Keto and Micronutrients (vitamins and minerals)

I know about going for vegetables that grow above ground, etc. What I'm trying to find is if someone(s) has taken the time to figure out how to make the most of eating only a few netcarbs, (20-30 or so), for the purposes of getting as much needed and/or balanced micronutrients as possible.

I admit to being new to the diet, and am in the process of overhauling my meal planning. (The first week was just to check it out.) I'd like to figure out which combination of veggies will be more efficient rather than haphazardly chosen risking deficiencies.

Replies

  • pfmf
    pfmf Posts: 7
    Great question, Ann!
  • jakejacobsen
    jakejacobsen Posts: 595 Member
    Curious
  • Golightly17
    Golightly17 Posts: 347 Member
    Here's a good list of vegetables and their corresponding carb counts:

    http://lowcarbediem.com/atkins-low-carb-fruit-vegetable-list/

    My staples are dark, leafy greens that can be eaten in high volumes (1-2 net carbs, vitamins A,C, K and calcium), avocados (mostly fiber carbs, excellent source of fat and potassium), peppers (folate, C and phytonutrients). I could go on but a varied diet in low glycemic vegetables is totally possible with carbohydrate restrictions- especially considering that one subtracts the fiber content for net carb count. It can be helpful to plan your day out in MFP ahead of time to keep your carbs in check, advice I should be taking :)

    I think multivitamins are important- but not because of keto. Micronutrient gaps can easily occur in any diet, soils are less mineral rich, absorption may be an issue for some, etc.
  • kristafb
    kristafb Posts: 770 Member
    The only veggie (well technically a fruit) I make sure to eat daily is avocado. It has helped a lot with leg cramps I get at night.
  • crepes_
    crepes_ Posts: 583 Member
    Avocados and spinach are my go-tos. Absolutely nutrient dense and lower in carbs. Potassium is honestly the only one I still struggle to get. Avocado and spinach both have some, but it's much easier to get from potatoes and bananas. I supplement with Morton's Lite Salt or No Salt which are made of potassium chloride. Tastes no different than regular table salt, but it gives you a good boost.

    I pad out the rest of my veggie consumption with cauliflower, broccoli, and mushrooms. Just because I like them, not because of nutritional benefit.
  • FIT_Goat
    FIT_Goat Posts: 4,224 Member
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22444297

    Short answer: Liver is my vegetable of choice.

    Also, oysters and shellfish provide some of the others. I try and get some of those in my diet at least every other week.

    I do take a multi-vitamin as well, but it's probably unnecessary. I also will occasionally have some avocado, a salad, or whatever. But, if you're eating a variety of meats and include organ meats once in a while, you're not going to need any plants to meet your micronutrient goals. The only one that is "hard" to get is Vitamin C... but there is ample evidence that eating low carb drastically reduces your need for vitamin C. In fact, Steffanson and Anderson (who guys from the early 1900s) lived on only meat (no eggs, dairy, plant matter of any sort) for a year without developing any deficiencies at all.

    Edit: This wouldn't be "no carbs" because liver contains carbs. But, it's certainly the lowest you can get.
  • Leonidas_meets_Spartacus
    Leonidas_meets_Spartacus Posts: 6,198 Member
    I meet my Vitamin A requirement , Vitamin C requirement with leafy Veggies for most part. I used to drink juice from one lime along with water, quarter teaspoon of honey and salt if I wanted Vitamin C. Nuts are great source of minerals and Vitamins and can be easily included. If I am looking for Vitamin E, I eat 0.25 cup of sunflower seeds, which give me 82% of the daily value, If I need Magnesium I eat Pumpkin seeds.
    This is a great site for looking at what foods are dense for a particular nutrient or vitamin. I don't try to meet the requirement every day, but do include some of these nutrient dense foods.
    http://www.whfoods.com/nutrientstoc.php

    Now, do we need all the vitamins and nutrients as recommended, that is up for debate. In 1920's when the Vitamins were being discovered, Stefansson who has explored arctic with innuits checked in to an hospital and lived exclusively on meat based diet. This is my favorite paper from 1929, way before the American Heart Association started raising money, politicians and lobbyists started dictating the diets. This is probably the first documented study on ketogenic diet with detailed information on the subjects and how their bodies reacted for an year. I highly recommend reading this study if you are following a ketogenic diet.

    http://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf
  • Golightly17
    Golightly17 Posts: 347 Member
    I meet my Vitamin A requirement , Vitamin C requirement with leafy Veggies for most part. I used to drink juice from one lime along with water, quarter teaspoon of honey and salt if I wanted Vitamin C. Nuts are great source of minerals and Vitamins and can be easily included. If I am looking for Vitamin E, I eat 0.25 cup of sunflower seeds, which give me 82% of the daily value, If I need Magnesium I eat Pumpkin seeds.
    This is a great site for looking at what foods are dense for a particular nutrient or vitamin. I don't try to meet the requirement every day, but do include some of these nutrient dense foods.
    http://www.whfoods.com/nutrientstoc.php

    Now, do we need all the vitamins and nutrients as recommended, that is up for debate. In 1920's when the Vitamins were being discovered, Stefansson who has explored arctic with innuits checked in to an hospital and lived exclusively on meat based diet. This is my favorite paper from 1929, way before the American Heart Association started raising money, politicians and lobbyists started dictating the diets. This is probably the first documented study on ketogenic diet with detailed information on the subjects and how their bodies reacted for an year. I highly recommend reading this study if you are following a ketogenic diet.

    http://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf

    I agree. It's a great study and goes against the mainstream viewpoint. The only thing I would like to point out would be that the natives would have been consuming wild animals with nutrients naturally consumed for their species. Many of our animal sources are fed corn and soy.
  • FIT_Goat
    FIT_Goat Posts: 4,224 Member

    I agree. It's a great study and goes against the mainstream viewpoint. The only thing I would like to point out would be that the natives would have been consuming wild animals with nutrients naturally consumed for their species. Many of our animal sources are fed corn and soy.

    The study isn't studying natives. It is studying two men, of European descent if I recall, who lived in the United States and ate meat raised and killed there. They ate:
    The meat used included beef, Iamb, veal, pork, and chicken. The parts used were muscle, liver, kidney, brain, bone marrow, bacon, and fat.

    These certainly couldn't be considered wild animals. There's no reason to propose that their meat was any more nutritious than anything we'd find today.

    Edit: The study also notes that Anderson ate beef almost exclusively.

    Edit 2: http://freakonomics.com/2010/01/27/a-myth-of-grass-fed-beef/ provides sources, from before the study conducted by Stefansson and Anderson, that shows that fattening animals with corn was known and practiced well before this study was conducted. Which leads us to suspect that it wasn't only "grass-finished" beef that Anderson was consuming. So, there's no reason to assume that wild-game would sustain someone without deficiencies but the beef we eat today wouldn't.
  • redheadmommy
    redheadmommy Posts: 908 Member
    I meet my Vitamin A requirement , Vitamin C requirement with leafy Veggies for most part. I used to drink juice from one lime along with water, quarter teaspoon of honey and salt if I wanted Vitamin C. Nuts are great source of minerals and Vitamins and can be easily included. If I am looking for Vitamin E, I eat 0.25 cup of sunflower seeds, which give me 82% of the daily value, If I need Magnesium I eat Pumpkin seeds.
    This is a great site for looking at what foods are dense for a particular nutrient or vitamin. I don't try to meet the requirement every day, but do include some of these nutrient dense foods.
    http://www.whfoods.com/nutrientstoc.php

    Now, do we need all the vitamins and nutrients as recommended, that is up for debate. In 1920's when the Vitamins were being discovered, Stefansson who has explored arctic with innuits checked in to an hospital and lived exclusively on meat based diet. This is my favorite paper from 1929, way before the American Heart Association started raising money, politicians and lobbyists started dictating the diets. This is probably the first documented study on ketogenic diet with detailed information on the subjects and how their bodies reacted for an year. I highly recommend reading this study if you are following a ketogenic diet.

    http://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf

    I agree. It's a great study and goes against the mainstream viewpoint. The only thing I would like to point out would be that the natives would have been consuming wild animals with nutrients naturally consumed for their species. Many of our animal sources are fed corn and soy.
    ^this. Unless somebody consuming large quantity of wild or grass feed , organic animals, the micronutrient levels are not the same Plus many vitamins , best example the vitamin C, are highly degradable by heat. Liver and other organs were consumed RAW by the natives, , which preserved the high vitamin content.
    Once we cook that liver , vitamin C and many other heat sensitive vitamins are almost completely gone.

    However, if somebody consumes variety of vegetables, you do not actually need much of them.

    For example red pepper has the highest vitamin C content( even higher than citrus fruit). A 1/4 of a large red pepper has 129% RDI of Vitamin C, and it has total 2.5 carbs and 0.8 fiber. Or MFP database have it even by the ring (3" diameter,0.25" thick ring) has 0.6 total carbs, 0.2 fiber and 31% of RDI of Vitamin C. So we really talking about 3-4 pepper rings a day to meet Vitamin C requirement, which is like 1 net carb a day.
    Or for example , the best Vitamin A source is carrots ! single baby carrot has 27% RDI of Vitamin A, and has 0.8 carb. with 0.2 fiber. So again we are talking about eating 3-4 baby carrots a day = 2 net carb.

    I checked my today's diary, 46 carb, 12 fiber, so 34 net carb. ( I know that is higher than many hard core keto dieters, but I like my vegies) My Vitamin C is 351% of RDI, Vitamin A is 259%. So If I had only half of my veggies, I would be still meeting my RDI easily.

    \
  • anndelise
    anndelise Posts: 14
    Thanks ya'll for your answers and ideas and links.

    I know I need to start eating liver, especially since we have local grass-fed bison available. I just gotta kick my butt to do it. *embarrassed*

    But for the veg side, for myself, I will probably go with a modified Wahls Protocol (an approximate daily 1:1:1 ratio of leaves, sulfur-rich, colors).
    For the colors I'll use charts like the following, but redo them to not just represent color, but also net carbs, and eventually seasonal availability.

    Nutrition-Produce-Poster2-620x930.jpg

    food-color-wheel.jpg?w=610&h=461

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3vJJ86967s4/UU3Q8e1ktLI/AAAAAAAABmA/dX9aCApE3Ac/s1600/color+food+wheel.jpg

    http://marathonsweetheart.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/foodwheel.jpg



    I don't mind spending some time this week doing this because i know it'll make decisions on what to buy much easier the rest of the road.
  • Golightly17
    Golightly17 Posts: 347 Member
    My mistake, I was thinking this was the study of the inuit meat based diet which was indeed all wild.
  • FIT_Goat
    FIT_Goat Posts: 4,224 Member
    Unless somebody consuming large quantity of wild or grass feed , organic animals, the micronutrient levels are not the same Plus many vitamins , best example the vitamin C, are highly degradable by heat. Liver and other organs were consumed RAW by the natives, , which preserved the high vitamin content.
    Once we cook that liver , vitamin C and many other heat sensitive vitamins are almost completely gone.

    Source? Specifically for the first claim, that it is possible to get adequate micro-nutrients from wild game, but it is impossible to get adequate micro-nutrients from domesticated meat products. Also, have you looked into the study referenced above? These were not natives. And, the majority of their meat was cooked. The only part they were noted as having eaten raw was bone marrow. They requested raw, frozen meat but did not get it because there was no way to freeze the meat. This is especially interesting in comparison to your claim about vitamin C, because that was one of the primary focuses of this study. There was a prevailing opinion that the two men would rapidly develop scurvy (within a month, if not weeks or days) on an all meat diet. They didn't, obviously.

    Do you, perhaps, have a link to a study where scurvy did occur in people eating only fresh cooked meat?
  • Leonidas_meets_Spartacus
    Leonidas_meets_Spartacus Posts: 6,198 Member
    One thing I have realized in a ketogenic diet is more than the vitamins, its the minerals, protein and electrolytes which are key for this diet. There is no point in losing muscle if you don't get adequate protein while you eat the vitamins from plants. You need to figure out the right balance and forget what people write on the blogs, unless of course it comes from an expert who prescribes these diets to their patients.