Having trouble figuring this out
Replies
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No problem. Chilling needed though, always. Since stress can cause weight gain.
And yes indeed, isn't that incredible you can eat almost 700 more and still maintain basically.
So good test month. Changes in sodium from one weigh-in to the next can cause big changes, but eventually fat loss would still show up.
So your measurements at end of month will be interesting too.
Tag whatever weigh-in was most valid prior to starting the new program. You'll want that one to compare to weigh-in prior to going back to other one.0 -
Just putting my recent data here, I seem to be steady, if not slightly decreasing weight, the last week, although altogether I AM still up 2 pounds. My lowest weight in the last month was 128.6, I believe. And to answer your earlier question, my scale goes in 0.1 increments and if I were to stand on it and get off and stand on it again (say 3 times) I get slightly different weights each time. For example, it may say 130.3, 130.4, 130.3 etc. I try to take the average of those numbers.
5-10 129.3 2193 (pretty active day, lots of walking and weight lifting)
5-11 130.1 2104
5-12 130.7 2100 (lifting)
5-13 130.2 2103
5-14 130.7 2095
5-15 130.5 2105 (lifting)
5-16 130.5 2109
5-17 130.4 2213 (lifting and bit of extra activity)
5-18 130.3 2233 (extra activity)
Like I said, the past week has been fairly even, despite my sodium problems. Seems to ever so slowly be decreasing. So, the only thing I don't understand and it seemed to always happen in the past is that my weight will shoot up like because of lifting or sodium or what have you, but then it doesn't drop down quickly. I don't know but, at 2100 calories per day(the spreadsheet actually says 2150), it SEEMS atm that it's fairly steady. We'll see what the ToM brings. My routine seems to be settling in, I'm sore from it still the next day but not as drastic as when I first started.
I'm going to stay on this number until May 26, should be 2 weeks at supposed TDEE, then I don't know what I should be doing after that
Up? Down? Stay longer at that number? 0 -
So valid days looks like 130.4, prior 130.5, 130.7. So indeed seems to be coming down.
Good idea on getting 4 weeks out of it.
Those bounces on the scale is it trying to report 130.35 probably.
The quick rise and slow fall is glycogen stores when in a diet.
You eat more, or more carbs at least, big top off.
Then it takes a week for the exercise to slowly deplete that back to prior level.
Now if in a reasonable deficit fat is burned that whole time too, so what happens is a loss prior to big gain, and then next week it lowers to prior weight and below, showing more fat gone.
That should stop when eating at maintenance, unless you weigh morning after big cardio day, and you didn't top off carbs with meals eaten. But usually 24 hrs it's back up easily (unless low carb eating style).
If you keep losing slowly, then I'd find the valid weigh-in just prior to starting new lifting routine.
And then on the Progress tab far right, get your total gross eating from that day to a month to another valid weigh-in day.
Then plug in how much you lost, it'll suggest new TDEE based on results, and tell you what to change in the Activity calc to make it happen.
Then you can decide if you need more reset time for few more weeks or not, if you feel comfortable with food. If that slight increase holds you steady, ect.0 -
Ok, thank you This morning's weight = 129.9
How do I know when that valid "before" weigh in was? I look back and I just see these ups and downs ranging from 128.6 (low) to 130.7 (high). I don't know for sure which is valid. If I don't know what was valid, how do I proceed from there?
Also, the days before I raised my eating goal to 2100 (and thus increasing carbs) vs. now, the weight is up because of glycogen stores so hard for me to tell where a loss would be, if there is one. Is that what you meant by waiting for a month? Or should I just pick the day before I started All Pros lifting routine? Because I had switched from doing Turbo Fire all of the time (stopped middle of March) to lifting at home with Chalean Extreme (stopped beginning of May) to lifting at a gym with All Pro's lifting routine(current).0 -
Valid weigh-in to minimize known water fluctuations.
Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.
That's why my very first post in this topic pointed out a valid weigh-in day, and I've reference tagging those in your records. Because otherwise if you want to include the noise of invalid weigh-ins, you require at minimum a month, and another spreadsheet to do a trend-line from the data, and some different more difficult math to get a figure.
That's why my guess of valid weigh-ins was same day as a lifting workout, proceeded by it appeared a rest day or two.
Only thing to confirm is average sodium on the rest day, not a super bland day compared to normal, not Chinese the night before - average.
And yes I'd find one prior to starting new workout, but including the increased eating level and carbs. So it may not be a 4 weeks yet. The not being sore may be hard to know this far away, but if you were still doing those other workouts and never sore after a rest day, then you are covered.
If you started the new workout prior to eating more, still pick a valid weigh-in prior to new workout, the lower cal's for some days will work itself out.0 -
Here is where I'm at currently.
5-18 130.3 2233 cals
5-19 129.9 2097 cals
5-20 129.6 2110 cals
5-21 130.2 2096 cals
5-22 130.5 2143 cals
5-23 129.6 2113 cals
Weight seems to me like it was fairly stable (minus sodium or workout soreness) eating at maintenance. So I'm doing the scary thing and adding 250 cals a day to see what happens. I figure some of the weight gain will be muscle (I hope!) as I'm lifting heavy following All Pro's Simple Beginners. I've been doing it for about a month.
5-24 129.9 2392 cals
5-25 129.7 2346 cals
5-26 129.6 2353 cals
5-27 130.7 2448 cals
5-28 131.3 2333 cals
5-29 130.6 wil be around 2350 cals today
Those large increases are from sodium, weight lifting on 5-26 pretty hard day, and just from glycogen and stuff, right? At any rate, I've decided to stay with this calorie range until the end of June. I am very curious to see what happens and since I'm lifting heavy anyway, I'm hoping the increased calories will help with my workouts. I already feel a big difference and have had strength gains in this last month. I really FEEL great anyway
I am watching my measurements as well and in the last month, I have lost a small amount in waist and hips but my arms and thighs have increased just slightly. It could be mistakes in measuring but I'll see what happens in a month's time
I mean really, a couple of months ago I was eating 1400 calories and that was including all of my exercise calories. That might have been about 950 net calories and now I'm eating 2350 calories, netting I think about 1800 calories. I find it fascinating and a little scary to be the lab rat in this but still it is interesting I figured I was hovering at the same weight anyway (this same 129-131 pounds) on much less calories, I'm not going to really hurt anything trying all of this for a couple of months
Thanks so much for the feedback and sorting through my rambling.0 -
Excellent results and mental attitude.
Your review of the facts really helps to clarify what is possible and not possible. Eating almost 1000 more now it sounds like, and not gaining 1 lb weekly. Great work.
And indeed you should make fast progress of adding weight on the bar, and good news, when you take your deficit, you usually can retain those gains, as long as recovery time is kept, because it'll be slower in the diet.
But you also won't keep increasing nearly as fast.
But those strength gains will really help to increase your metabolism.
I really wouldn't be surprised if your weight is the same, or even with 1 lb more proving out the prior level, at the end of the test, but your bodyfat has dropped enough, your LBM has gone up enough, that your TDEE goes up even more.
And the results of this test time is exactly what you can use in that TDEE calc on the Progress tab to nail your best TDEE.
Increases can't be fat, not with mere days at only 250 more. Must be water from something.0 -
5-29 130.6 pounds 2345 cals
5-30 130.2 pounds 2438 cals
5-31 130.3 pounds 2331 cals
6-1 130.6 pounds 2414 cals
6-2 131.9 pounds 2367 cals (holy jump!)
6-3 132.5 pounds 2376 cals
6-4 132.7 pounds 2217 cals (its got me scared now
)
6-5 132.8 pounds 2327 cals
6-6 132.3 pounds will be about 2350 cals today
Such big jumps, it is so confusing to me. Anyway, I made a deal with myself before I increased my cals the extra 250 that I would see it through for about a month. I will check measurements this weekend but that's where the weight, at least, is at right now. I don't really have a great explanation for why those huge weight jumps are there.
With my schedule, I plan to continue this calorie range through June 30th. Then cut down to 1800 (that is about 350 deficit per day). After that, I'm going to cut for 4 weeks, eat at maintenance for 1 week and cut for 4 weeks, etc. I think having the weeks eating at maintenance will be rejuvinating for mind and body I sure do enjoy having the increased calories atm and it has done wonders for me in the gym.
Ultimately, I do want to do a bulk/cut cycle like bulk in autumn/winter, cut in spring. I tentatively have planned to start bulking maybe beginning November through March and then go back to a 4 week cut/1 week maintenance thing until the following winter. I am not sure about doing a bulk for that long at one stretch? I've seen people say that it's better than doing smaller bulk/cut cycles. I don't know.
The act of counting calories is easy and automatic for me. I don't mind doing it at all and my gym/workout routine is going so magnificently. I *love* doing All Pro's Simple Beginner Routine and I've seen increases already in my lifts. I am going into my 5th week and based on this week's lifts I don't think I'll have any trouble getting my targets next week for lifts. I am lifting what was my 1 set for 10 rep max at a now 2 sets for 12 reps.0 -
Interesting.
So much more than 1 lb slow gain over 2 weeks.
Prior level was not potential TDEE likely. Will be interesting to see if that weight keeps dropping in to the month.
Also curious how fast and high those increases on the bar can come - that's excellent.
Good plan for future maintenance weeks.
I might suggest something a tad different, since you are doing a reasonable deficit, and doing a great lifting workout.
Every 6th week, so good strong 5 weeks in a row, take an exercise break.
Either massive deload on the bar, or just walk during that normal exercise time. This allows you to come back stronger and really recovered. Until you experience it, you'd never imagine how well you come back.
During that week get the new TDEE for new routine, and still eat at a deficit.
Then the week after, when you come back recovered and stronger and able to really hit it hard - take a diet break.
Back to correct TDEE for that workout level, but no cut.
So now your body is stronger, making gains, and you are eating more during that week. Great improvement possible.
And that basically gives you 2 weeks with much less stress, so you can wait until 6th week out to do it.
Others reported big increases on the bar during that one week above what they had plateaued at prior.
Just a thought.
That is a long bulk session. You may want to do it by weight not time. When weight, or even better BF%, get up to certain level - then you start your cut again.
You may be able to get 2 cycles in 4 months like that.0 -
Hmm that is interesting, your suggestion. I don't know if you're familiar with All Pro's or not, but it works on a 5 week cycle. It has you lifting your 10 rep max for 2x8, 9, 10, 11, and then 12 reps. Then you increase the weights by 10% if you were able to successfully lift the 2 x12 and start the cycle over again with the 2x8, 9, 10, 11, 12 scheme. So there is a sort of deload built into the beginning of the cycle. Also, it has a Heavy/Medium/Light scheme through the week. Would that be sufficient enough of a "deload"? I could cut out the jogging during the "exercise" break week. If possible, I'd like to keep the lifting in there since it ramps back down to only 2x8 (of the new 10 rep max) for the 1st week of the cycle.
As to the other part, the long bulk/cuts. If it were a 5 month time span (Nov - Mar) that'd be 1/2 pound per week for 5 months would be about 10 pounds and not all of it being fat gains. Is that considered too much still? Or is going for 1/2 pound per week gain not enough or what people usually do? I admit that I am a complete noob in relation to bulking. I've read about it some, that's all.
So, you don't think that my 2100 that I was at recently (what the spreadsheet had estimated to be my tdee) was really my tdee? That would be interesting if it wasn't. I would definitely like to see what happens the rest of the month. I've been at 2350 for about 2 weeks now. How long should I stay at this level? I had intended to stay until June 29.0 -
I didn't recall when their deload week was, and that and no cardio but walking could be considered big recovery week.
Or do the deload and then a rest week, first week back is the really strong week.
But dropping to x 8 with higher weight from x 12 isn't really a deload and rest. Deload is usually a big % off 1RM, like 50%.
I did the x 12 drop to heavier x 8 for six weeks bulking and saw great gains, but I could tell even there my recovery was not as good as it could be. And that was split set 2 x weekly. My last increase and rep drop coincided with last days in gym, so planned it out well.
I just know most of those programs are not meant for people in a deficit with longer recovery times, not the cut workout.
10 lbs for a 200 lb person is different than for a 120 lb person, right. That's why a % of weight gained, or better % of BF increase.
Because perhaps you have great increase in LBM and not much in fat, could go longer. Or for whatever reason over holidays (I think we know the reason) the bulk is more fat.
Because your size also dictates what the reasonable deficit is to cut it back out again and how long that takes.
I'd say 2 weeks at that level is fine. Then use the last 4 weeks in that TDEE calc to adjust your numbers to result based TDEE - and go from there. But if you want 4 weeks, that is more accurate.
So 2 weeks 2100 no gain and 2 weeks 2350 say 1 lb gain.
4 wks avg 2225 - (1 lb x 3500 / 28 days) = 2100 tada
But you throw your actual numbers and results in the TDEE calc and it does it for you, may come up with something different. So the fact 2 of the weeks was maintain doesn't skew the results.
Plus it figures out what to increase in your standing service trades time to make the TDEE come out right.0 -
yes... it seems the 1750 or so is your maintenence... so take anywhere from 250-500 cals off that and you should begin to see the loss you are looking for...0
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Just thought I would update again. I don't really have a question, just keeping up with the stats in my thread. I guess I would just wonder if you think things look alright over the past few weeks. It is what should be expected?
6-6 132.3 2365 cals
6-7 132.2 2453 cals
6-8 131.7 2388 cals
6-9 131.4 2336 cals
6-10 131.8 2383 cals
6-11 132.5 2415 cals
6-12 131.9 2365 cals
6-13 132.5 2395 cals
6-14 132.2 2357 cals
6-15 131.2 2360 cals
I have the weirdest jumps up and down
It's fine, it just makes it really hard to know what the heck is going on. Overall it seems the trend is UP. My "set point" or whatever. Its again about that time of the month so that always throws a wrench into my weight numbers anyway.
I have 2 more weeks at this calorie range, going to see it through until then. Honestly, I like eating at this number and I like the way I've felt and the gains in the gym so its not all bad. I just gotta keep reminding myself that some of that (I HOPE) is muscle and not all fat.
Still all in all, I may be up a pound or so all told, MAYBE, since I started eating over maintenance. I've been at the 250 calories over deficit for 3 weeks now. My measurements are really all the same aside from the arms and thighs being up about 1/2 an inch. All of my clothes feel about the same, no real differences but then 1 pound or so, I wouldn't imagine much of a change.
Really, I just wish there was some magic device you could use that would just tell you what your maintenance calories were lol I guess from the beginning (from when I started increasing my calories to work up to maintenance) I'm up about 2 1/2 pounds, as my lowest was 128.6 way back on May 1st and I'm at 131.2 this morning. That's not bad considering I had heard some people say they went up 10-15 pounds over their climb back up? I think I read that somewhere. Anyway that was what I had in my head when I started and what I was afraid would happen 0 -
Floating around the same weight with expected water fluctuations.
Once you have a month of that daily data valid and invalid days, you can do a trend line in a spreadsheet to see what TDEE is for rolling month.
Of course some is muscle, I'm sure even if big muscles aren't tapped out, some supporting muscles likely were by the level of weight lifting. That makes further increases possible.
There is - expensive double-labeled water and the lab to process results to see what you are actually burning with all activity together. Only serious studies do that even considering the expense.
Many with gains 10-15 seem to be ones that jumped straight up to an estimated TDEE, and that was really rough estimate, likely inflated.0
