you haven't commented on.
    Reread my description of that in last post - confirm you only do those, or if you weigh daily, tag the valid ones as only being useful.

    1 - While doing that, find a past week of standard average activity, walking and exercise.
    2 - Check and correct the walking using that link above, I'm betting it's low when you include incline, and the fact you took 100 off too.
    3 - Do that for any runs too actually, that link is within 4% of tested in studies, much better than even best setup HRM.
    4 - Find a run anywhere in the past, where the avgHR matched a bike ride during that week, and have decent stats to do the same link for the run, and use the same calorie burn for the bike ride time to correct that too.

    You just want a good solid week to get an idea of how close was the Fitbit reported TDEE, and easiest to do that on a past week where you have data to look at. But start using those methods on new exercise going forward too.
    Only need to find out how far off it is - may not need to do all these corrections going forward. Then again, if you want to eat correctly for amount of activity - you may need to.

    So to get over this fear, your potential fast weight gain is going to be water tied to more stored carbs, which will help you perform better.

    Want to perform better?

    Accept the increase in good useful weight.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    I don't mean to hijack this thread, but how will one know when reset has been attained. Per OP's post, it seems like she is not close, but how does one know?

    Eat 250 more calories daily for 2 weeks.

    If you gain 1 lb or 0.45 kg slowly over the entire time, the prior eating level was indeed potential TDEE and you did reset eating at that point.

    If you gain faster and/or more water weight, then prior level was NOT potential TDEE, but suppressed TDEE, and your carbs stores just got topped off better.
    This new eating level may or may not be potential TDEE.
    Redo the test again.
  • TriLaura
    TriLaura Posts: 34 Member

    Sorry to ask dumb questions but I feel like I'm see-sawing between totally giving up and going back to the lower calories - which I know (deep down in my heart) is not the answer. Neither of those options are, but I'm terribly frustrated with my body. What's worse, is I realise I've done this to myself through low calories, extreme training and a general fear of gaining back weight.

    Can't add much except my encouragement. Nothing more frustrating to be doing what you think you should be doing and weight just goes up - that's been my story for the last couple of years. I don't want to jinx it, but I've been following Heybales' suggestions and I "think" I'm seeing a turn around. My thread with him is at the In Place of a Road Map group. My weight this morning was a number I hadn't seen since last November! Hang in there - there's a lot of supportive people in this group!

    Susan

    Thank you for the support. It's very reassuring to know I'm not on my own :smile:
  • TriLaura
    TriLaura Posts: 34 Member
    So you saw my description of the 2 week test, get started on the path to healing by doing the 2 week 250 test.
    And with your workout schedule, still concerned about valid weigh-in which you haven't commented on.
    Reread my description of that in last post - confirm you only do those, or if you weigh daily, tag the valid ones as only being useful.

    Heybales, I weighed in on Sunday morning. Saturday was a rest day (no exercise) and had normal sodium levels.
    So to get over this fear, your potential fast weight gain is going to be water tied to more stored carbs, which will help you perform better.

    Want to perform better?

    Accept the increase in good useful weight.

    I know my deficits are too big. I just haven't figured out how to make them smaller without me eating a ton of food.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    So to get over this fear, your potential fast weight gain is going to be water tied to more stored carbs, which will help you perform better.

    Want to perform better?

    Accept the increase in good useful weight.

    I know my deficits are too big. I just haven't figured out how to make them smaller without me eating a ton of food.
    [/quote]

    Lower your TDEE, which means workout less.

    To workout less for cardio, but still get benefit, means more interval type workouts. Which means less frequent workouts to allow recovery and repair. They are usually shorter too.
    So double whammy to less exercise calorie burn, lower TDEE, lower eating levels.