When EMWL stops working - hormonal issues? Long
wookiemouse
Posts: 290 Member
I am hoping someone here has gone through this and can offer some advice, because my body is not doing what it is supposed to anymore and I'm getting frustrated.
Background - have worked out since I can remember. I do not miss workouts, even on vacation. 5 days a week, weekends off. Always a combo of cardio and strength. Have been following EMWL for about 3 years now - it HAS worked for me. Only recently has it stopped and I am trying to figure out why.
2 summers ago, I was 140 (I am 5'7"). I was happy and on the verge of wearing a bikini for the first time in my life. I needed a little more work on my abs tho, so I kept at my cut calories and decided to clean up my diet. I didn't eat that bad - chips or ice cream now and then - so I converted to clean eating. But still logged on MFP. At the same time, I started lifting more (Cathe Friedrich's STS program, which is 3x a week for an hour - heavy weights). I had done 30-45 mins 3x a week in the past, cardio 2-5 days a week, to get to 140.
I started to sloooowly gain, but figured it was muscle mass since my clothes fit fine. By January of the following year, I was up to 145 but clothes still fit. I didn't feel like I was losing any body fat tho - no inches lost. I finished that program up and started NROLFW, with cardio 5x a week. Continued to gain that summer and fall. Upped my cardio - did Insanity coupled with NROLFW. Cut out ALL refined sugar. By this past January, I was up to 151. I felt that I was still in reach of the 140s, so all was not lost. I just committed to doing what had worked before, exercise and calorie counting.
That is where things got really screwy. I finished up NROLFW and started Body Beast. Started gaining a lb a week! My clothes were not fitting by now - I was gaining fat, could not see muscle definition anymore. I was doing weights 5x a week for 30-45 mins and cardio 5x a week for about 30 mins (either steady state or HIIT). By May, I was up to 157 lbs. I was a size 4/6 2 years ago; now my "fat" 8s won't fit. I decided to go all out in May and buckle down - an hour of cardio, an hour of weights daily. Ate 99% clean, stuck to my cut. Gained 2 LBS a week that month!!!!
Went to my PCP for bloodwork, everything came back normal. Tried sticking to cardio only. No change. Tried sticking to lifting only. No change. Dropped my calories to 1800. Only gained 1 lb that week. Dropped them to 1500. Barely gained a lb that week. By this time, I was up to 167 lbs.
This past week, I lost weight for the first time this year - by dropping my intake to 1300 calories and doing 1 hour of cardio, 1 hour of heavy lifting 5x a week. THAT IS NOT RIGHT!!!!
I calculate my calories burned with a Fitbit and a HRM. The Fitbit is linked to MFP, but not my HRM, so I don't eat back my exercise calories burned. Fitbit comes off when I work out, HRM goes on. I burn 200 cals with my lifting and 400 with my cardio according to my HRM. My heart rate never gets above 130 tho - no matter how hard I push, and I go all out. According to my Fitbit, I burn 2300-2500 a day through normal activity, which is about right since I hit 10K steps every day and don't sit down for more than an hour (other than mealtimes). So that means I am burning around 3000 cals a day. But if I eat above 1300, I gain weight!???! This makes no sense.
Medical history - my mother and grandmother both died from hypothyroidism, but my TSH levels show totally normal according to my bloodwork. I have an appointment with an endocrinologist at the end of the month, but have been scouring the internet in the meantime to find answers. I am sick of hearing "just go gluten free!" or "maybe you should try pilates!" because I KNOW that makes no sense. I should be eating at least 1000 cals more than where I'm at yet if I do, I gain like crazy. Something is seriously wrong here. This isn't about the scale - I have NO CLOTHING that fits me other than my elastic workout shorts! I can't wear that to client meetings! EMWL has totally been my "thing" and has worked wonders. What is going on?
Has anyone experienced anything like this before? I expected changes as I got older (I turn 40 in a few months), but I have been careful about diet and exercise in order to minimize that.
Background - have worked out since I can remember. I do not miss workouts, even on vacation. 5 days a week, weekends off. Always a combo of cardio and strength. Have been following EMWL for about 3 years now - it HAS worked for me. Only recently has it stopped and I am trying to figure out why.
2 summers ago, I was 140 (I am 5'7"). I was happy and on the verge of wearing a bikini for the first time in my life. I needed a little more work on my abs tho, so I kept at my cut calories and decided to clean up my diet. I didn't eat that bad - chips or ice cream now and then - so I converted to clean eating. But still logged on MFP. At the same time, I started lifting more (Cathe Friedrich's STS program, which is 3x a week for an hour - heavy weights). I had done 30-45 mins 3x a week in the past, cardio 2-5 days a week, to get to 140.
I started to sloooowly gain, but figured it was muscle mass since my clothes fit fine. By January of the following year, I was up to 145 but clothes still fit. I didn't feel like I was losing any body fat tho - no inches lost. I finished that program up and started NROLFW, with cardio 5x a week. Continued to gain that summer and fall. Upped my cardio - did Insanity coupled with NROLFW. Cut out ALL refined sugar. By this past January, I was up to 151. I felt that I was still in reach of the 140s, so all was not lost. I just committed to doing what had worked before, exercise and calorie counting.
That is where things got really screwy. I finished up NROLFW and started Body Beast. Started gaining a lb a week! My clothes were not fitting by now - I was gaining fat, could not see muscle definition anymore. I was doing weights 5x a week for 30-45 mins and cardio 5x a week for about 30 mins (either steady state or HIIT). By May, I was up to 157 lbs. I was a size 4/6 2 years ago; now my "fat" 8s won't fit. I decided to go all out in May and buckle down - an hour of cardio, an hour of weights daily. Ate 99% clean, stuck to my cut. Gained 2 LBS a week that month!!!!
Went to my PCP for bloodwork, everything came back normal. Tried sticking to cardio only. No change. Tried sticking to lifting only. No change. Dropped my calories to 1800. Only gained 1 lb that week. Dropped them to 1500. Barely gained a lb that week. By this time, I was up to 167 lbs.
This past week, I lost weight for the first time this year - by dropping my intake to 1300 calories and doing 1 hour of cardio, 1 hour of heavy lifting 5x a week. THAT IS NOT RIGHT!!!!
I calculate my calories burned with a Fitbit and a HRM. The Fitbit is linked to MFP, but not my HRM, so I don't eat back my exercise calories burned. Fitbit comes off when I work out, HRM goes on. I burn 200 cals with my lifting and 400 with my cardio according to my HRM. My heart rate never gets above 130 tho - no matter how hard I push, and I go all out. According to my Fitbit, I burn 2300-2500 a day through normal activity, which is about right since I hit 10K steps every day and don't sit down for more than an hour (other than mealtimes). So that means I am burning around 3000 cals a day. But if I eat above 1300, I gain weight!???! This makes no sense.
Medical history - my mother and grandmother both died from hypothyroidism, but my TSH levels show totally normal according to my bloodwork. I have an appointment with an endocrinologist at the end of the month, but have been scouring the internet in the meantime to find answers. I am sick of hearing "just go gluten free!" or "maybe you should try pilates!" because I KNOW that makes no sense. I should be eating at least 1000 cals more than where I'm at yet if I do, I gain like crazy. Something is seriously wrong here. This isn't about the scale - I have NO CLOTHING that fits me other than my elastic workout shorts! I can't wear that to client meetings! EMWL has totally been my "thing" and has worked wonders. What is going on?
Has anyone experienced anything like this before? I expected changes as I got older (I turn 40 in a few months), but I have been careful about diet and exercise in order to minimize that.
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Replies
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I am in the same boat.....Now only losing on 1400, absolutely clean 45%protein, 35% carbs & 20% fat.... Hormones and thyroid both tested fine,although I am definately in peri menopause... I stay the same at 1700, gaiin at 1900.....Good luck....0
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So if you reread your 2 paragraphs on the changes you made to your routine and the effects - anything stand out?
You kept doing more, and kept gaining.
You did more again, and kept gaining.
Pretty sure you were just turning your body in to one big ball of stress with that routine.
Elevated stress, elevated cortisol, elevated water retained. 10-20 lbs is possible.
During the description of the routine for that time - no mention of how much eaten.
You said following EMTWL ideal of reasonable deficit. But if you got the TDEE wrong, especially since the normal TDEE tables are based on sedentary desk job, and you are far from sedentary, you likely would have underestimated.
I'm going to bet you got your TDEE guessed wrong, badly underate, and while goal eating level may have been a specific number, you went over it often enough to cause problems.
That's just another way to gain fat.
Your solution at this point is calm the activity level down.
You keep doing more of the same thing that isn't working.
You say you tried doing just one thing - but for how long - and how did you get the calories for that time period.
HRM for weight lifting is usually badly inflated - totally wrong use of HRM and it's calculations of calories burned for lifting and HIIT or anything NON-steady state aerobic, meaning your HR is changing more often than 2-4 min of steady effort.
I'd first suggest get a simple routine, if you like the cardio and like the lifting (or closer to circuit training perhaps) - then just stick with circuit training 3 x week.
Walk ONLY on the day off.
Circuit training is great fat burning workout in a deficit, because it's strength training to retain muscles, and it burns more calories, so when you take deficit you still get to eat enough.
Though in your case, I'd suggest you already get to eat enough.
So here is a very simple test for you, to convince yourself you are still at very suppressed metabolism.
You think 1300 is maintenance, because you eat more than that you gain.
Eat 1550 daily for 2 weeks. That is 250 more than what you think maintenance is for 2 weeks.
Guess how much you should gain slowly by eating 250 more than maintenance, if it's true potential maintenance?
1 lb.
Reread that.
If you gain more or faster - guess what it MUST be?
Water weight, topping of glycogen stores with attached water.
If you were truly at potential maintenance, there would be NO stores to top off, so there would be no fast water weight gain.
This requires you use only valid weigh-ins.
Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.
Do you even have a valid day to use?
Use the normal routine you think you have the TDEE for during this time. Make it fair.
Do you weigh all the foods you eat?
Do you actually pick a single TDEE figure, or are you actually using the Fitbit with manual exercise entered to get a much better than guess of TDEE?
Have you tried the MFP method with reasonable deficit like 15% would have been, letting adjustments happen as needed?
And then after that 2 week test where I know you are going to gain more than 1 lb, proving you have been eating at suppressed maintenance, I really think you need to get your routine to something simple and let body heal.
In a deficit with slower recovery is the completely *kitten*-backwards time to attempt to demand more from your body. And I think you just proved it out.0 -
Are you low carb? Paleo? How do you define "clean" eating? There is no such thing as "clean" vs "bad/dirty" food btw, and often we do damage to our metabolism by restricting foods because they aren't "clean".0
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Sounds to me like your body is simply feeling over-stressed. Clearly, your body is not reacting well to the increased exercise and decreased calories, all of which it sees as stress. Exercise is a stress, eating at a deficit is a stress, stress is a stress!
At this point, I would start out by settling on a simple exercise program. Strength train 3 times a week, short cardio or HIIT twice a day, and two rest days a week. Keep it short and simple. I would re-figure your TDEE based on this new exercise plan and gradually start working your way back up to eating at that level. Add 100 calories a day to your diet and bump that number up each week until you hit TDEE. I would do a complete metabolic reset and eat at TDEE for a minimum of 8 - 12 weeks and really give your metabolism a break and a chance to heal again. It just sounds as though it has been suppressed and is not reacting well to the increased stress. Go back to what worked at the beginning and keep it simple....0 -
Just chiming in that I completely agree with HeyBales and AnitraSoto's posts! Too much exercise leads to exhaustion and no weight loss for me, too. I have to be careful not to overdo since I'm an exercise zealot, too. Resting and eating right (very close to accurate TDEE) always results in weight and inches lost (for me).0
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40 is exactly when I experienced unexpected rapid weight gain and it turned out to be related to estrogen dominance & adenomyosis. Get your hormones tested, especially if you've been experiencing heavier volume and/or increased cramping with your period.0
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I don't *think* 1300 is maintenance. I think it's crazy low. I should be around 2200 - which is what I was doing before this weight gain started. I never dropped below 1800 cals a day, ever. And I did mention I varied things up - I did weights only for a bit (no cardio). I did cardio only for a bit (no weights). I tried about 2 weeks of each. Kept my calories around 2000 during that time. That cut my workout time in half, at least. I was still gaining. I really don't think undereating screwed up my metabolism, I'm very Type A about logging my stuff - with a kitchen scale and measuring cups. Every day. That's why this has me baffled. The reason I'm at 1300 is because that's the highest number I've been able to be at and see weight loss occur. I tried 1500 for 2 weeks and continued to gain. Water weight? If I had just started a new routine that I had never done before, I'd buy it. But I have been lifting and doing cardio for YEARS. All of a sudden my body starts going whacko without me making any changes to my caloric intake or my workout routines? It makes no sense.
I've been under stress before and my body doesn't react to it like this. I will plateau under stress or if I undereat - not gain 1-2 lbs per week.
As for diet - I go by Tosca Reno's guidelines - if it's full of things I can't pronounce, I avoid it. Breakfast is always greek yogurt, granola and fresh berries. Lunch is usually baked oatmeal with egg whites or egg whites with a sweet potato. Dinner is usually chicken or fish with veggies. When I say I eat "clean," it means I don't eat stuff out of a box. I don't know what's in it and I don't want that in my body. I have no desire to eat it. I don't see an issue with that.
GiGiBeans - thanks for the info. Did you find a solution at least?0 -
Ok, so 2 weeks of doing a different routine, only 1 thing at a time each time.
Need about 6 weeks for the changes exercise causes to balance out. So not long enough.
Now, with working out half as much, did you redo the TDEE to eat correctly for that new level of activity?
So 2 weeks eating 1500, and you gained how much in that time?
So you see weight loss at 1300 - how much in how much time?
I referenced the math that applies.
Water weight gain and you having done cardio and lifting for years doesn't matter a squat, this has nothing to do with water weight related to retained in muscle for repair.
I'm suggesting it's totally about glycogen stores topping off with their attached water. And in fact having done cardio for years means your body is more primed for more stores.
It's a fact that when you go in to a diet, you do NOT top off those stores to their potential. You can do a lot on depleted stores, except hit potential performance in something endurance related.
Hence my 2 week test - do you feel up to it?
If not that, then I'd suggest calming down the workout, get the Fitbit and MFP sync going again, log the cardio or lifting Fitbit is badly underestimating, and eat at maintenance for several weeks.
Take the adjustments from changes in daily activity.
BUT - work your way up to those levels as Anitra also suggested - 100 extra daily for a week at a time, from the 1300 currently eating at. Once up there, adjust daily as needed.
I'd suggest keep the lifting, make the cardio walking only.
That's logged on MFP as strength training for the actual time done, on Fitbit as weight lifting power lifting unless you are doing light stuff.
What does your Fitbit say your daily burn is right now on avg?
Do you manually correct the calories for the stuff it's bad at estimating?0 -
I agree that 2 weeks time may not be enough to see the changes - but honestly, I am scared to go for a full 6 at this point. I need to stop gaining weight like this. When I cut to 1500, I was gaining a pound a week. Which at least was better than the 2 lbs a week gain I saw previously at 1800-2000 cals. I am now down 3 lbs since last Monday since I've been doing 1300-1400 cals. Too much too fast, IMO. But at least the scale isn't going up. According to my TDEE, my cut should be at 2060. That's about what I was at before I started gaining. I didn't recalculate TDEE because I wasn't eating back my exercise calories.
Fitbit is showing me averaging around 2200 a day. That's with removing the band for the 2 hours I work out. I don't enter my calories burned on Fitbit, just keep tabs on my workouts with a HRM for my own info. Prior to the weight gain, I did work out with the Fitbit on and it was pretty spot on for calories burned - usually 350-400 for a cardio session. I know it won't accurately measure strength (what does?), but as long as I was within 100-200 of my cut goal, I figured I was in good shape calorie-wise.
On the glycogen stores - I'm lost on that. I always work out on an empty stomach, so shouldn't I be expending those stores quickly by doing cardio first thing in the morning? And why did this come on so suddenly - what triggered this excessive water weight storage?0 -
Just chiming in to say 1) Heybales knows what he's talking about and 2) you look AMAZING for almost 40!
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2 week test. Eat 250 more daily than current level for 2 weeks.
1 lb of gain if prior level was TDEE.
Your last weight drop was likely some water weight again.
Not sure what you estimated your TDEE to be prior to the cut of 2060.
Would that be what you guessed your TDEE to be?
Or using the Fitbit you bought for just this purpose?
Which would mean, why not use during exercise, when you aren't going to manually correct it either? I don't understand taking it off. You not only don't want underestimated calorie count from it - you want none?
That means it's estimating sleeping BMR burn for that time - obviously wrong.
Your Fitbit is already at 2200, and that's not including what it's missing.
Your TDEE is likely around 2400 with corrections or higher.
So with 15% off, back to your 2060 about, so guessing that you do rely on the Fitbit for TDEE figures?
I'm going to suggest since you actually have no idea what your TDEE is beyond a clearly underestimated guess, and with that massive level of activity, you have not been following the EMTWL principle of having a reasonable deficit.
Glycogen stores - in the muscles. That's where the majority is, for muscle use only when intensity is too great for fat to burn, about mid-aerobic level it's 50/50 ratio, above that more carbs burned.
Liver holds about 300-400 calories worth, muscles 1100 - 1700 worth depending on type of exercise. Lifting is total carb use.
So the fact you do your cardio in fasted state, it doesn't take 30 min to get in to final carb:fat ratio that otherwise would happen.
If it's easy cardio, it's still mostly fat burned, intense than carbs.
That would just show up as bigger fluctuations on scale.
The intense training also is going to ask body to store more. So on one hand you go in to a diet, that's one thing that stops getting topped off as much to some level, muscle carb stores.
On the other hand, workout is asking body to store more for next time. But you've been doing cardio for awhile, so probably no request for more, it just isn't going to get what it wants because of diet.
If you were eating at maintenance, your meals would fill those up totally, usually within 24 hrs easy.
So a valid weigh-in day would show no fluctuations week to week eating at maintenance.
And if you ate 250 more than that potential maintenance for 2 weeks, you'd have excess food, if lifting some would go towards new muscle, rest would be fat.
But if you are at suppressed maintenance, meaning body has slowed down to match your current eating level, it also has depleted carb stores, usually decent amount. Nothing that interferes with normal short or non-intense cardio workouts, but going harder and/or longer would point out the problem (especially compared to doing same workout after a nice carb refeed).
So in this state, you finally increase calories, you finally increase carbs, body can store more finally that it's been wanting to.
Bam, almost instant water weight gain, since 500 calories of carbs stored with water weighs 1 lb.
Fat would take 2 weeks, carbs could be overnight if extra 250 was all carbs.
Now some actually get a big whoosh effect of water weight drop eating more carbs like that. Theorized to be water in fat cells, stored for when enough carbs finally come in. Some is used for that, body is happy, rest is whooshed out. Fast water weight drop. Then perhaps another water weight gain for even more stored on next day's meals.
Have you recently increased intensity level - burning more carbs?
Doing it in warmer weather, so blood volume needs to increase to aid cooling?
Extra stress in life or lack of sleep?
Some other issue such that your workout routine has now become a big bunch of stress and elevated cortisol levels, rather than beneficial spikes?0 -
This is the calculator I use for TDEE: http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/
Recommended site by EM2WL. I do 5 meals a day and aim for 40/40/20 on macros. TDEE shows to be 2575. Cut would be 2060. I rely on BOTH the calculator and the Fitbit because when I wear the Fitbit during workouts, it agrees with the calculator. I'm taking it off right now during exercise because I have it linked with MFP and I don't want to see 900 calories short on a daily basis. I was SPOT ON my cut value for a good number of years before my weight starting changing for no apparent reason. EM2WL worked great for me - until it just stopped. I didn't change my workout. I tweaked my diet to fewer processed foods but I still counted calories. There was no "guesswork" and no sudden jump into Crossfit and marathon training and eating nothing but juiced kale. I did what I always did, ate the same calories I always did, and my body started freaking out and gaining for no apparent reason. Which is why my doctor suspects a thyroid issue.
Now, the water weight would make sense if I INCREASED in carbs during that time but I actually decreased my carb intake/upped my protein considerably when I took out processed foods. My AM snack was usually grapes and pita chips with hummus, it's now a low-carb protein bar. Sometimes cereal for an afternoon snack, I now do yogurt or cottage cheese. I never paid attention to protein before that and now I aim for 1g/body weight. So carbs have actually decreased.
As for the other questions - that is why I am baffled. Nothing has changed - no stress, no change in routine, get a good 7-8 solid hours of sleep each night, and this has been occurring in all seasons, regardless of temp. My workouts did get intense in the time I did Insanity, but that was for a month only. The majority of the time I do lifting and kickboxing and it's not a source of stress at all, it's my "me time" and I enjoy it and have fun. It's probably the LEAST stressful part of my day with the kids being out of school for the summer!
My lifting varies from 30-60 minutes, depending on the routine. That includes 60-90 seconds of rest time between sets, so it's not a continuous heavy duty workout. I love it. I don't focus on what I'm burning, I like seeing my strength progress and lifting heavier than I did the month before. So it's not this workout to exhaustion. And it's also broken up - wake up, do cardio, have breakfast, play with the kids a bit, then lift. I'm not some frantic energizer bunny about all this. 0 -
That confirms it - you guessed the wrong TDEE level, too low.
The fact that it matches Fitbit - which is greatly underestimating those workouts unless you manually log a better estimate - proves it.
But you didn't log a better estimate, so the daily burn is actually higher, for some of those workouts potentially much higher.
And now you don't even wear it during that time.
Gotta ask - why are you trying to guess from 5 rough TDEE levels when you have a device designed to give you infinite levels, and though it has some shortcomings, those are easily overcome?
What's 2 weeks at this point in time?
How long have you been way slower than the math would suggest?
And those workouts would just be begging the body to increase carb stores in more muscles, go longer at higher intensity.
The fact you cut down on carbs just means more depleted levels.
Guess what happens to protein your body doesn't need? Gluconeogenesis - conversion to glucose. Now the normal process happens.
Takes more energy to do that, so of course not equal replacement calorie for calorie of carbs and protein, but unless going from one extreme to the other, it's not that great.
And with 15 lbs to go, 15% is more appropriate than 20%, but with the stress of all those workouts, I'd even suggest 10%.
That way even less stress from the diet.
But that should be 10-15% from a better estimated TDEE, which you are already underestimating.
When TDEE method stopped or prior as you were doing it, had you adjusted TDEE and deficit amount based on new weight and BMR?
And that's great that the exercise isn't a stress on the mind.
But the question is, is it too much stress on the body, while in a bigger deficit than you realize?
2 weeks - prove me wrong - gain exactly 1 lb.0 -
So what SHOULD my TDEE be if the calculator is wrong with the information I entered as I know as correct on my end? You have said Fitbit is notoriously incorrect. Where do I start my baseline BMR at then? My HRM says 400 cals burned on average from one hour of cardio. Is that correct? What should I add to that for strength? I'm totally willing to take your challenge, I will start Monday. But I want to see the numbers you're getting this from if all the data that I'm getting is "wrong."
My brain says you are 100% correct - I know what I put my body through on a daily basis and that models who want to starve themselves stupid skinny hit 1200 cals. I should be able to maintain, if not lose (albeit slowly) at a good 1000 cals over what I'm eating now. I understand math, I know a little physiology, and I know a lot about biophysics. The plan looks awesome on paper. BUT - the reality is that when I was eating at those levels, and my workouts were 1-1.5 hrs long at that point, I was gaining weight. No matter what the calculators say - my body says differently.
I will do your test. I will aim for 1550 daily, 100%. I will weigh once a week and report the results. I would like to prove you right. I would like for all of this to be an undereating issue, it's a lot cheaper than meds. One question before I start tho - with depleted carb stores as you're suggesting, should I still keep my macros at 40/40/20?0 -
Macros don't matter that much.
Being in a deficit is the reason the body never tops off those stores. Your next meal refills liver first, muscles, and whatever immediate energy needs you require since insulin turned off the fat burning. Usually there isn't enough to top them off.
Amount of deficit and type of exercise of course determines amount they are always depleted.
In theory you could of course eat say 90% carbs, but then your muscle in a deficit would waste away and you'd have less place to store it anyway. So you'd still store less carbs - sadly in that case because of less muscle to do so.
The TDEE calculator with 5 rough levels that doesn't even take in to account daily activity over sedentary can never be that correct.
Is Moderately Active with 4 hrs of walking weekly the same as 4 hrs of running fastest you can, or 4 hrs of lifting weights?
Some luck out and their daily life exactly matches the level, and the math workouts out. Majority don't.
Fitbit is underestimating daily burn outside exercise, because it assigns BMR burn to all non-moving, even awake and standing, which of course burns more. But that's still within 5% for perhaps that 1/3 of day for many folks, or even less of your active day.
The other non-step based exercise you just have to manually log as their FAQ and other sources state right out - if you want a decent estimate of daily burn.
And why use it if not for that purpose?
Best to never start at the bottom, aka BMR, but at the top. You can always adjust down from the top based on results.
But to attempt to adjust from the bottom based on results is going to make a poor situation really suck.
Because you can indeed keep cutting calories enough and you will eventually start losing. But the 20-25% suppression you can cause to obtain that can make adherence mighty chancy, and easy maintenance might unlikely.
HRM calorie burn really depends. Cheaper Polar or other model with no VO2max stat and no way to input or get it, and HRmax calculated with 220-age as default?
Likely off, actually underreported if your BMI is high, and your fitness level is too.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/774337-how-to-test-hrm-for-how-accurate-calorie-burn-is
Strength training has entry on MFP under .... Strength training. That's sets and reps, 1-3 min rests, no cardio or other stuff between making you tired and unable to lift heavy.
Fitbit calls that level Weight Lifting power lifting.
As long as you aren't counting walking warm-up or stretching time, or standing waiting for equipment for 5 min or distracted talking, it's really good estimate - based on studies using whole room calorimetry, not the gas exchange masks that are only good for cardio.
Which is what the HRM formula for calorie burn is based on too - aerobic cardio. Hence HRM is invalid for anaerobic non-steady-state lifting.
If you can discern from your steps, and know how long normal workout is - you can even go back and correct a past typical week - just to see what the daily burn with corrections is reported to be on average for whole week.
Or just do it during this 2 weeks.
Even with your workout schedule, max water gain purely from topping off carb stores is like 2-3 lbs - that would be 1000-1500 calories worth with attached water. That's a lot to be depleted, but not unheard of.
If anything more than that, there may be some sodium increases, but otherwise there may be something medical going on.
But even if thyroid, which it's main problem for folks with weight, is it makes you tired, it cuts down on that daily activity.
Even if you force yourself to the gym to burn 300 calories, it could slow you down 500 during the day with extra sleep and sitting.
It has some metabolic efficiency adaptation, but not that much from people getting RMR tests with thyroid problems prior to getting meds. RMR was correct for amount of LBM. Unless they were currently in extreme diet in which case RMR was lowered, and likely the reason for now getting thyroid issues.
Do you even have a valid weigh-in day?
Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout?0 -
I will stick with my current macros then just to make sure as to not lose muscle mass. I've got a good meal plan with those anyway, just need to add to it calorie-wise.
So, on my actual calories burned - I'm unclear as to how I'm supposed to be tracking that. It sounds like you don't care much for the Fitbit. I will log my strength training on MFP, using their "guesstimates," I got that. For cardio - should I also use MFP estimates or should I be using my HRM? I have 2 different HRMs - Scosche Rhythm and a Polar F6. Both seem to agree on calories burned, but I'm not sure if they are accurate by your standards. And how do I assess my daily calories burned from normal daily activity? Use the MFP standard of 1490? Or use the underestimating Fitbit?
As for weigh in day - Monday would probably be best. Saturday and Sunday are rest days as far as workout is concerned, but I usually have soreness on Saturday. Monday would give it an extra day to recover. Not worried about sodium, I eat the same on weekends as I do during the week.0 -
Use Fitbit, correct it when it's not the best tool for non-step based exercise.
It's a good tool for what it's intended to do. But it's not a hammer, so shouldn't be used as one.
Sync negative and positive, even though you are eating a set number, just to see where the MFP suggestion is at.
Perhaps set MFP weight loss goal to maintain, pick Lightly Active on MFP since you are that outside of exercise, and minimize adjustments.
Manually add the non-step based exercise on MFP or Fitbit, doesn't really matter, but on MFP it shows on your wall.
Whichever HRM is good to wear that you like.
I gave site link to test accuracy for the HRM.
Sounds like very valid weigh-in day.
Then just eat the set amount daily, no matter what MFP is showing. But it does make it easy to see what the potential deficit could be, if your body was really operating up at the speed the Fitbit thinks it is.
But I truly believe you can get it back up there.0 -
Week 1 stats -
Last Monday: 165.8
This morning: 163.0
So even at 1550 (and with not keeping strict count on the weekend), I'm still losing right now.
I'll keep on it this week, but I knew my BRM wasn't at 1300. But yes, you are correct.
The question remains - why was I suddenly putting on so much weight so fast, out of the blue?0 -
I look forward to being a fly on the wall for this experiment! Good luck!:)0
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Week 1 stats -
Last Monday: 165.8
This morning: 163.0
So even at 1550 (and with not keeping strict count on the weekend), I'm still losing right now.
I'll keep on it this week, but I knew my BRM wasn't at 1300. But yes, you are correct.
The question remains - why was I suddenly putting on so much weight so fast, out of the blue?
A body that has slowed itself down to adjust for lack of incoming calories, but being asked to workout a lot, is stressed.
Elevated cortisol, retained water.
You may have had that one straw that broke the camel's back. Just went over the stress the body could handle with elevating cortisol, but finally did. Either big incident, or the time and deficit amount finally added up.
Probably lost some retained water weight, probably lost more than that 2.8 actually, because I'm betting you actually have more stored in muscles too.
Same way I can drink 4 bottles of 24 oz of water on long bike ride, but still lose 8 lbs in 3 hrs. So actually I lost more than 8 lbs of water, I merely replaced some of it.0 -
Heybales clearly knows what he is talking about! I will put in my 2 cents... I burn about 4400 calories a week in exercise and I wasn't losing weight at 2300. It wasn't until I got my metabolism tested (3 times because I wanted to be sure it was right, and got he same result each tim) that I knew my RMR, TDEE, and what my calorie goal should really be...and then I started losing at about 2600. So I know this is not your situation, but, my point is, if you can, find a nutritionist to administer a hospital grade indirect calorimeter test to determine your RMR. For me, the online calculators were not anywhere near correct and my deficit was too big. IMO, weight loss is calculus, not arithmetic; the rules of arithmetic apply, but it is sometimes more complicated than addition and subtraction. Btw, when I started seeing my nutritionist, I thought it was my hormones too...0
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Thanks for the heads up. I will keep my endocrinology appointment and if they still don't find anything, I'll look into a nutritionist. I really am interested to see what I burn. I have a feeling the online calculators underestimate as well....there's no way I should be at 1550 to lose. But at least the scale is going in the right direction for a change. I'll keep this up until I hit a wall, then look into bumping my calories up again. Slowly, tho. 0
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Monday stats: 163.8 Gained almost a pound this past week.
My workouts were identical to the week before. I nailed the calorie count as I did the week before. The only difference that I could see - 3 mornings this past week, I did some construction work. Fitbit showed my step count as higher than usual on those 3 days.
So now what? I'm gaining weight at 1550. Lovely.0 -
Monday stats: 163.8 Gained almost a pound this past week.
My workouts were identical to the week before. I nailed the calorie count as I did the week before. The only difference that I could see - 3 mornings this past week, I did some construction work. Fitbit showed my step count as higher than usual on those 3 days.
So now what? I'm gaining weight at 1550. Lovely.
So lets back off the stress level.
0.8 lb gain in 7 days. If you are somehow thinking this is fat, then
0.8 x 3500 / 7 = 400 over TDEE
1550 eaten - 400 = 1150 observed TDEE
Really? So now your TDEE is 1150?
See, if there is any actual stress involved with that weight gain - you are actually going to cause yourself to gain more water weight, which is obviously all you did there in 1 week.
Sore from construction work? Not that soreness is only time you retain water in muscle for repair, but it's a sure indicator.
So you ate 1550, created an even bigger deficit than normal from potential-what-body-would-like TDEE because of extra work.
I hope you can imagine how that would be stressful on a body.
You clearly need to separate the expected water weight gains from the non-desired fat weight gains. And that's many times the benefit of a reset - get your mind straight as to what is important.
Keep up the good work, and keep going on up.0 -
No, I'm not saying my TDEE 1150. I know that's impossible, I still feel it should be around 2000. But I only did that construction work Mon-Wed. Wasn't sore from it at all. Wouldn't any DOMS have cleared up by Monday, 4 days later? And why the drastic change - a 3 lb loss one week and a 1 lb gain the following week with nearly identical circumstances? If it was extra stress due to the larger gap in intake vs output, wouldn't my weight loss have slowed down a bit - not go up on the scale?
So, if it is all water weight gain, what should I be bumping my calories up to - I'm still at 1550. 1650? 1800? Or just increase on days where I do more activity?0 -
No, I'm not saying my TDEE 1150. I know that's impossible, I still feel it should be around 2000. But I only did that construction work Mon-Wed. Wasn't sore from it at all. Wouldn't any DOMS have cleared up by Monday, 4 days later? And why the drastic change - a 3 lb loss one week and a 1 lb gain the following week with nearly identical circumstances? If it was extra stress due to the larger gap in intake vs output, wouldn't my weight loss have slowed down a bit - not go up on the scale?
So, if it is all water weight gain, what should I be bumping my calories up to - I'm still at 1550. 1650? 1800? Or just increase on days where I do more activity?
Weight loss isn't going to be linear by a long shot.
And as I already said, DOMS is a dead give away you are retaining water - but it is not required for the muscles to still be retaining water for repair. I've retained water from an unusual workout for 5 days, 7 days one time. Now, for me at those times it was also different enough I was sore as all get out, but yes to extended time.
You may not even be aware - your BMR literally changes through the month, if I recall a difference of 150-250 calories between high and low, men don't have that tweak to be aware of.
Hence the need for women to have a whole month of valid weigh-ins before anything can really be discerned from weight changes.
I don't recall if you were doing the 100 increase every week or two, or the 250 test.
1 lb in water weight is equal to 500 calories worth of carbs with attached water being stored in muscle.
I'm sure with your workouts your body has been itching to store more carbs for the cardio stuff.
Easily finally could have happened. Could have happened a little last week too - but you lost more water from other places for other reasons.
The fast up and downs doesn't make it easy to tell why or where - just the obvious fact it had to be water and can't be fat.
And unless you can get into a lab research study with all kinds of accurate physiological tests, you'll never find out.0 -
I was just doing the 250 test. So what's the fix to lose water weight? Other than simply stopping all workouts?0
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I was just doing the 250 test. So what's the fix to lose water weight? Other than simply stopping all workouts?
Drain some blood.
See, that's what has me concerned you are still mighty focused on weight, and not what the weight is and what a healthy body is - but a number on the scale that is meaningless in the scheme of things, especially in the range you are in.
Unless of course you do wear your scale on your back with current weight on it, with a sign saying what goal weight is, for all to see.
Or you are doing a weigh-in for something and want to be in lighter weight class? Arm wrestling?
Or is a time based goal? Always a mistake.
That is good beneficial desired water weight because of your selected workouts that demand improvement from the body by adding it.
To think you need to "fix" something means you still don't get this, I'm sorry if I'm reading your responses wrong, but you are saying all the right things for someone that doesn't get it yet.
Is the real issue weight, or is it actually fat where you don't want it, and you think less weight will remove just that fat that you want gone?
Is that why you desire so much exercise, because you equate exercise with fat loss somehow? or rather weight loss?0 -
I could care less if the scale says 140, 170 or 210. I have a closet full of clothes right now and only 3-4 things that fit. I own my own business, and most of these are my professional clothes. ALL of them are too tight and I don't have the budget to go out and buy everything I own again in a size or 2 larger. THAT'S my issue. Not wrestling, not time, but money and keeping my clients.
I *know* I'm healthy, and that's why I work out. I have genetics stacked against me. My dad had a heart attack at age 40, my mother and grandmother died young from heart disease brought on by hypothyroidism. I feel like I have all this going against me and it's my job as a mom to my kids to stay healthy and be there for them. I don't want them to go through what *I* did with my parents. So did I achieve my goal of being healthy? You bet. But do I have $5000 in the bank to replace designer clothes I purchased over the span of many, many years so I keep up my image with clients? Heck no.
Bottom line: I need to fit in my clothes again. I was doing fine for a good 5-6 YEARS, if not longer. Same diet, 1800-2000 cals a day, about an hour of working out. Maintained my size, maintained my health. All was good. Then BAM out of nowhere I start putting on weight. Clothes start getting tight. I get down to a few things that fit. Now I'm down to ONE pair of shorts and that's it - stuff that isn't tee shirts and workout gear, that is! I NEED to get back to where I was size-wise.
Now that that has been made clear, maybe I should rephrase my original question. Is there a solution to slowing down or reversing water weight gain? You've provided a lot of science with glycogen stores but not a lot of practical solutions that I can apply. Yes, I know my body is "doing what it needs to" and yes, I respect that. But like you said previously - something triggered this. WHAT, exactly? Because if something triggered this cycle I'm in, certainly I can undo what has been done and get back to my status quo?0 -
Now that that has been made clear, maybe I should rephrase my original question. Is there a solution to slowing down or reversing water weight gain? You've provided a lot of science with glycogen stores but not a lot of practical solutions that I can apply. Yes, I know my body is "doing what it needs to" and yes, I respect that. But like you said previously - something triggered this. WHAT, exactly? Because if something triggered this cycle I'm in, certainly I can undo what has been done and get back to my status quo?
Ok, good to know the motivation behind the intent, and the stress over the situation doesn't help either.
Not really any practical solutions could be given to a non-issue that needs no solution.
But there are things you can do.
Stop working out so hard for so long such that carbs are the main energy source.
Simple as that.
Do all your cardio in the Active Recovery HR zone, recently given the fad name "fat-burning" zone because that's what it happens to be.
Only carb sourced workouts is lifting, and that's brief intense stuff, so doesn't need to pack in more carbs.
www.calculatenow.biz/sport/heart.php?
As to what triggered it. I'm betting this, for whatever other reason you see stress.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html#more-93130
