How much fiber is "enough" in LCHF?

So, I've been thinking about fiber the past couple of days.

I have observed that when I eat "naturally" (ie - I don't force myself to eat certain things over others within the realm of LCHF), I only get about 10g of fiber, maybe. I can "force" my way up to 20g+ if I really try with the dark green vegetables, but it's not something I can sustain for any length of time (mainly because I'm not a fan of the darker leafy greens, and because eating large amounts of vegetables has always made me feel more sick than full).

That's gotten me thinking -- how much fiber do we actually need (theoretically, of course, it's "none" in the sense that we need it to live, but living and thriving are two different things)? The USDA recommends something like 25-30g as bare minimum, but is that really valid (given the USDA track record...)? What's actually considered high, and what's considered adequate? I'm sure we've all heard what's said when you eat too much/too little fiber, though it seems the same thing happens on both ends, so how do you tell which end you're on (at least for your own body)?

I've seen mixed messages on this subject, so I figured I'd bring it up here and see what people think and what they've found.

Replies

FIT_Goat

My average fiber over the last 100 days is 9.38g... and many days are close to 0g. I have no issues with constipation. Actually, I'm as regular as I have ever been.

Note: I don't know what other benefits fiber is supposed to have. But, I seem to do better when I keep it low.

AmyMS86

I'm interested in this as well, I usually only get around 10 or 12 grams.

SnowFlinga

My experience is that if you have enough fat in your diet then fiber is a non-issue. Standard fiber recommendations are for the SAD WOE. The small bit of research I've done on why fiber works doesn't make it something I strive for in my diet. Fiber actually works to "smooth things along" by actually irritating the lining of your bowels. Ugh.

ali59oc

I know I don't take in as much fiber as I did when eating more carbs. I had horrible IBS, was always constipated, took Miralax every day for it. NOW I am as regular as a clock! I drink my two glasses of water in the morning when I get up and bam! into the bathroom I go.

Dragonwolf

My experience is that if you have enough fat in your diet then fiber is a non-issue. Standard fiber recommendations are for the SAD WOE. The small bit of research I've done on why fiber works doesn't make it something I strive for in my diet. Fiber actually works to "smooth things along" by actually irritating the lining of your bowels. Ugh.

I haven't seen the irritating part, but one of the big things I've seen is that some amount of fiber is needed for gut flora health. The question, then, is -- assuming that's accurate, how much does the gut flora actually need? It seems to me that it's quite a bit less than just about any recommendation that I've seen.

I have to say, though, I do like this line from an MDA post -- "insoluble fiber-driven fecal hypertrophy." :laugh:

Leonidas_meets_Spartacus

If you eat refined foods, the dietary guidelines kinda force you to eat whole grains and fiber. I do just fine with out any fiber pills , I get my fiber once every few days with nuts and chia seeds.

Dragonwolf

If you eat refined foods, the dietary guidelines kinda force you to eat whole grains and fiber. I do just fine with out any fiber pills , I get my fiber once every few days with nuts and chia seeds.

Yeah, I'm not looking at fiber pills (I take enough pills, I don't need to add more! :laugh:), but fiber in general, namely from fruits and vegetables, and more about what's actually useful for the purported health benefits.

Any studies regarding it would be awesome, especially ones that cite actual amounts (bonus points for having one with a 0-fiber group), and especially for whole-foods based low carb/high fat diets. Most that I see are rather nebulous "more fiber." I know the cancer thing is questionable, given the cancer rates among the Inuit were effectively zero (except for some forms of lung cancer, due to using animal fats for fuel -- burning animal fat + small spaces = bad for lungs, but that's not diet-related), but I'd love to see more research on the matter for all aspects of fiber's purpose.

yarwell

http://www.drbriffa.com/2013/03/05/study-finds-dietary-fibre-is-more-likely-to-be-cause-of-rather-than-a-cure-for-constipation-and-other-bowel-symptoms/

cites http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/

Dragonwolf

http://www.drbriffa.com/2013/03/05/study-finds-dietary-fibre-is-more-likely-to-be-cause-of-rather-than-a-cure-for-constipation-and-other-bowel-symptoms/

cites http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/

Oooh, nifty! Thanks!

TwizzleBit

http://www.drbriffa.com/2013/03/05/study-finds-dietary-fibre-is-more-likely-to-be-cause-of-rather-than-a-cure-for-constipation-and-other-bowel-symptoms/

cites http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/

Yeah, the first article sums it up for me. Anything more than 15 grams a day and we'll...I'm literally *kitten* out of luck for using the facilities for a few days. Drinking water certainly doesn't help in that arena. Nor fiber pills.

When I was doing the standard calorie counting and trying to add fiber as per various recommendations....I'd pretty much eat nothing except fruits and vegetables and still not make the fiber guidelines. Talk about trying to poop out a canon ball.

Though, I've not had a 'normal' poop in years due to the various medications I take for PCOS. These days I just try to eat five servings of vegetables a day and fill in the rest with fatty, yummy, delicious protein.

Dragonwolf

http://www.drbriffa.com/2013/03/05/study-finds-dietary-fibre-is-more-likely-to-be-cause-of-rather-than-a-cure-for-constipation-and-other-bowel-symptoms/

cites http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/

Yeah, the first article sums it up for me. Anything more than 15 grams a day and we'll...I'm literally *kitten* out of luck for using the facilities for a few days. Drinking water certainly doesn't help in that arena. Nor fiber pills.

When I was doing the standard calorie counting and trying to add fiber as per various recommendations....I'd pretty much eat nothing except fruits and vegetables and still not make the fiber guidelines. Talk about trying to poop out a canon ball.

Though, I've not had a 'normal' poop in years due to the various medications I take for PCOS. These days I just try to eat five servings of vegetables a day and fill in the rest with fatty, yummy, delicious protein.

Bahaha! I know exactly how you feel on that one, I'm a fellow cyster. :laugh:

Yeah, my body (and meds) don't play well with a lot of fiber, so I've found lower amounts to work better. That's part of why I'm trying to find more information on it, because the conventional wisdom keeps going on about how good it is and more is better, and my experience has never really toed that line.

FIT_Goat

I'm a guy, so no PCOS here (I lack the equipment, lol). But, I also find that the less fiber the better. Anything much higher than 10-15g a day, and I stop up completely. The closer to zero, the easier things are for me.

TwizzleBit

I'm a guy, so no PCOS here (I lack the equipment, lol). But, I also find that the less fiber the better. Anything much higher than 10-15g a day, and I stop up completely. The closer to zero, the easier things are for me.

Maybe its just me, but I experience guilt by not eating fiber. It's an " OMG! What am I doing to my insides!?!?" type scenario. All the stories that float around about bowel (checks that she spelled bowel rather than bowl) cancer and such.

I dream about having normal bathroom habits.

The_Hungry_Atheist

I try to hit 12 a day for fiber, but I went bananas yesterday and hit 20....this morning was not kind to me in the lavatory :blushing: I am going to try and stay below 10 today to get back to comfortable.

Dragonwolf

I'm a guy, so no PCOS here (I lack the equipment, lol). But, I also find that the less fiber the better. Anything much higher than 10-15g a day, and I stop up completely. The closer to zero, the easier things are for me.

Maybe its just me, but I experience guilt by not eating fiber. It's an " OMG! What am I doing to my insides!?!?" type scenario. All the stories that float around about bowel (checks that she spelled bowel rather than bowl) cancer and such.

I dream about having normal bathroom habits.

Yeah, this is kind of my thing, too. Though there is also the whole thing of "double of a very small number is still a very small number." It still doesn't quite override the "YOU MUST EAT FIBER" mantra that's been pounded into our heads.

And Frob, be thankful for being a guy. Being female sucks in so many different ways, not the least of which being an incredibly picky endocrine system. :drinker:

kkmulholland2

I guess I'l be a fly in the ointment here and say due to some GI issues, I must maintain my fiber to AT LEAST 20g but 25g is my MFP goal. I've been getting a good portion of my fiber from things like low carb tortillas and wraps (10g, woohoo!). It also helps me feel full longer. I have a really hard time getting in enough liquid so the fiber makes me more aware of that too. Fiber - fluid = OOPS!

Also, black SOY beans (not regular black beans) are a great LCHF source. Of course, beans are good in general for fiber but they do carry a carb load. The black soy beans have been super for us!

Lastly, I'm a fan of the dark and leafy so I get fiber from that too. In fact, part of tonight's menu will be kale salad. :-)

aeb09

Thanks to the OP for making this thread and for everyone's opinion. I've worried my fiber is low but I'm regular, so I try not to worry about it. I definitely ate more when I was eating the SAD but I eat an extreme amount of spinach now so I think that helps.

deansdad101

Thanks to the OP for making this thread and for everyone's opinion. I've worried my fiber is low but I'm regular, so I try not to worry about it. I definitely ate more when I was eating the SAD but I eat an extreme amount of spinach now so I think that helps.

Hi AEB;

General rule of thumb (and based on "normal health", no other related "issues", the usual disclaimers)

1.0 -1.5 grams/KG (not pounds) of Total Body Weight.

So, for a 150 # (68kg~) individual = 68 - 102 grams per day.

Adjust as necessary if any "other" issues are a problem. Works for many/most?

In my case, the hard part is keeping it down to ~70.

The "only" function (slight exaggeration, but it is the most important to me) of fiber is that for every gram consumed, you get to deduct one gram of carbs when computing Net Carbs - fiber.....YES!!!

FIT_Goat

I would need to eat more than 70g of fiber a day. That is just way too much. Most places that have a recommendation seem to top out around 40g.

As for the net carbs, it's like mortgage interest. Yeah, mortgage interest is better than credit card interest because it is a tax deduction. But, it would be better overall to pay no interest at all. Yeah, carbs that are mostly fiber are better than carbs with no fiber, but it would be better to just not have the carbs at all.

deansdad101

I would need to eat more than 70g of fiber a day. That is just way too much. Most places that have a recommendation seem to top out around 40g.

As for the net carbs, it's like mortgage interest. Yeah, mortgage interest is better than credit card interest because it is a tax deduction. But, it would be better overall to pay no interest at all. Yeah, carbs that are mostly fiber are better than carbs with no fiber, but it would be better to just not have the carbs at all.

Frob;

You are absolutely correct......my BAD!!

Should have known better as my "number" is ~20-24.

The 1.0-1.5 x bwkg ROT was on my mind for a protein question someone else asked regarding minimizing muscle loss and apparently excess carb "brain fog" set in.

You've probably not experienced it at your age but I can assure you that much of the stuff you hear pumped about the "golden years", ain't all it's cracked up to be <VBG>

Thanks for the "catch", nothing annoys me more than incorrect info posted by anyone, but when it's me that's as bad as it gets.

At least you caught it, it gets corrected, and I thank you for that.

FIT_Goat

What's funny is that I was thinking it gave me numbers really close to my protein goals, when I read it and plugged my own weight in. I have read on mfp where people aimed for really high fiber goals (mostly vegetarian folks) so 70g didn't seem completely outside the range some would recommend. Lol

branbuds

This is an excellent question and I have been worried about my fiber intake. Over the years, I have made a conscious effort to eat high fiber (often through cereal - hence my user name).

Now I am eating a LCHF diet and not eating the cereal and grains that I used to eat. Through vegetables, nuts, and a bit of fruit, I am probably eating between 10g and 15 g of fiber. Pardon me but...my "result" in the bathroom has been excellent (just as they always recommend when eating a high fiber diet)!

So... the Mayo Clinic explains that the benefits of a high fiber diet are:

1) Normalize bowel movements - But my bowel movements are normal on LCHF (much better than on SAD)
2) Helps maintain bowel health (helps prevent hemorrhoids and small pouches) - my understanding is that these things are caused by straining when constipated, but as I have I said, on LCHF I am not constipated.
3) Lowers cholesterol levels
4) Helps control blood sugar levels
5) Aids in achieving healthy weight - This is the goal of all of us on mfp. The fiber is supposed to fill you up so you eat less. But a lot of people on LCHF diet find that eating the fat and protein keeps them from being hungry and they eat less (and achieve weight loss). Also, if you achieve a healthy weight then #3 and #4 will be byproducts of the weight loss quite often.

So, after thinking about it that way, I think that I will worry less about my fiber intake. What fiber I eat through the veges, nuts and fruit seem to be enough!

Thoughts?

skittle316

You don't "need" fiber, it's indigestible. It just helps get rid of bacteria and fat in our guts, and doesn't cause a spike in blood sugar.
Drink lots of water, it's more important.