Definition of speed Work
runner475
Posts: 1,236 Member
I do not know what defines a speed work for some people but I've read a lot of people will immediately shoot down the idea and discourage people (especially in general forum) from incorporating it in their training plan.
Irrespective of what pace runner is at here are some of the definitions of speed work that as per Runner's World every runner should incorporate and no where have they mentioned that if you are running at x min/mile you should not add speed works.
http://www.runnersworld.com/the-starting-line/5-key-speed-workouts-every-new-runner-should-do?page=single
Irrespective of what pace runner is at here are some of the definitions of speed work that as per Runner's World every runner should incorporate and no where have they mentioned that if you are running at x min/mile you should not add speed works.
http://www.runnersworld.com/the-starting-line/5-key-speed-workouts-every-new-runner-should-do?page=single
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Replies
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1. Straights and Curves - This is interval training designed for beginners, like C25K. Not speedwork,
2. Gear Shifter - This is as fartlek. This is an unstructured workout consisting of different paces. Not speedwork.
3. Even Stevens - This helps dial in consistent pacing. Not speedwork.
4. The Long Run - This is a...long run or LSD (Long, Steady Distance). Not speedwork.
5. Destination run - New surroundings? Not speedwork.
Speedwork is running specific distances at specific paces which reflect a specific race pace goal. For instance, the workout I did this morning.
5x800m with a target time of 3:10, cutting down to 3:06. This repeats reflect my target pace for an upcoming 5K. Specificity.
Speedwork can also be running for a specific amount of time at a targeted pace, but again, the target pace corresponds to a race pace that you can reasonably expect to attain.
There are several reasons that I discourage these types of workouts for new(er) runners.
1. They do not have the aerobic base to support the workout.
2. The level of stress from these workouts is beyond what they are physically capable of getting through uninjured.
3. They oftentimes don't have different paces yet.
Two elements that I always suggest are a once per week tempo run and once per week strides. Both of these workouts get them running a little bit faster, but not long enough to do any damage.
ETA: Also, I've never seen anyone use a runner's pace as the barometer by which to discourage speedwork. For me, it's always been by how long they have been running and how many miles per week they are logging.0 -
Also, I've never seen anyone use a runner's pace as the barometer by which to discourage speedwork. For me, it's always been by how long they have been running and how many miles per week they are logging.
It is in today's forum. I'll PM you the link. You tell me.0 -
I just see that many people are struggling with 3 miles at a time, so what good would speed work do? I mean, how could they do a meaningful workout on the track (or wherever). 5x400 is over a mile running fast and you have to warm up so there is more mileage there too, but a person who cannot run three miles at a time or is just working to achieve that goal will probably just not get any "good" out of trying that speed workout (or they will not even be able to finish it). It just makes no sense to me.
Now...a runner who has been going a while, can do 20-30 miles a week, well that is a different story. I just see a lot of people who are trying C25k but also asking about speed.0 -
I think it's fair to say that in the example that's driven this the original question was from someone without a solid base, hence how my response was couched.
As it's in the general forums I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with the lift heavy or do HIIT responses.0 -
I just see that many people are struggling with 3 miles at a time, so what good would speed work do? I mean, how could they do a meaningful workout on the track (or wherever). 5x400 is over a mile running fast and you have to warm up so there is more mileage there too, but a person who cannot run three miles at a time or is just working to achieve that goal will probably just not get any "good" out of trying that speed workout (or they will not even be able to finish it). It just makes no sense to me.
Now...a runner who has been going a while, can do 20-30 miles a week, well that is a different story. I just see a lot of people who are trying C25k but also asking about speed.
Agreed.0 -
I think it's fair to say that in the example that's driven this the original question was from someone without a solid base, hence how my response was couched.
As it's in the general forums I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with the lift heavy or do HIIT responses.
Nope. The OP from general forum was used to running I think around 15 miles per week and ran a solid half which IMO was a good race time for 1st timer.
Poster who suggested that speed workouts are not advisable based on OP's race time shouldn't have made that call.
I think race pace SHOULD NOT be a determining factor if speed work should be included. There are lot of components that determine race day pace.0 -
I think it's fair to say that in the example that's driven this the original question was from someone without a solid base, hence how my response was couched.
As it's in the general forums I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with the lift heavy or do HIIT responses.
Nope. The OP from general forum was used to running I think around 15 miles per week and ran a solid half which IMO was a good race time for 1st timer.
Poster who suggested that speed workouts are not advisable based on OP's race time shouldn't have made that call.
I think race pace SHOULD NOT be a determining factor if speed work should be included. There are lot of components that determine race day pace.
I have to disagree here. If the OP was only running 15 miles per week that is not a significant enough base to even think of adding speedwork. Get up to 35+ miles per week and then maybe think about it. And chances are if she were doing 35+ miles per week that half time/race pace would come down significantly on it's own.0 -
I think it's fair to say that in the example that's driven this the original question was from someone without a solid base, hence how my response was couched.
As it's in the general forums I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with the lift heavy or do HIIT responses.
Nope. The OP from general forum was used to running I think around 15 miles per week and ran a solid half which IMO was a good race time for 1st timer.
Poster who suggested that speed workouts are not advisable based on OP's race time shouldn't have made that call.
I think race pace SHOULD NOT be a determining factor if speed work should be included. There are lot of components that determine race day pace.
I have to disagree here. If the OP was only running 15 miles per week that is not a significant enough base to even think of adding speedwork. Get up to 35+ miles per week and then maybe think about it. And chances are if she were doing 35+ miles per week that half time/race pace would come down significantly on it's own.
That is not the argument.I think race pace SHOULD NOT be a determining factor if speed work should be included. There are lot of components that determine race day pace. [/quote}
As everyone agrress mpw should be.0 -
I think it's fair to say that in the example that's driven this the original question was from someone without a solid base, hence how my response was couched.
As it's in the general forums I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with the lift heavy or do HIIT responses.
Nope. The OP from general forum was used to running I think around 15 miles per week and ran a solid half which IMO was a good race time for 1st timer.
Poster who suggested that speed workouts are not advisable based on OP's race time shouldn't have made that call.
I think race pace SHOULD NOT be a determining factor if speed work should be included. There are lot of components that determine race day pace.
I have to disagree here. If the OP was only running 15 miles per week that is not a significant enough base to even think of adding speedwork. Get up to 35+ miles per week and then maybe think about it. And chances are if she were doing 35+ miles per week that half time/race pace would come down significantly on it's own.
Exactly.
The difference would be if the OP was running 35 MPW consistently and ran a 2:30 Half, then speedwork would be okay. But show me the runner doing 35 MPW that can only achieve a 2:30 HM.0 -
I think it's fair to say that in the example that's driven this the original question was from someone without a solid base, hence how my response was couched.
As it's in the general forums I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with the lift heavy or do HIIT responses.
Nope. The OP from general forum was used to running I think around 15 miles per week and ran a solid half which IMO was a good race time for 1st timer.
Poster who suggested that speed workouts are not advisable based on OP's race time shouldn't have made that call.
I think race pace SHOULD NOT be a determining factor if speed work should be included. There are lot of components that determine race day pace.
I have to disagree here. If the OP was only running 15 miles per week that is not a significant enough base to even think of adding speedwork. Get up to 35+ miles per week and then maybe think about it. And chances are if she were doing 35+ miles per week that half time/race pace would come down significantly on it's own.
That is not the argument.I think race pace SHOULD NOT be a determining factor if speed work should be included. There are lot of components that determine race day pace.
As everyone agrees mpw should be.
Bad quote. Can't seem to see where the end tag is.0 -
Is that how you wanted it quoted?0
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Is that how you wanted it quoted?
Ha Ha Ha ... I don't know if even this will get quoted correctly. I think it's the wrong end slash I used.
My Bad.
Nevermind.0 -
I think it's fair to say that in the example that's driven this the original question was from someone without a solid base, hence how my response was couched.
As it's in the general forums I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with the lift heavy or do HIIT responses.
Nope. The OP from general forum was used to running I think around 15 miles per week and ran a solid half which IMO was a good race time for 1st timer.
Poster who suggested that speed workouts are not advisable based on OP's race time shouldn't have made that call.
I think race pace SHOULD NOT be a determining factor if speed work should be included. There are lot of components that determine race day pace.
Ok, let's just say it - it was me who didn't feel a 2:30 HM warranted speedwork. There. In my non-expert determination, the fact that her weeks looked like this weighed heavily:Thank you I just followed a very simple 12 week program that only told me how many miles to run and on what days for example the first week was
Monday off
Tuesday 3 miles
Wednesday off
Thursday 3 miles
Friday off
Saturday 5 miles
Sunday 2 miles
the closer to the race the more the miles with exception to the last 2 weeks where it backed off the miles a bit.
I will try what you suggested as I really want to be at 2 hours or less there is no way I could do it in the time that you did that is amazing
Maybe it's my inexperience shining through, but a 2:30 tells me one of two things: runner was managing a steady 11:30min/mi pace, which to me is not the most aerobically "capable" pace for a half (needs more mileage to build aerobic capacity), or two, runner maybe started out too fast and was walking the last parts in (or doing a run/walk, whatever), aka inexperience.
Feel free to discuss further why I'm wrong. Seriously.0 -
I think it's fair to say that in the example that's driven this the original question was from someone without a solid base, hence how my response was couched.
As it's in the general forums I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with the lift heavy or do HIIT responses.
Nope. The OP from general forum was used to running I think around 15 miles per week and ran a solid half which IMO was a good race time for 1st timer.
Poster who suggested that speed workouts are not advisable based on OP's race time shouldn't have made that call.
I think race pace SHOULD NOT be a determining factor if speed work should be included. There are lot of components that determine race day pace.
I have to disagree here. If the OP was only running 15 miles per week that is not a significant enough base to even think of adding speedwork. Get up to 35+ miles per week and then maybe think about it. And chances are if she were doing 35+ miles per week that half time/race pace would come down significantly on it's own.
Exactly.
The difference would be if the OP was running 35 MPW consistently and ran a 2:30 Half, then speedwork would be okay. But show me the runner doing 35 MPW that can only achieve a 2:30 HM.
I ran a 2:30 HM doing 50MPW. It was effing difficult
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I think it's fair to say that in the example that's driven this the original question was from someone without a solid base, hence how my response was couched.
As it's in the general forums I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with the lift heavy or do HIIT responses.
Nope. The OP from general forum was used to running I think around 15 miles per week and ran a solid half which IMO was a good race time for 1st timer.
Poster who suggested that speed workouts are not advisable based on OP's race time shouldn't have made that call.
I think race pace SHOULD NOT be a determining factor if speed work should be included. There are lot of components that determine race day pace.
Ok, let's just say it - it was me who didn't feel a 2:30 HM warranted speedwork. There. In my non-expert determination, the fact that her weeks looked like this weighed heavily:Thank you I just followed a very simple 12 week program that only told me how many miles to run and on what days for example the first week was
Monday off
Tuesday 3 miles
Wednesday off
Thursday 3 miles
Friday off
Saturday 5 miles
Sunday 2 miles
the closer to the race the more the miles with exception to the last 2 weeks where it backed off the miles a bit.
I will try what you suggested as I really want to be at 2 hours or less there is no way I could do it in the time that you did that is amazing
Maybe it's my inexperience shining through, but a 2:30 tells me one of two things: runner was managing a steady 11:30min/mi pace, which to me is not the most aerobically "capable" pace for a half (needs more mileage to build aerobic capacity), or two, runner maybe started out too fast and was walking the last parts in (or doing a run/walk, whatever), aka inexperience.
Feel free to discuss further why I'm wrong. Seriously.
I'm with you... 13 MPW don't justify speedwork. She would gain a lot of speed by just increasing her weekly mileage.
Seriously... Who runs a half on 13 MPW ?!?0 -
:laugh:I think it's fair to say that in the example that's driven this the original question was from someone without a solid base, hence how my response was couched.
As it's in the general forums I'm surprised that someone hasn't come up with the lift heavy or do HIIT responses.
Nope. The OP from general forum was used to running I think around 15 miles per week and ran a solid half which IMO was a good race time for 1st timer.
Poster who suggested that speed workouts are not advisable based on OP's race time shouldn't have made that call.
I think race pace SHOULD NOT be a determining factor if speed work should be included. There are lot of components that determine race day pace.
I have to disagree here. If the OP was only running 15 miles per week that is not a significant enough base to even think of adding speedwork. Get up to 35+ miles per week and then maybe think about it. And chances are if she were doing 35+ miles per week that half time/race pace would come down significantly on it's own.
Exactly.
The difference would be if the OP was running 35 MPW consistently and ran a 2:30 Half, then speedwork would be okay. But show me the runner doing 35 MPW that can only achieve a 2:30 HM.
I ran a 2:30 HM doing 50MPW. It was effing difficult0 -
Nope. The OP from general forum was used to running I think around 15 miles per week and ran a solid half which IMO was a good race time for 1st timer.
For me it was the I'm a new runner comment, hence asking the clarification question about what she'd done up to there.
Anyway, it took me 12 weeks to get to consistently running 5Km, never mind HM. I've only just got to HM after 14 months.0 -
OP, correct me if I'm wrong, but your original point was that you don't think one should discourage speedwork based on a runner's pace.
I think we all agree that one shouldn't discourage it solely on a runner's pace, but it is one factor that, combined with race times and training load will give us a really good indicator whether that runner is physically ready for speedwork in their program.0 -
I started to incorporate some fartleks into my Monday run of 8 or 10 miles. But I am still for the most part just trying to build my miles for my marathon in December.0
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OP, correct me if I'm wrong, but your original point was that you don't think one should discourage speedwork based on a runner's pace.
I think we all agree that one shouldn't discourage it solely on a runner's pace, but it is one factor that, combined with race times and training load will give us a really good indicator whether that runner is physically ready for speedwork in their program.
Agree 100%. I'm pretty sure when Carson says something, it's never wrong.
If someone is running 11:30 miles in a race, they don't need speed work, they need more time on their feet. Especially when they're running 15mpw. The mpw and the pace and the time as a runner probably generally all coincide. I don't know many runners that have been running half marathons for a period of years (as in training for them at 25-30mpw or more) that run 12min miles.0
