Morality for Atheists
T1DCarnivoreRunner
Posts: 11,502 Member
I got into a discussion yesterday with a christian who felt like his beliefs should be made into laws, and that there should be stiff penalties for those who do not follow such beliefs. I disagreed of course, and reminded him about the first amendment in the U.S.
But he then went on to claim that it didn't matter which religion one followed, they would all hold certain moralities in common (there is one in particular that I know is not factually correct). I explained that he was wrong and asked him further about what about those who do not believe a religion at all (he did not know at this point in the conversation yet that I'm atheist). He argued that it is not possible... that everyone has to believe in something and that it is just a matter of "defining" religion. OK... I guess he got me there - if one decides to make his own definition of religion that intentionally excludes the possibility of being atheist; then it is not possible, within that particular definition of religion, to be atheist. This guy was closed minded, no doubt.
So then that brings up the issue of morality for Atheists. Obviously I do not have a "bible" to follow. I feel like I should be fair and compassionate, not do things that harm others (which is why murder would be immoral), yet also allow for things that do not harm others (so if someone wants to smoke marijuana, and does not drive afterward, then who cares?).
I really do not feel like I'm off-base here... it is entirely possible for someone who is atheist to have a moral framework to live by, even if not promoted by a religious organization.
But he then went on to claim that it didn't matter which religion one followed, they would all hold certain moralities in common (there is one in particular that I know is not factually correct). I explained that he was wrong and asked him further about what about those who do not believe a religion at all (he did not know at this point in the conversation yet that I'm atheist). He argued that it is not possible... that everyone has to believe in something and that it is just a matter of "defining" religion. OK... I guess he got me there - if one decides to make his own definition of religion that intentionally excludes the possibility of being atheist; then it is not possible, within that particular definition of religion, to be atheist. This guy was closed minded, no doubt.
So then that brings up the issue of morality for Atheists. Obviously I do not have a "bible" to follow. I feel like I should be fair and compassionate, not do things that harm others (which is why murder would be immoral), yet also allow for things that do not harm others (so if someone wants to smoke marijuana, and does not drive afterward, then who cares?).
I really do not feel like I'm off-base here... it is entirely possible for someone who is atheist to have a moral framework to live by, even if not promoted by a religious organization.
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Personally, I think the golden rule, which is mentioned in various forms by many religions, yet not unique to them, is a sufficient basic moral foundation. Of course, life is a bit more complicated. There are times when the rights of an individual should be overridden by the greater good of others, and the long term consequences of an action.
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Let's say someone is really religious. And by religious, I mean adhering in some form to a particular holy book and striving to follow its teachings. Every holy book advocates all kinds of horribly immoral acts that are illegal today: murder, rape, incest, child abuse, child brides, polygamy, slavery, etc. People conveniently (and rightly) ignore these parts. Why? Because they are using their own moral compass to determine which parts to follow and which should correctly be ignored or dismissed. Proof that morality does not come from a deity or religion - in fact, those sources can be demonstrated to be blatantly immoral - it comes from the humans interpreting them.1
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I have never understood how people can argue that we need religion to teach us morals. I should not steal from someone because I know that it is inherently wrong and I would not want someone to steal from me (agree with Golden Rule above). That thought process does not require religion. I should not need the consequence of "not getting into heaven" to prevent me from immoral acts. I should be civilized enough without the promise of heaven to live a good life on Earth.2
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Well said! Some things we shoul know are inherently wrong.0
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The only morals I need: "Don't be a dick"0
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I follow the "don't be a dick" rule, as well. I'm no different as an atheist than I was as a Christian. I followed the rules unless they were just ridiculous, but that's not often where I am. I don't speed. I don't drink and drive. I don't murder people or anything involving anyone else's body without their permission. I don't understand the idea that we all have to have some belief in something to be moral. Morals don't necessarily come from religion. And if they did happen to come from the Christian God, I'd be concerned...I mean...have you seen that guy's record?
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^ Correct... and your avatar is amazing.0
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Why, thank you.
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"You don't need religion to have morals. If you can't determine right from wrong then you lack empathy, not religion."
Not sure who said that, but its awesome.2 -
+1.... good one.0
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I personally find it funny that Christians claim to be the morally superior ones. They commit good deeds because they are afraid that their god is going to punish them for all eternity if they don't. As an atheist, I have no one holding a metaphorical gun to my head when I commit a good deed. I do it because I genuinely feel it's the right thing to do.
Call me crazy, but I don't believe that religious people are the moral ones in our society.2 -
Of course we can. Morality can be flexible, and religion never had dibs on it. When it comes to social animals like us, there are few exceptions to things like rape, theft and murder. Living in tribes we had to form some kind of accepted behavior and draw the line at immediate threats to tribal/communal living. The good/evil duality is a very recent idea.
Morality is evolutionary and necessary for group survival. Same reason we developed lying.1 -
I don't think religion has much to do with morality.2
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It is well known that any group of people will have a set of morals that pertains to their group.
You see it in companies, amongst friends, schools etc. Religion is simple not a re-requisite for that to develop.
Religion claims to be about morality too, but then goes on to carry out all kinds of horrible things to others in the name of that religion.1 -
When you consider that God could have commanded anything he wanted – Anything! The Ten Commandments have to rank as one of the great missed moral opportunities of all time. How different history would have been had he clearly and unmistakably forbade war, tyranny, taking over other people’s countries, slavery, exploitation of workers, cruelty to children, wife-beating, stoning, treating women or anyone as chattel or inferior beings
Katha Pollitt
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When you consider that God could have commanded anything he wanted – Anything! The Ten Commandments have to rank as one of the great missed moral opportunities of all time. How different history would have been had he clearly and unmistakably forbade war, tyranny, taking over other people’s countries, slavery, exploitation of workers, cruelty to children, wife-beating, stoning, treating women or anyone as chattel or inferior beings
Katha Pollitt
Of course, it all depends on which 10 commandments you are talking about. Realize there are 2 different sets in the bible, the first one ending with not cooking an animal in either it's mothers milk or it's mothers blood. I always want to see someone try to put the first set up outside a courthouse.1
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