Water Fasting & My Glucose Levels ~ I'm Diabetic
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DittoDan
Posts: 1,850 Member
I am 15 days into the Keto diet. I am adjusting my macros as I learn more. Pre-LCHF, I took the following meds:
10mg Glipizide 2x day
850 mg Metformin 2x day
Novalog at meals (usually 40-60 units)
Solastar @ bedtime (50 units)
I decided to do a water fast Friday, I am still on it now (Saturday morning). The only thing I am ingesting during this fast is:
Magnesium Citrate supplement
Water (about 8-12 cups @ day)
Probiotics
I am a wanna be engineer, so I like doing things by testing. I wanted to see what my blood sugars would do. So I purposed to check them 3-5 times a day during this fast.
In the 80's I read a book on how beneficial fasting is for the body. And recently, pre-LCHF, I did more research on the web about fasting. About 9 years ago, I did a four day water fast for religious reasons (Christian). I consider a Keto diet, perfect for segueing into a water fast and an excellent way to "break the fast".
Since I weigh 305 Ibs, I have plenty of fat/fuel to consume during the fast. And I want to lose weight. I plan to do it for as long as I can. I realize that I could get weak or extremely tired. So I will end the fast at that time.
Yes, I am hungry, but its manageable. Pre-LCHF, I am on a path to get bariatric surgery. After you get the surgery, you will not eat food for a few days, and when you do eat, it will be soft foods and very low calories. That's how you lose a LOT of weight after bariatrics. This goes on for weeks. You can't eat much because your stomach was cut in half and you have to give it time to heal. Then, when you can eat, it ain't much. Maybe about a fistful of any food is all you can hold down.
So my reasoning for the fast is this: Why not fast NOW and get the weight off quickly? Because pre-LCHF, I was on the path to get Bariatrics, in which I will be on a long fast after getting the surgery, so why not do it now --- without the pain of major surgery. Hmmmm, let me think about it, I think I'll skip the surgical pain.
Boy, am I rambling on!
Ok, so here are my glucose levels. (I haven't eaten since Thursday night at 8ish or 9ish) (Not taking any Diabetic meds as of Thursday night):
Thurs 8:58 pm = 165
Friday 8:11 am = 114
Friday 1:30 pm = 131 (after 13 minutes slow walking ~ exercise)
Friday 5:40 pm = 103
Friday 9:20 pm = 112
Sat. 10:30 am = 134
For me this is wonderful. Pre-LCHF I could numbers up to 400 on occasion, and 300 regularly. Anytime I would get below 200, I was go-to-go and happy.
But the numbers still seem high. I would think I would be in the normal range (72 to 90) by now?
I feel fine. I going out now. I hope this helps any of my diabetic friends out there.
Dan the Man from Michigan
10mg Glipizide 2x day
850 mg Metformin 2x day
Novalog at meals (usually 40-60 units)
Solastar @ bedtime (50 units)
I decided to do a water fast Friday, I am still on it now (Saturday morning). The only thing I am ingesting during this fast is:
Magnesium Citrate supplement
Water (about 8-12 cups @ day)
Probiotics
I am a wanna be engineer, so I like doing things by testing. I wanted to see what my blood sugars would do. So I purposed to check them 3-5 times a day during this fast.
In the 80's I read a book on how beneficial fasting is for the body. And recently, pre-LCHF, I did more research on the web about fasting. About 9 years ago, I did a four day water fast for religious reasons (Christian). I consider a Keto diet, perfect for segueing into a water fast and an excellent way to "break the fast".
Since I weigh 305 Ibs, I have plenty of fat/fuel to consume during the fast. And I want to lose weight. I plan to do it for as long as I can. I realize that I could get weak or extremely tired. So I will end the fast at that time.
Yes, I am hungry, but its manageable. Pre-LCHF, I am on a path to get bariatric surgery. After you get the surgery, you will not eat food for a few days, and when you do eat, it will be soft foods and very low calories. That's how you lose a LOT of weight after bariatrics. This goes on for weeks. You can't eat much because your stomach was cut in half and you have to give it time to heal. Then, when you can eat, it ain't much. Maybe about a fistful of any food is all you can hold down.
So my reasoning for the fast is this: Why not fast NOW and get the weight off quickly? Because pre-LCHF, I was on the path to get Bariatrics, in which I will be on a long fast after getting the surgery, so why not do it now --- without the pain of major surgery. Hmmmm, let me think about it, I think I'll skip the surgical pain.
Boy, am I rambling on!
Ok, so here are my glucose levels. (I haven't eaten since Thursday night at 8ish or 9ish) (Not taking any Diabetic meds as of Thursday night):
Thurs 8:58 pm = 165
Friday 8:11 am = 114
Friday 1:30 pm = 131 (after 13 minutes slow walking ~ exercise)
Friday 5:40 pm = 103
Friday 9:20 pm = 112
Sat. 10:30 am = 134
For me this is wonderful. Pre-LCHF I could numbers up to 400 on occasion, and 300 regularly. Anytime I would get below 200, I was go-to-go and happy.
But the numbers still seem high. I would think I would be in the normal range (72 to 90) by now?
I feel fine. I going out now. I hope this helps any of my diabetic friends out there.
Dan the Man from Michigan
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Replies
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When it comes to biology or anything scientific I have to say I am not the go to person. However, I read somewhere your body will pump out more insulin to make up for the lack of glucose you are giving your body so your numbers will be not as expected. Not sure how that works. LOL
Something my doctor told me when I was on metformin when I was expecting huge drops in my glucose level and when I was feeling extremely fatigued.....was that my body has been functioning at high glucose levels for a very long time, that I had to give my body time to adjust to the healthier glucose readings and give my body time to adjust to function on a normal glucose reading than on such a high glucose reading.
This is just what I know from my personal experience I can't back it up with studies or science. I was on metformin 500mg twice a day. He removed the metformin after 8 months of consistent lower A1C results (from an 8.4 to 5.3).
Be careful. Sounds like you are doing a lot of experimenting with your body. You are 15 days into keto, give your body the opportunity to get adapted to that change, which is huge on its own.0 -
I don't have diabetes.
I do intermittent fasting (eating window) on the alternate days I eat (up days).
I eat on Sun/Mon/Wed/Fri and fast Tue/Thu/Sat.
I started with an eating window and quickly went from that to alternate day fasting secondary to the health information I learned regarding fasting. Now I know I will incorporate some form of fasting even when in maintenance.
On my the first post of my blog (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/PatchEFog) I have links to several fasting types under the "Fasting" category of my links. I use a combination of JUDDD and 5:2 Fast Diet to calculate my weekly calories. I started with the guidelines for intermittent fasting by Dr. Lara, and still take the recommended supplements (except the fiber).
There is also a really great lecture series (including one on fasting) by Dr. Fung under the "Nutritional Information" category of my links. It would take some time to go through the series, but I think it's well worth it.
My father is 83. In the last few months, he has followed my direction to go keto. I directed him to these books to get him started:
Gary Taubes: "Why We Get Fat"
Dr. Berntein: Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution a Complete Guide to Achieving Normal Blood Sugars
Dr. Phinney & Dr. Volek: The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living
I also introduced him to Dr. Eric Westman and the Duke Lifestyle Medical Clinic's eating plan - which is essentially Atkins, and counts total carbs, not net.
Dad doesn't fast, but he does maintain an intermittent fasting eating window. He has managed to decrease and eliminate his metformin over the course of this last month. He took things slowly with the diet first, then eased off the metformin with his doctor's assistance (though his doctor is both low carb and keto hostile). Dad is extremely happy to report 89 mg/dl blood glucose readings. He is eating to his meter and adjusting things accordingly. He's hopeful that this might help him retard and/or reverse some of his peripheral neuropathy he has suffered from for the last several years.0 -
@PatchEfog
<Dad is extremely happy to report 89 mg/dl blood glucose readings>
WOW! that's wonderful! I love all the info you write. Knowledge is power and I thank everyone on this list for empowering me.
I will look at the website and glean what I can. But alas, I am needing to do chores now.
Thank you for your blog link, I will look at it tonight. I have to clean out the fridge and get rid of a lot of carbs....
Dan the Man0 -
@ Latina...
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I'm sorry, but the engineering in me wants to experiment, so that I can have my personal reactions to the things I do. My next test (after fasting) is to see if I am affected by Splenda. On the internet, some diabetics/people can handle it and some can't. I will test myself to see what happens.
The main reason for fasting is that I want to lose weight asap, just to see if I can avoid going under the knife through Bariatric surgery. I am convinced that a Keto diet is doable for me because of all those that have gone on before me and their testimonies. Another reason I want to get the weight off fast, is that I can the start exercising. Now if I try exercising, I get injured because of my great weight, and inflammations of my joints.
Dan the Man0 -
@ Latina...
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I'm sorry, but the engineering in me wants to experiment, so that I can have my personal reactions to the things I do. My next test (after fasting) is to see if I am affected by Splenda. On the internet, some diabetics/people can handle it and some can't. I will test myself to see what happens.
The main reason for fasting is that I want to lose weight asap, just to see if I can avoid going under the knife through Bariatric surgery. I am convinced that a Keto diet is doable for me because of all those that have gone on before me and their testimonies. Another reason I want to get the weight off fast, is that I can the start exercising. Now if I try exercising, I get injured because of my great weight, and inflammations of my joints.
Dan the Man
I'm T2D & IF did nothing but raise my BG's :grumble: I've tried multiple times but I'm guessing the stress was too much for me. Then again, as a woman, there are plenty of stupid things that can happen, that result in an increase in normally stable numbers -____-
However, as you are early on in your experiments (of which, I promise, there will be many more
) my comment is in relation to Splenda.
Powdered sugar substitutes often contain maltodextrin to keep the powder granular & from rocking up into a wafery little brick. If in your experiments you try the stuff in packets, vs liquid sucralose, expect variation. This includes sugar free Jello, crystal light packets etc.
Packet-ed Splenda raises me, liquid sucralose like EzSweets (brand name) do nothing to my BG.
Good luck in your experiments, bloodsugar101.com has lots of great info that can give you a leg up figuring things out when your results don't quite match your expectations.
Do expect that it's not all science, there's an art to it that is specific to the subject. Recognize your personal patterns & break the code :drinker:0 -
Thanks again Hookilau! I will go to that website and check it out...
I only have Splenda in packets. Sometimes I like to put a little on my strawberries.
Keep up the good work...
Daniel0 -
DittoDan,
I have done several water fasts and found that although I lost weight I always put it back on. I did it because of water retention problems not diabetes. I used to fast for 1-3 days and then started to do longer fasts. My last one lasted 3 weeks and although I lost 28 lbs in that time, I gave myself acute kidney failure from dehydration. This is what prompted my switch from low-carb, high protein to keto. My kidneys recovered but I will not fast again.
I was diabetic for 10 years, uncontrollable even taking insulin. I was advised to have a gastric bypass and did not want that. I started Atkins - the induction phase is ketogenic - and stopped all medication except 500 mg metformin within 2 weeks. After 2 more months I stopped that too. Even though I have gained back half of the weight I lost and have other health issues, my BG is still normal. Fasting BG was 70 when tested on Monday.
In my experience, the best way to avoid bariatric surgery is to lose weight with a ketogenic diet and to exercise daily.
Fasting may work for you. It did not for me, but we each process things differently.
Best wishes0 -
I decided to do a water fast Friday, I am still on it now (Saturday morning). The only thing I am ingesting during this fast is:
Magnesium Citrate supplement
Water (about 8-12 cups @ day)
Probiotics
Hello, DittoDan and congrats
on taking charge of your health!
As a 'wanna be Engineer', I imagine
you're already aware of the importance
of electrolytes in Keto and general
heart and diabetic health.
For the benefit of others here, plugging
this string into your favorite search
engine will show more critical effects
of electrolyte balance:
"LCHF" APPETITE ELECTROLYTES SODIUM MAGNESIUM POTASSIUM CALCIUM
Enjoying your enthusiasm!
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@ToadQueen,
Thanks for the info. I want to ask a dumb question. If you would of drunk additional water during your 28 day fast, would you still of been dehydrated? Or how many cups a day were you drinking, so I can make sure to drink more?
Pre-LCHF diet, I drank maybe 4 cups @ day. When I started LCHC (16 days ago) I bumped that up to 8 @ day. Since I started the fast I bumped it up to 10-12 cups a day. I am also eating some salt to boot. And Magnesium Citrate.
I'm sorry to hear you gain some of your weight back. I guess to figure it out, we'd have to study what you ate post fast...
Thank you,
Dan the Man0 -
@ tq33702,
I forgot in my original post to state that I was eating salt. But, I wasn't taking potassium. I am glad you reminded me. I have Morton's Lite Salt, which has a little more potassium than sodium. I'll start eating now....
I love salt. Before I heard about LCHF diets, I would take Lawry's Season Salt (no msg), pour it into a cap, and during the day at work, I would wet the tip of my finger and dip it into the salt and eat it. I love salt so much, that I asked my Endocrinologist if there was something wrong with any of my glands that would make me crave it so much. He didn't know of anything. Yes, I did Google it, and there a really weird condition that makes you crave it, but when I read of the other symptoms, it wasn't even close.
I love the fact that a LCHF diet requires more salt. I think the Medical establishment got it wrong with salt as they got it wrong with fat.
Thank you for your concern...
Dan the man from Michigan0 -
update on my fasting:
Thurs 8:58 pm = 165
Friday 8:11 am = 114
Friday 1:30 pm = 131 (after 13 minutes slow walking ~ exercise)
Friday 5:40 pm = 103
Friday 9:20 pm = 112
Sat. 10:30 am = 134
Sat. 7:10 pm = 129
Sun. 9:00 am = 146 <???
Sun. 8:40 pm = 113
I feel great today. I'll probably end the fast tomorrow morning, if I feel like it. Its particularly hard to fast when your at work. And when you are reading all the yummy LCHF recipes.
Dan the Man0 -
Hi Dan the Man,
I was drinking water when I was thirsty but not taking any supplements during my fasts. I was also taking a diuretic (Lasix) during my most recent 3-week fast. I was never thirsty. I think the problem was an electrolyte imbalance more than lack of water. I have a really bad water retention problem and my extracellular fluid was greater than my intracellular fluid when I was tested using BIA (Bioeletrical Impedence Analysis). It is supposed to be the other way around.
I would also be careful about potassium depletion. If you start feeling weird spasms in your hands or fingers, you may be low on potassium. I like that your salt has some in it.
I broke my fast with a nutritionist's guidance and ate LC - the GAPS diet protocol. Boiled chicken with fresh herbs, egg yolks, ghee, sunflower lecithin, olive oil and fish. I do not think it is the food I was eating. I just have painful inflammation and the water retention stuff. Sometimes, I give up and eat carbs. I also gained weight while on thyroid medication.
Enough about me. I am so thrilled to read your numbers and that you are feeling great!!! How are your fingers feeling with all that testing?
Are you familiar with T-TAPP? - google it. There is an easy excercise that immediately lowers blood sugar after testing. That is what is reported and it worked for me. It lowered my sugars by 30 every time I did it after eating.
All the best - TQ0 -
@ Toad
I checked out the T-Tapp, looked like she must of been a cheerleader in her high school.
I ended my fast today. I might make this a routine.
The diabetes pricking I do on the last digit of one finger. I do it there because it bleeds really well. It hurts worse pricking than the insulin injection. Of which I am not needing. I am taking one Metformin. My blood sugar went to a whopping 185 two hours after lunch and I didn't eat hardly any carbs.
Dan the Man0 -
Update on my fasting:
Fast started:
Thurs 8:58 pm = 165
Friday 8:11 am = 114
Friday 1:30 pm = 131 (after 13 minutes slow walking ~ exercise)
Friday 5:40 pm = 103
Friday 9:20 pm = 112
Sat. 10:30 am = 134
Sat. 7:10 pm = 129
Sun. 9:00 am = 146 <???
Sun. 8:40 pm = 113
Mon. 8:03 am = 134
Mon. 12:07 pm = 136
Fast ended. Ate lunch
Mon. 4:47 = 1850 -
Dan the Man,
The spike may have been caused by a couple of things. You could have been burning fat which released stored glucose or your body released too much glucose in reaction to your eating again and just needs to stabilize. Maybe something else altogether.
I remember that I could never predict what my blood glucose levels would be by what I ate. For some reason drinking alcohol lowered it which is contrary to everything I read about it.
Many people have great success with intermittent fasting for weight loss and diabetes control. You just have to find the right mix for you and change it up enough to not be bored and give up. Long fasts are really boring.
I am so thrilled that you are no longer needing to inject insulin. It is really a pain and inhibits weight loss.
How are your levels today? How much metformin are you taking?
TQ0
