3x5 or 5x5, which is "best?"

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MrGonzo05
MrGonzo05 Posts: 1,120 Member
This is something I’ve been thinking about lately and would like opinions on. My default recommendation for someone new to lifting is to follow a 5x5 sets across program with linear progression, built around squat, some type of press, barbell row, and deadlift: #JustDoStrongLifts. I don’t always recommend that, but often I do. I see a benefit to do 5 sets initially because it provides a lot of practice with key compound movements, and encourages development of training tolerance.

However, once someone reaches a mid to late novice stage, meaning they begin moving around heavy weights, and they become reasonably proficient with the main compound movements of the program, I no longer see a benefit to 5x5 program, preferring instead a program of 3x5, particularly if cutting, and for an older trainee like my old bag of bones.

The point is that I would recommend that modification even if the trainee still makes progress on a 5x5. I simply feel that those extra two sets in a 5x5 are not providing enough benefit to be worth the downsides, such as extra time spent in the gym, lifting heavy weights when tired, and the increased possibility of overuse injuries. If somehow none of those downsides are an issue, I wouldn’t expect dramatically different results over time on a 5x5 versus a 3x5, either. Are there good arguments for maintaining a 5x5 program until it basically stops working? Let’s exclude the other million or so possibilities for training programming to keep it simple.

TL;DR: mid to late novice should prefer 5x5 or 3x5?

Replies

  • MrGonzo05
    MrGonzo05 Posts: 1,120 Member
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    OP is making all this up and just wants people out of "his" squat rack.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    The best argument I can think of would be more total training volume that could potentially lead to better hypertrophy.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    You could argue that the difference could be made up through intelligent accessory selection/program design but then you're no longer comparing 3x5 to 5x5.
  • MattBrouse
    MattBrouse Posts: 16 Member
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    A "mid to late novice lifter" would respond well to more variability. Odds are their brains are bored with the idea of a linear, more-or-less the same, training days... but generally undulating across the volume-intensity scale will likely bring about better changes long term. Easiest example would be Wendler's 531 (or "WSBB" or the original "westside Barbell" stuff from the Culver City days of George Frenn (high level 1970's hammer thrower who is still in the powerlifting records book - seriously, go look) which then spawned the BFS program. And repackaged idea after repackaged idea.

    Bottomline, varible loading patterns own.

    #didhesayCulvers
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    LOL Nice hashtag
  • jenglish712
    jenglish712 Posts: 497 Member
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    I am no expert and have only about 6 months under the bar but just to share my personal experience.

    I found 3x5 much easier to do on a 1#/week loss rate. 5x5 I was feeling like I was running out of steam after 5x5 of just shy of 1.5x BW squat and finding it hard to make reps on weight for press and bench that I had made previously. I figured I was not gonna be getting hypertrophy in cut anyway.

    I do feel like when I switch to maintenance again that it will not be long before I need to switch to an intermediate program but don't feel I can give them a good testdrive while in a decent deficit.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
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    Why not do 4x5 and call it a hybrid mass-building record-setting routine? Best of both worlds?

    Just kidding, no one would ever do 4x5. Or for that matter, sets of 4, 6, 7 or 9. Ever. That's just inviting catabolism and the Babadook.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Lol
  • MrGonzo05
    MrGonzo05 Posts: 1,120 Member
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    DopeItUp wrote: »
    Why not do 4x5 and call it a hybrid mass-building record-setting routine? Best of both worlds?

    Just kidding, no one would ever do 4x5. Or for that matter, sets of 4, 6, 7 or 9. Ever. That's just inviting catabolism and the Babadook.

    I will advocate a 3.1x5 and call it a 5kx5. Everyone competes in metric, and we might as well train in metric.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
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    DopeItUp wrote: »
    Why not do 4x5 and call it a hybrid mass-building record-setting routine? Best of both worlds?

    Just kidding, no one would ever do 4x5. Or for that matter, sets of 4, 6, 7 or 9. Ever. That's just inviting catabolism and the Babadook.

    I will advocate a 3.1x5 and call it a 5kx5. Everyone competes in metric, and we might as well train in metric.

    2599387-1091424467-ik49V.gif
  • MrGonzo05
    MrGonzo05 Posts: 1,120 Member
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    I found 3x5 much easier to do on a 1#/week loss rate.

    Agreed. 5x5, heavy weights, fast progression, and cutting is a brutal combination. Throw in some age and it may be counterproductive for some.
  • jenglish712
    jenglish712 Posts: 497 Member
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    Are you calling me old? ;)
  • MrGonzo05
    MrGonzo05 Posts: 1,120 Member
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    Are you calling me old? ;)

    Lol