What are your thoughts on a Lifting Program change?
engian
Posts: 70 Member
Sara and SS,
I've been following the beginner program of Starting Strength since January 2014. I've made some progress, though not as much as I would have liked.
Here are stats on my primary lifts:
Lift............................Jan 2014......June 2014
Low Bar Squat..............85................145
Dead Lift.......................95................205
Bench Press.................85................150
Over Head Press..........55..................80
I lift on a 3 day/week routine. While I really like (love!) the lifting, this summer has been a weight room version of 'Groundhog Day'. I make some progress, then something interferes with my routine (kids, home, work/travel, illness, etc.), I fall back and start over again. I basically reach the same prior peak level and then something again occurs and sends me sliding backwards. And I always feel whooped. I used to have a fair amount of energy to outdoor things during the summer. This year I've been so tired from the workouts that I just don't get nearly as much done as I had in summers before.
I've been eating at a slight calorie surplus, having gained about 5 lbs since January. I can clearly see I've got a little more insulation (i.e. fat) on me and around my waist, but also see I've added muscle mass to my legs and abdomen.
I'm past the point of adding even just 5 lbs per workout to any of my lifts. Sometimes it is weeks between adding weights to a given lift. While I feel that might technically mean I should be looking at something like a periodized routine...my lift levels sure don't suggest that.
I haven't bought either of the following yet, but am considering them:
1. Practical Programming for Strength Training, M. Rippetoe, A. Baker
2. 5/3/1: The Simplest and Most Effective Training System for Raw Strength, J. Wendler
What are your thoughts or recommendations?
If you look at my log you'll see my total caloric goal is set to 2100 kcals/day. I just lowered it following a hamstring injury (weekend warrior volleyball at family picnic). I had been at 2300 kcals/day.
Elia
I've been following the beginner program of Starting Strength since January 2014. I've made some progress, though not as much as I would have liked.
Here are stats on my primary lifts:
Lift............................Jan 2014......June 2014
Low Bar Squat..............85................145
Dead Lift.......................95................205
Bench Press.................85................150
Over Head Press..........55..................80
I lift on a 3 day/week routine. While I really like (love!) the lifting, this summer has been a weight room version of 'Groundhog Day'. I make some progress, then something interferes with my routine (kids, home, work/travel, illness, etc.), I fall back and start over again. I basically reach the same prior peak level and then something again occurs and sends me sliding backwards. And I always feel whooped. I used to have a fair amount of energy to outdoor things during the summer. This year I've been so tired from the workouts that I just don't get nearly as much done as I had in summers before.
I've been eating at a slight calorie surplus, having gained about 5 lbs since January. I can clearly see I've got a little more insulation (i.e. fat) on me and around my waist, but also see I've added muscle mass to my legs and abdomen.
I'm past the point of adding even just 5 lbs per workout to any of my lifts. Sometimes it is weeks between adding weights to a given lift. While I feel that might technically mean I should be looking at something like a periodized routine...my lift levels sure don't suggest that.
I haven't bought either of the following yet, but am considering them:
1. Practical Programming for Strength Training, M. Rippetoe, A. Baker
2. 5/3/1: The Simplest and Most Effective Training System for Raw Strength, J. Wendler
What are your thoughts or recommendations?
If you look at my log you'll see my total caloric goal is set to 2100 kcals/day. I just lowered it following a hamstring injury (weekend warrior volleyball at family picnic). I had been at 2300 kcals/day.
Elia
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Replies
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for what it's worth your progress so far looks pretty good to me.0
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for what it's worth your progress so far looks pretty good to me.
^^ Agreed ^^
SS should have a deload procedure that you apply when you reach a point of stalling on a given lift. Since I don't run the program myself I'd hate to misquote the exact deload method (pretty sure it would be something like if you miss a lift X number of sessions you reduce the load by 10% and ramp back up), so if you do have Rippetoe's book I'd check what it says for the deloading and give that a shot.
Alternatively you could look at something like Madcow/Texas Method as an in between step to 5/3/1.
I'd also look at the lifestyle factors too -- you mention that things come up that send you backwards. This will send you back in any program honestly. IMO.0 -
SS, Hendrix7,
Thanks for the feedback. As I'm trudging along sometimes stepping back to assess progress is a good thing - with almost no experience I don't always know if I'm reasonably making progress. SS - you are so right - the life stuff will effect whatever program I'm running. I'm hoping my workouts can settle into a regular schedule now that the kids are back in school.
I looked through my Starting Strength (3rd ed) book but couldn't find a thing on deloading. I have read online reviews of Practical Programing and it was said that it addresses deloads so I think I'll pick up a copy to check it out.
I've heard of MADCOW but haven't looked into it and am not quite sure what it is all about. I read something about it being posted years ago by an anonymous member of some long ago powerlifting forum....the poster thought to be one of the extremely respdcted powerlifting coaches of the time...
Thanks,
Elia0 -
Madcow has similarities to SS/SL but the intensity varies throughout the week and rather than straight sets accross, you ramp up to a top set.
http://stronglifts.com/wp-content/uploads/stronglifts-madcow-5x5.zip0 -
While I feel that might technically mean I should be looking at something like a periodized routine...my lift levels sure don't suggest that.
I think with terms like Novice/Intermediate/Advanced being used to describe lifters, people can often get this idea that they need to be lifting a certain amount before they can qualify for an 'intermediate' program, which isn't the case.
Regardless of strength level, a novice lifter is one who can add weight from workout to workout, an intermediate can add weight weekly-fortnightly and more advanced lifters over a longer timescale. Your level of advancement is determined by your ability to recover, not your strength level. Now ideally what would happen is that as a new lifter you'd run SS for a period of 3-4 months, and put 240lbs on your squat but that's a best case scenario that often doesn't take a real life with a job and kids and bad nights sleep and being 52 etc into account - after all the primary demographic for Starting Strength is off season teenage athletes.
If you aren't able to add weight to the bar week to week, you're not a novice lifter anymore! Time to look at something different otherwise you'll just end up spinning your wheels. Your best options are probably the Texas Method or Madcow. I favour the Texas Method having tried both, but have a look at both and see what you think. If you find that you're not meshing well with either then take a look at 5/3/1.
Final note - make sure you're lifting with correct form, maybe post some videos in the form check thread, as poor form can bleed lb's right out of your lifts.0 -
SS, n3ver3nder,
Thank you both. I'm reading up on all of the mentioned programs: 5-3-1, continued SS through Practical Programming, MADCOW, and the Texas Method now.
I'll post some form videos once I get back in the gym. I had a slight setback - a level 2 hamstring strain about 10 days ago and am working though PT now. Total bummer. It gives me LOTS of time to read up.
Elia0 -
Regardless of strength level, a novice lifter is one who can add weight from workout to workout, an intermediate can add weight weekly-fortnightly and more advanced lifters over a longer timescale. Your level of advancement is determined by your ability to recover, not your strength level.
That's not a great definition either, because there are many factors that affect recovery and progression on a strength training program. Not least of which is caloric intake. Since a lot of people are in a deficit on this site, they may stall in an aggressive novice program like SL 5x5, when in fact, they are very much a novice lifter. In my opinion, it's necessary to bulk in order to run SL 5x5 to it's full benefit. One reason I like Jason Blaha's Novice Program over SL 5x5 is he actually tells people what to change when they are cutting.0 -
You've gotten some good advice, I just wanted to add that your progress is pretty great. You've basically doubled all of your lifts in what, 5 months? That is insane.
In comparison, I've added about 20lbs to my OHP in about a year. And I'm a large male almost 20 years younger than you. It's just the way it is, there are diminishing returns on lifts. Consistency is unfortunately a crucial element. I find if I take a week off I can usually maintain. If I take two weeks off I start going backwards. Which is fine, I don't let anything stop me from training really. Just a vacation or two a year which never exceeds a week anyway. So it works for me, but obviously it's going to be a problem for you.
Keep up the good work
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