ketones vs glucose levels
momnmb
Posts: 4
I've been doing keto for about a month and started measuring my glucose and ketones (blood). At first my glucose was 75 -85 and ketones were low. (sometimes no reading) Now I am up to about 1.1-1.4 ketones but my glucose seems to be hovering around 95-101. Does any one know how ketone levels should be affecting my glucose? I thought they would go down as my ketones went up? I want to know because I am insulin resistant and expect to get better a keeping glucose levels down.I check in the morning after getting up.
8/6 k=1.4 g=99
8/5 k=1.1 g=101
8/3 k=1.4 g=100
8/2 k k=1.1
8/1 k=1.4 g=93
7/31 k=1.4
7/27 k=1.1 g=91
7/26 g=92
7/25 g=74
7/24 g=94
7/23g=92
7.20 g=83 k=.8
7/18 g=77 k=1.1
7/15 g=78k=1
7/13 k=.7
7/11 k=.5
7/7 k=.4 g=84
As an aside I noticed almost immediately that my fat places began itching. Anyone else getting that? It itches so bad that I bruise myself without knowing it. It seems to be a symptom of the fat loss. (At least that is what I tell myself as I scratch!:laugh: :laugh: :blushing: )
8/6 k=1.4 g=99
8/5 k=1.1 g=101
8/3 k=1.4 g=100
8/2 k k=1.1
8/1 k=1.4 g=93
7/31 k=1.4
7/27 k=1.1 g=91
7/26 g=92
7/25 g=74
7/24 g=94
7/23g=92
7.20 g=83 k=.8
7/18 g=77 k=1.1
7/15 g=78k=1
7/13 k=.7
7/11 k=.5
7/7 k=.4 g=84
As an aside I noticed almost immediately that my fat places began itching. Anyone else getting that? It itches so bad that I bruise myself without knowing it. It seems to be a symptom of the fat loss. (At least that is what I tell myself as I scratch!:laugh: :laugh: :blushing: )
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I checked my logs and my blood ketones have gone as high as 5.9 at one time but I did a fat fast that day and it was a PM reading (always higher, you are correct to check first thing in the mornings). I am a type 2 diabetic and I don't see any unusually higher glucose levels than normal with blood ketones averaging around 1.5-3.0. I gained control of my diabetes and got off of 12 years of metformin in the last 7 months by doing lchf and low carb in general. I would just keep an eye on it and give it more time because a month is not much for results when you are doing keto. If your initial readings were 75-85 why are you considered insulin resistant? Those are great numbers unless you were already controlling with diet or medication...
This is sort of an indirect answer to your question if you read to the answer given: http://paleohacks.com/questions/216984/estimating-blood-ketone-levels-from-blood-glucose.html
My own results correlate with the answer given.
Itching: here is a MFP discussion on that topic http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/228631-itchy-skin-when-losing-weight0 -
Are you trying to lose weight (restricting calories)? I do, and after 3 weeks of ketosis my fasting blood sugar is fairly constant around 100, while BHB is around 2. I remember Phinney/Volek saying something about the biomarkers (triglycerides specifically) being out of whack in some people while they're losing weight, and then normalizing once they get closer to their optimal weight and body composition.
Interestingly, when I eat some carbs in the evening the blood sugar will normalize to around 80 in the morning. For the time being I will stay in ketosis, because I really want to explore what happens after 2-3 months of consistent ketosis. But maybe the ideal strategy for me is to eat some carbs in the evening. That would be post workout, and as little as 50-100 grams. Enough to knock me out of ketosis for just a few hours.0 -
Thank you for the links.
This is what confuses me. I started making adjustments just before July 4th. I didn't start measuring until almost a week later. I felt best around 75. But now I am tired, slightly headachy and slightly body achy even with ketone levels over 1. I can't seem to get the glucose that low again. I expected that by drastic carb reduction my glucose would naturally lower to where my body operated best, which according to how I felt would be around 75. However, aside from the short period of 70's readings I have been in the 90's. Maybe I don't understand the science behind this diet as well as I thought I did.
I used to be hypoglycemic before being diagnosed as pre diabetic several years ago. It seems like an oxymoron but doc said my body is super reactive to insulins and glucose, both too high and too low. This has made me curious and slightly paranoid about hunger/insulin behavior.0 -
My fasting glucose in the morning is high, but in the evening it's lower. It could also be a spike after waking up due to cortisol.
Personally I won't care too much - as long as my blood sugar is in the normal range, that's fine. Of course it would be cool if it was in the low-normal range consistently, but as long as I feel fine, I don't care.
Some of your symptoms sound like you eat too little sodium - did you look into that?0 -
My fasting glucose in the morning is high, but in the evening it's lower. It could also be a spike after waking up due to cortisol.
Personally I won't care too much - as long as my blood sugar is in the normal range, that's fine. Of course it would be cool if it was in the low-normal range consistently, but as long as I feel fine, I don't care.
Some of your symptoms sound like you eat too little sodium - did you look into that?
Yes, I agree on the sodium!
I use Celtic sea salt which is great for trace minerals and is grayish green in color. It tastes MUCH better than store junk in the cartons that is highly chemically processed to the point of no goodness left. Put a pinch in some water, swirl and drink. I always know that I am low on sodium if I feel my heart pounding lightly and my energy is low. I am not a "salt" person and so I have to pay attention to salt foods enough. You will know very quickly if that was the problem.
Also, remember that hydration is super important in ketosis as the state of being requires more water and sodium than normal due to increased excretion. Thirst can make you headachy, hungry and sluggish. I ALWAYS drink a big glass of water and wait 5 minutes before I do anything else like pop medication, eat or nap. 95% of the time, it fixes the problem. Experiment on the salt varieties; I keep several colorful ones around because they all have their own individual flavor signature:
Celtic Sea Salt-my favorite
Himalayan Pink
Hawaiian Red
Hawaiian Black
French Gray-similar to Celtic
They are all readily available and usually in bulk. I put them in pretty jars and have them by the cooktop.0 -
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't eating too much protein cause glycogenesis?Couldn't that cause higher blood sugar levels?0
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Hmmm... did not know that sodium could affect glucose. I have been adding Himalayan pink salt ground in a pepper grinder (my cheap costco grinder broke). It grinds large so it is very tasty. I will try adding to water. I thought I was getting enough since I am not getting cramps. I also take a potassium and magnesium supplement- though not everyday.
And I strive for over 2 liters of water a day.0 -
Hmmm... did not know that sodium could affect glucose. I have been adding Himalayan pink salt ground in a pepper grinder (my cheap costco grinder broke). It grinds large so it is very tasty. I will try adding to water. I thought I was getting enough since I am not getting cramps. I also take a potassium and magnesium supplement- though not everyday.
And I strive for over 2 liters of water a day.
No, I was referring to this (and I am pretty sure Mike was too) : " But now I am tired, slightly headachy and slightly body achy ..." The sodium affects how you feel and could indeed cause the fatigue, headache and aches you are experiencing. Sodium should not cause an effect with glucose levels.0 -
Yes, I agree on the sodium!
I use Celtic sea salt which is great for trace minerals and is grayish green in color. It tastes MUCH better than store junk in the cartons that is highly chemically processed to the point of no goodness left. Put a pinch in some water, swirl and drink. I always know that I am low on sodium if I feel my heart pounding lightly and my energy is low. I am not a "salt" person and so I have to pay attention to salt foods enough. You will know very quickly if that was the problem.
Also, remember that hydration is super important in ketosis as the state of being requires more water and sodium than normal due to increased excretion. Thirst can make you headachy, hungry and sluggish. I ALWAYS drink a big glass of water and wait 5 minutes before I do anything else like pop medication, eat or nap. 95% of the time, it fixes the problem. Experiment on the salt varieties; I keep several colorful ones around because they all have their own individual flavor signature:
Celtic Sea Salt-my favorite
Himalayan Pink
Hawaiian Red
Hawaiian Black
French Gray-similar to Celtic
They are all readily available and usually in bulk. I put them in pretty jars and have them by the cooktop.
Those salts have been analyzed - they contain very little other trace minerals than sodium. I would agree that they look cool and have the aura of being nutritious (what Brian Wansink calls "health halo"). The processed salt is not necessarily less nutritious - you will have to eat real food in any case to get enough potassium, magnesium etc..
The bottom line: Sodium is what we get from salt. ;-)0 -
I have been doing daily fasting blood ketone and glucose readings and I can see absolutely no correlation between the 2 at all. Ketones have been 1.5-3.0 for 3 months now and glucose is 4.2-5.9 mmol/l (75-106). The readings above 5.5 (99) do seem to correlate with a lower ketone reading sometimes. But I notice that poor/ inadequate sleep has a much more profound effect. I am below 15 carbs everyday (I don't do the net carb equation, a carb is a carb is a carb).0
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Yes, I agree on the sodium!
I use Celtic sea salt which is great for trace minerals and is grayish green in color. It tastes MUCH better than store junk in the cartons that is highly chemically processed to the point of no goodness left. Put a pinch in some water, swirl and drink. I always know that I am low on sodium if I feel my heart pounding lightly and my energy is low. I am not a "salt" person and so I have to pay attention to salt foods enough. You will know very quickly if that was the problem.
Also, remember that hydration is super important in ketosis as the state of being requires more water and sodium than normal due to increased excretion. Thirst can make you headachy, hungry and sluggish. I ALWAYS drink a big glass of water and wait 5 minutes before I do anything else like pop medication, eat or nap. 95% of the time, it fixes the problem. Experiment on the salt varieties; I keep several colorful ones around because they all have their own individual flavor signature:
Celtic Sea Salt-my favorite
Himalayan Pink
Hawaiian Red
Hawaiian Black
French Gray-similar to Celtic
They are all readily available and usually in bulk. I put them in pretty jars and have them by the cooktop.
Those salts have been analyzed - they contain very little other trace minerals than sodium. I would agree that they look cool and have the aura of being nutritious (what Brian Wansink calls "health halo"). The processed salt is not necessarily less nutritious - you will have to eat real food in any case to get enough potassium, magnesium etc..
The bottom line: Sodium is what we get from salt. ;-)
Maybe so but the conventional salt is tasteless in comparison unless you get Kosher. It also has anti-clumping agents that I don't want to consume. Here is an article from the Mayo Clinic for the heck of it:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/sea-salt/faq-200585120 -
I am out of the Ketone strips for now,but i do feel the ketosis by itchy fat, and headachy flu like feelings in the morning. I cheated last Friday and was back to these symptoms by Sunday. But even during the weekend I was still around 100+. I think my body just doesn't like using insulin. I feel like I just need a very small (less protein) dinner and more movement before bed which might help get the glucose down. Last nite i tested 110 before bed and 104 in the AM. I am also paying more attention to adding salt to my food. I have my pink salt in a pepper grinder which is a rougher grind giving a stronger salt flavor. I love it.0
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Yes, moving such as a nice after dinner walk will burn off the postprandial glucose that you have and then you can happily burn fat all night! Just don't do it too close to sleeping or it can rev you up.0
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II am below 15 carbs everyday (I don't do the net carb equation, a carb is a carb is a carb).
A fiber carb is a net carb to our metabolism like a stone is a block of wood for the camp fire.
Sincerely, please think about what you said there for a minute.0 -
Use Google Chrome and install the MFP apps for graphing, etc...one gives you a pie chart and figures your net carbs so you don't have to do the math0
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@ momnmb
I would give anything to have glucose numbers like that! Those are PERFECT! Why would you want to try to do better than that? I am a long time type diabetic (10+ years) on Glipizide, metformin, two types of insulin. I weigh 314 lbs. I am happy if my numbers are in the 100's. In other words, I don't take meds if I get a reading of 195. When I wasn't on a Keto or lo cal diet, after eating a piece of pie, it wasn't uncommon for my glucose to hit 400. It would take a minimum of 50-60 units of insulin and hours to get under 200 glucose. I'm hoping that the keto diet I just started can bring my numbers down to mid or lower 100's.1
