Hello All! New to this!
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jordy1129
Posts: 7
Hello everyone, name's Jordy. I'm brand new to the primal way of eating. I am transitioning from being a vegan (felt horrible, no energy) to trying out the primal diet, to see if it works for me. I have endometriosis, and there has been some evidence that a healthy primal diet could help. I would absolutely love some friends to help start this journey! Also, anyone have any advice for someone just starting out? For the first few weeks I won't be perfect, because I'm easing into the meat addition due to being a vegetarian for four years and a vegan for one.
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Please, please read this: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-eat-meat-transitioning-away-from-vegetarianism/#axzz3RMDXjugK
Go slow.
Also, when possible within your budget, source all your animals. Find farms with high standards that raise their animals with the highest care. For example, we purchase a side of beef annually from a small farmer. He handles around 25-40 cattle a year for sale. His land has ample space for the heard and a fresh water stream that's part of a fresh water tributary. Ample grass to graze and he trains the cattle to how to go to an area and into the a mock up of where the slaughter will happen. He has an USDA/FDA approved travel slaughter truck that will come on the days of slaughter for one head. The animals goes happily, gets its usual treat of alfalfa in the truck and that's it. None of the other animals are around and have no clue. No stress, the farmer is with the animal from birth to end. I've been there for all of this and was quite taken by how calm the animal and everyone involved were, but our household takes an unusual amount of involvement in our food sources. We visit farms for all the food stuffs we purchase (animal/vegetable) and make sure they are up to an acceptable standard. Think biodynamic farming.
We also have farms for our chickens, ducks, lamb, pork, etc. We also visit the set ups of people who make various fermented foods for us. Like I said, we're involved.
If you cannot afford to purchase whole animals, visit farmers markets. Get to know the purveyors, what their practices are like and what items you can get from them. I tend to be less concerned about the organic label than most, and I'm more concerned with what a farms practices are. Besides, organic means less today than it did years ago.
One final note, just to help. The various food animals entered a covenant with humans. The deal was we'll feed you and you'll allow us to procreate and pass along our genes to future generation without going extinct. Another part of the deal was, we'll do this but you'll take care of us. Sadly, during the last hundred years we've broken this last part of the deal badly with CAFO farming. But, you can avoid this part by finding farmers that follow the original deal. Better yet, find farms that go beyond this deal. They're out there.
Best of luck.0 -
Thank you. No seriously, thank you so much! That post was pretty fantastic! I went veg for ethical reasons, so all of my meat will be ethically sourced, and humanly treated. I'm very lucky that my close friend has been eating the primal way for a few years now and has a small collection of local farms he goes to for his meat. I have picked up some grass fed beef from my local store that says it is humanly raised, and while I think it's nice, I do want to buy from an actual farm.0
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Welcome jordy. I agree with everything punchgut said. The quality of food is all important. There is nothing unethical about eating animals (wild or respectfully farmed) and based on the experiences of many past vegans who have published their experiences, I am certain it is NOT healthy for the human body.
Yup, go slow. Don't fear those healthy animals fats and also get some bone broth and organ meat re-introduced. Fermented food as well.
I don't know if money is an issue, but there are ways to eat high quality foods and still be within a budget. Some of the healthiest animals foods are also the cheapest. As punchgut said, "be involved". You don't need to start out perfect but just move forward and keep researching solutions.0 -
Welcome Jordy! You have already received some great advice. Don't be afraid of any setbacks you may have in your journey.0
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Thank you. No seriously, thank you so much! That post was pretty fantastic! I went veg for ethical reasons, so all of my meat will be ethically sourced, and humanly treated. I'm very lucky that my close friend has been eating the primal way for a few years now and has a small collection of local farms he goes to for his meat. I have picked up some grass fed beef from my local store that says it is humanly raised, and while I think it's nice, I do want to buy from an actual farm.
^No problem and glad to help. Like I said, go slow. Just start with small portions of meat that you remember really liking. Build up over time. It makes it easier.
Ironically, vegan/vegetarianism is doing a lot to harm farming. Animals play a huge role in soil/land health. Especially ruminant animals. They play a huge part in the mineral/nutrient cycle that is so important for healthy land mass. Also, the large land use shift happening in agriculture is stripping all of the top soil. Wheat, corn, soy and other legumes are extremely hard on soil. Back when farming practiced crop rotations, incorporate proper animals and various other aspects of farming the soil used to stay healthy. Now, not so much. I haven't verified this, but a source I generally trust mentioned that there is about 50 years of viable top soil left in the US.
If you ever get to visit a top notch biodynamic farm, do go and tour it. It's amazing to see how every aspect of the farm is there to support every other aspect of the farm. The cows eat the grass on the low lands and then move higher to keep an eye out for predators, their pooping higher up allows for nutrients to wash down due to precipitation. For the low land poop, they have chickens that move through the field (also pooping) aerating the field allowing for seed planting and nutrient absorption. Where vegetable are grown, they have chickens that go through eating the bugs (works better than pesticides) and they also practice planting in a way that the plants protect each other. Also, the chickens lay their eggs here, so they get harvested with the plant. Whey from cheese production is fed to the pigs. The pigs are involved in producing a superior dung pile that is used to fertilize the land in crop rotation. It's a gigantic circle. I've been to a few of these and it's amazing. Even more amazing is you can go to them year after year and their food stays leap years above the rest. Sadly, the closest thing to that I have where I live now will not sell me a whole animal. They sell pieces at farmers markets, but most goes for their onsite restaurant. I get some good stuff from them from time to time, though.
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Akimajuktuq wrote: »Welcome jordy. I agree with everything punchgut said. The quality of food is all important. There is nothing unethical about eating animals (wild or respectfully farmed) and based on the experiences of many past vegans who have published their experiences, I am certain it is NOT healthy for the human body.
Yup, go slow. Don't fear those healthy animals fats and also get some bone broth and organ meat re-introduced. Fermented food as well.
I don't know if money is an issue, but there are ways to eat high quality foods and still be within a budget. Some of the healthiest animals foods are also the cheapest. As punchgut said, "be involved". You don't need to start out perfect but just move forward and keep researching solutions.
I started adding in fats just yesterday and already feel much better. I ate a whole food, plant based diet with no added fats, and I averaged anywhere from 10-20 grams a day and was ALWAYS hungry. Just from adding in bits of dairy and healthy oils, I feel so much better! It's nice to not be always hungry.
Money is a slight issue, because I am trying to make it through college on a minimum wage job. But I've looked around, and animal products aren't much more expensive than the magic potions I bought to bolster my health. (Mainly supplements for my b12 and calcium which were wayy low.
What organ meats are the easiest to start with? Even when I ate SAD, I never ever had organ meats.
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Agriculture in absence of the animals is a fail, as we are seeing in our modern society. Monocultures that have to be sprayed with petrochemical fertilizers (or industrial sludge!) and pesticides and sick animals confined in tiny spaces... all a fail for the health of humans and the environment. Studying the politics of agriculture and "food" production is helpful in understanding where it has all gone wrong, and often, by intentional design. Convincing large numbers of people that eating animals is "bad" is all part of the design as well, unfortunately.0
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What organ meats are the easiest to start with? Even when I ate SAD, I never ever had organ meats.
Start with a liver pates or mousse. It's always easier than jumping straight into organs. Especially if you're not used to cooking and handling them. I like the Alexian duck liver mousse with cognac. Tasty! But you can find chicken liver, etc. around. It's a great stepping stone.
But again, try not to rush. Start slow and build up.
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The problem with our modern diet isn't just what we eat, it's also what we DON'T eat. Yup, organs take some time to reintroduce including working on how one thinks about them. Try, try, and try again. Be VERY hungry when trying a new food; that always helps me. And don't over-cook. Even in Paleo circles I run into people that hate organ meats, refuse to try them, discourage others from trying them etc. It's a real travesty because of all historic human diets and all the many differences amongst them, one of the things in common with ALL of them is the preferential consumption of organs.
I haven't found a chicken liver recipe that I love. Yet. But I do love grass fed beef liver (or liver from wild animals) fried up in bacon grease with onion. Cook until the pink is just barely gone (or not) but NO further. I am always working to expand my food horizons and yes, sometimes I force myself for my own greater good.0 -
What organ meats are the easiest to start with? Even when I ate SAD, I never ever had organ meats.
Start with a liver pates or mousse. It's always easier than jumping straight into organs. Especially if you're not used to cooking and handling them. I like the Alexian duck liver mousse with cognac. Tasty! But you can find chicken liver, etc. around. It's a great stepping stone.
But again, try not to rush. Start slow and build up.
Great suggestion, thank you! My plan is to spend about a month just adding back animal foods and getting used to them again, and then going full tilt and adding in paleo goodies that are a bit over my level currently (organs, tongue, the "unique" cuts of meat" When I ate SAD it was always boneless, skinless meat, because bones and skin grossed my mom out, so we have never really kept them in the house. So it's going to be a bit of a journey to get really primal.
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Thank you. No seriously, thank you so much! That post was pretty fantastic! I went veg for ethical reasons, so all of my meat will be ethically sourced, and humanly treated. I'm very lucky that my close friend has been eating the primal way for a few years now and has a small collection of local farms he goes to for his meat. I have picked up some grass fed beef from my local store that says it is humanly raised, and while I think it's nice, I do want to buy from an actual farm.
^No problem and glad to help. Like I said, go slow. Just start with small portions of meat that you remember really liking. Build up over time. It makes it easier.
Ironically, vegan/vegetarianism is doing a lot to harm farming. Animals play a huge role in soil/land health. Especially ruminant animals. They play a huge part in the mineral/nutrient cycle that is so important for healthy land mass. Also, the large land use shift happening in agriculture is stripping all of the top soil. Wheat, corn, soy and other legumes are extremely hard on soil. Back when farming practiced crop rotations, incorporate proper animals and various other aspects of farming the soil used to stay healthy. Now, not so much. I haven't verified this, but a source I generally trust mentioned that there is about 50 years of viable top soil left in the US.
If you ever get to visit a top notch biodynamic farm, do go and tour it. It's amazing to see how every aspect of the farm is there to support every other aspect of the farm. The cows eat the grass on the low lands and then move higher to keep an eye out for predators, their pooping higher up allows for nutrients to wash down due to precipitation. For the low land poop, they have chickens that move through the field (also pooping) aerating the field allowing for seed planting and nutrient absorption. Where vegetable are grown, they have chickens that go through eating the bugs (works better than pesticides) and they also practice planting in a way that the plants protect each other. Also, the chickens lay their eggs here, so they get harvested with the plant. Whey from cheese production is fed to the pigs. The pigs are involved in producing a superior dung pile that is used to fertilize the land in crop rotation. It's a gigantic circle. I've been to a few of these and it's amazing. Even more amazing is you can go to them year after year and their food stays leap years above the rest. Sadly, the closest thing to that I have where I live now will not sell me a whole animal. They sell pieces at farmers markets, but most goes for their onsite restaurant. I get some good stuff from them from time to time, though.
That is one of the reasons I decided to add meat back in. Being a vegetarian doesn't mean you are saving animals, or your health for that matter. I thought if I was eating organic veggies then I was doing my part for the planet, but after some research I realize it's not that simple. I'm thinking about getting a deep freezer so I can order whole animals (there is a local farm) but I'm a bit nervous about cutting up an animal myself. Again, I've never even had meat on the bone, so I dunno how well I'd do with a whole animal looking at me.0 -
Jody, I can totally relate! I was vegan for 9 years and the last year and a half was low fat ( not even avocados or nuts no less oil) after seeing a lecture with dr. Essylstein. I had crazy craving! There was a while there I was even following 80/10/10. Weight was up and down 25lbs from bingeing and juice fasting. Looking back I can see how this wouldn't be good but you tend to find articles and books to support whatever path you are on. I started Paleo middle of December with no limits or macronutrient ratios on anything that was Paleo. Started really slowly with a piece of fish every couple of days and some nuts and avocado. Then added chicken and now after a couple of months have added all forms of meat. I feel way better! Was having problems with tendon issues which I fist attributed to age and sports injuries but after me knee, then my Achilles and finall trigger thumb, I realized my vegan diet was missing something. After having to wrap my knee for 2 years that pain is all gone?..wooHoo! Achellis tendon is almost better after being in pain and having to limit activity for 6 months and thumb is on the mend.0
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That is one of the reasons I decided to add meat back in. Being a vegetarian doesn't mean you are saving animals, or your health for that matter. I thought if I was eating organic veggies then I was doing my part for the planet, but after some research I realize it's not that simple. I'm thinking about getting a deep freezer so I can order whole animals (there is a local farm) but I'm a bit nervous about cutting up an animal myself. Again, I've never even had meat on the bone, so I dunno how well I'd do with a whole animal looking at me.
Any farmer you purchase your animal from will send it to a butcher. All you have to be concerned about is how you want things cut up, and the butcher will walk you through that. Sometimes the price from the farmer includes the cut and wrap fee, sometimes not. Make sure to ask the farmer about getting the offal. What you can get is dependent on what Country you're from and in US it varies by state.
All that said, start slow and get back in to things. Worry about that down the road.
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Jordy I started really slow adding animal products and fat back in. I just sent you an message telling you what I did.0
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tshirtartist wrote: »Jody, I can totally relate! I was vegan for 9 years and the last year and a half was low fat ( not even avocados or nuts no less oil) after seeing a lecture with dr. Essylstein. I had crazy craving! There was a while there I was even following 80/10/10. Weight was up and down 25lbs from bingeing and juice fasting. Looking back I can see how this wouldn't be good but you tend to find articles and books to support whatever path you are on. I started Paleo middle of December with no limits or macronutrient ratios on anything that was Paleo. Started really slowly with a piece of fish every couple of days and some nuts and avocado. Then added chicken and now after a couple of months have added all forms of meat. I feel way better! Was having problems with tendon issues which I fist attributed to age and sports injuries but after me knee, then my Achilles and finall trigger thumb, I realized my vegan diet was missing something. After having to wrap my knee for 2 years that pain is all gone?..wooHoo! Achellis tendon is almost better after being in pain and having to limit activity for 6 months and thumb is on the mend.
Yeah the low fat part of the diet I thought was going to kill me! My boyfriend eats paleo but isn't even aware paleo is a thing, and he was very patient with me, but when I said no oil, he thought it would kill him as well! Hehe. I'm really glad you feel better!! I have a really bad ankle (sprained it twice last year and the dr. said it would never properly heal, that it would always flare up) so now I have a bit of hope that this lifestyle might help it heal to where it doesn't feel like death at least.0 -
That was what happened to me. Just kept injuring myself when I really shouldn't have been. People kept saying well you have to take it easier as we are getting older. I am only 52 and I don't think that is that old! plus I wasn't mountain climbing or skiing just biking, elliptical, walking, weight training or doing yoga. Those are things I always do. Wasn't a weekend warrior either. Recovery has been happening fast aster adding back the fat and meat. There is hope!!! ☺️0
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Btw...totally not a big fan of doctors! Very holistic! I am sure if I would have went to the doctor they would have told me I tore my Achilles' tendon and put me in a boot, that I have trigger thumb and given me a cortisone shot and they a pulled something in my knee and stay off it. I believe diet and exercise is our best cure for most things.0
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Jordy you are going to prove that doctor wrong!0
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Welcome Jordy, you fell into something wonderful here, it has changed my life and many others in here. All really good advice above here.0
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Welcome! I did add you as a friend as well, and I am into the local, pasture raised, taking care of our community and earth type things as well. It can be as simple as using a local vendor off the side of the road that you strike up a conversation with. I found one that doesn't LOOK as nice but actually does mostly organic practices but isn't certified and I get a TON of things cheap! If you have area community farm markets those are a great place to meat people too. I met a guy that talks exactly like the guy in Omnivore's Dilemma and will take you through every single step they do to ensure proper rotation and encourage crops and healthy animals. AND I will say you can taste the difference in the meat and the produce when it is done correctly! Also eggs! I have to have pastured eggs, the conventional ones taste like glue to me now.
I did make the best investment of a chest freezer, the big 21 Cu. Ft. one, but got it off Craigslist for $200 delivered. Best investment I made! I can do berries and fruits that go out of season, meats, soups, stews, ingredients I save for broth (bones, tops of celery, onion peelings, carrot peelings, etc), I can stock up on any big sale with no problem, Etc. etc. Its a great investment!0
