Kick board techniques
fishgutzy
Posts: 2,807 Member
The only laps I use my burner fins for now are kick board laps.
I have noticed that there are 3 basic techniques people seem to use.
My preferred is with the board outstretched and my face in the water to keep as close to my front crawl plane as possible.
Other I've seen hold the board outstretched but raise their head out of the water.
And third, I've seen people use two board tucked under their chest holding there head and shoulders out of the water which causes the legs to go deeper into the water.
Each technique seems to put a different emphasis. But to me, #3 seems more of a lazy approach. But then maybe I'm being snobbish
Do you have a preference?
I have noticed that there are 3 basic techniques people seem to use.
My preferred is with the board outstretched and my face in the water to keep as close to my front crawl plane as possible.
Other I've seen hold the board outstretched but raise their head out of the water.
And third, I've seen people use two board tucked under their chest holding there head and shoulders out of the water which causes the legs to go deeper into the water.
Each technique seems to put a different emphasis. But to me, #3 seems more of a lazy approach. But then maybe I'm being snobbish
Do you have a preference?
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Replies
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#1 Face in water to maintain body alignment and lets me practise bi-lateral breathing on my weak side at the same time.0
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#1 is the proper way for the reason you both do it - it keeps the body in proper alignment. Both of the other methods are borne out of doing it the "easy" way but they both unnecessarily create bad habits that then need to be broken. Not only does method #1 allow you to keep good alignment, you can practice your freestyle breathing - especially if you're trying to learn to breathe to both sides. I see no advantages to the other 2 methods....0
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Help me out then, fellas. Even with a board, I cannot seem to get a breath on my weak side. Should I be pulling an arm back as if I am taking a stroke, or just turning my head to breathe? I don't think I rotate enough on my weak side, so if I continue to hold the board, I find that keeping my weak side arm outstretched inhibits turning my head.
Ideas? Discuss amongst yourselves (and anyone else who wants to jump in on this...) It piggybacks my bilateral breathing post. I LOVED the answer to table it (which I've been doing), and yet, I totally get it that there are a number of reasons why I need to learn it. It might take a coach to help me. I don't know. You guys are a great start though!!
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I spent my first 40 odd years swimming(very sporadically) breathing only out of the left side.girlwithcurls2 wrote: »Help me out then, fellas. Even with a board, I cannot seem to get a breath on my weak side. Should I be pulling an arm back as if I am taking a stroke, or just turning my head to breathe? I don't think I rotate enough on my weak side, so if I continue to hold the board, I find that keeping my weak side arm outstretched inhibits turning my head.
Ideas? Discuss amongst yourselves (and anyone else who wants to jump in on this...) It piggybacks my bilateral breathing post. I LOVED the answer to table it (which I've been doing), and yet, I totally get it that there are a number of reasons why I need to learn it. It might take a coach to help me. I don't know. You guys are a great start though!!
When I started swimming longer than 1.5 miles I forced myself to learn bilateral, taking a breath every 3rd stroke. I took a few months (100 miles) before it felt somewhat natural.
After a couple thousand miles it feels perfectly natural and I wonder why I thought it would be so hard.
Just be persistent.0 -
My sentiments too. The other two don't look useful at all. Maybe for body surfing#1 is the proper way for the reason you both do it - it keeps the body in proper alignment. Both of the other methods are borne out of doing it the "easy" way but they both unnecessarily create bad habits that then need to be broken. Not only does method #1 allow you to keep good alignment, you can practice your freestyle breathing - especially if you're trying to learn to breathe to both sides. I see no advantages to the other 2 methods....
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Curly - You can do 1 of 3 things:
1) Work 1 side for a length & trail that arm behind so that the shoulder is cleared out of the way
2) Do exactly what you said, pull 1 arm down so that the shoulder clears & you can turn your head, then put it back on the board - this would allow you to work both sides during the same length
3) Work 1 side for a length by putting 1 hand further up on the board & keeping the other at the edge closest to you, this clears the shoulder enough to be able to turn your head
Learning to bilateral breathe during kick sets is a GREAT way to learn it, if your kicking technique is pretty much committed to muscle memory that part of it is almost mindless & you can concentrate on the breathing. What's nice is that you can use the kick sets to practice breathing solely to the side that is currently uncomfortable because the whole stroke part is taken out of the equation & you have the feeling of safety from using the board. You don't need a coach for this, just plenty of yardage doing it - look at Gutzy's success in learning it, he kept plugging away at it until it became comfortable. Then you can use the sets where you swim the full stroke to concentrate on whatever else you're working on, once breathing to the other side feels comfortable during the kick sets it'll translate quickly to doing the full stroke with it. Just remember to keep your body in proper alignment while doing the kick sets so that you learn the breathing in the right position - this will help it feel more "right" when you add it to the full stroke....0 -
I do #2... I'm so lazy. I know I should be doing #10
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Kida_Adeylne wrote: »I do #2... I'm so lazy. I know I should be doing #1
Ditto. Now I'll be switching to #1 to work on the other side. Oh well, it's always more motivating for me to get to the pool when I know what my plan for the evening is!0 -
Any of the 3 are fine, as long as you aren't lifting your head and/or body up out of the water. It's important to have your face in the water, looking at the bottom like when you are swimming the full stroke & make sure you rotate the head to the side without lifting it up. Even if you aren't practicing breathing you should be doing this with the kickboard so that you are reinforcing the body's proper position in your muscle memory.....0
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Curly - Mac is wise. That's what I did to improve my Bi-Lateral breathing.
- Once I had the Kickboard technique down I switched to pullbuoy and repeated the drills without the kickboard thus incorporating a full front crawl stroke rhythm without thinking about the kick. 1 length strong side, 3-5 weak side then full bi-lateral.
- Then I added fins and did the full kick and front crawl stroke.
- Still need work but it is getting better. Based on Gutzys comment I have another 80 miles to go before it becomes solid.
I still drop into breathing practise when doing kickboard, pullbuoy or fins, even if just for 1 length.0 -
Juliet - going to the pull buoy is a fantastic next step!!!!0
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Bleeeeeech! Hard work, drinking in the pool. I have some serious work to do. OK, first day. This will take longer than most, as I have no idea when I'll reach 100 miles, lol. At the rate I'm going, that should be around my 50th birthday... Still, it felt good to have something to work on, some laps were better than others, and all pool time is good pool time
Thanks for all of the suggestions, you guys. Really, when someone has skills as basic as mine, it's all helpful. Just having a focus is helpful.
~Curly0 -
Today I paid particular attention to breathing while on the kick board.
Here is what I do. Allow the board to rotate with my shoulders when I breath. This way I'm not lifting my head so high to breath.
The main thing is to just keep at it. it will feel natural soon enough 0 -
Allow the board to rotate with my shoulders when I breath.
What does that look like, gutzy? I really struggled with this last night. The strokes didn't feel natural, and the timing felt awkward. I'm keeping at it though.0 -
I think everyone, at some point, has worked on something in swimming and had it amount to drinking a lot of pool water. I did that with flip turns. Keep going Curls, you'll get it. 0
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I just avoid boards as much as possible because I can't for anything get the knack of it. If I try, I do the first mentioned (head in water) technique otherwise my hips sink too much, but I can't get the hang of rotating to breathe...so then I end up having to stop kicking and stand just to breathe.
You mention that you rotate your shoulders, do your torso and legs rotate as well or do you isolate the turn to the shoulders?0 -
I've never tried rotating the board itself, it seems to me like it would take me away from the natural position.....
UncreativeMe123 - your torso will naturally turn some, but you don't really want more than that. You especially don't want the rotation going down through the hips & into the legs. In order to rotate for breathing while using a board, you need to clear the shoulder - techniques for that are on the previous page here.....0 -
Ah well - there be two schools of thought....... !
My coach has been encouraging just that - a rotation that does go along the body length as a eg way to avoid shoulder stress....and drag etc0 -
Gentlygently....does your coach tell you to rotate the body length while holding the kickboard, and when you do so does the kickboard tilt along with you? It's hard to imagine since it floats...My teacher tells me to rotate when swimming without holding on to anything, it's the holding that darn thing gets me 0
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Gutzy, this is already helping, and I'm on Day 3. It's also helping me to really focus on the feeling of catching my breath close to the water. A side benefit is that it throws in a little something different to do on days when I went to just swim freestyle. I now start out doing this to remind my body what it feels like to be looking right below me so that when I turn for a breath, I'm lined up to take it correctly. Thanks for the advice!0
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i do number 2 i like the strech in my abs i have my arm over the board rather than that base. i have no ussed with breathing so dont really need to practise and i tend to kickboard by a friend while she does casual breast stroke for a chat ....\
my routine is
5 mins breaststroke
100m sprint freestyle with fins
5 mins freestyle (no fins)
100m sprint with find
5 mins kickboarding
10 mins with a pullboi
5 mins kickboarding
100m spring with fins
5 mins freestyle with fins
5 mins breaststroke0 -
gentlygently wrote: »Ah well - there be two schools of thought....... !
My coach has been encouraging just that - a rotation that does go along the body length as a eg way to avoid shoulder stress....and drag etc
I was taught (& have subsequently taught) to not let the rotation really go down past the hips because you want to keep your focus & effort directed on going forward. Too much rotation causes that energy to fly out from side to side. I rotate my shoulders, allowing my stroke to reach out further overhead, but that rotation pretty much stops in my waist & hip area which keeps my body on more of a straight line & my kick driving me forward....
There are MANY schools of thought for many of the different aspects of the stroke & no single one is necessarily right or wrong. We are all built differently with different strengths & weaknesses, we need to find those theories & practices that work best for us. The more different schools of thought we post here, the more we expand the library of possibilities for all of us......0 -
girlwithcurls2 wrote: »Allow the board to rotate with my shoulders when I breath.
What does that look like, gutzy? I really struggled with this last night. The strokes didn't feel natural, and the timing felt awkward. I'm keeping at it though.
First off, I bought my own kickboard. A Speedo Competition II on Amazon. It is tapers so my arms are in a more natural position. And the board itself has more flotation than the ones at the Y.
When I turn to breath, the board stays in line with my shoulders and rotates the same amount.
Try a few different things. You'll find what works for you. Maybe a few gulps in the process. But you will win. 0 -
Oh, I can totally see how that kickboard would work better. Yeah, it was really awkward that first time, but it's better now. As usual, some laps (or entire sessions) are better, but I think if I just add it in as something to work on slowly, at some point, I will feel it's time to ditch the board and try it with the stroke.
I'm not in a rush to get any of this figured out. I started out swimming laps having no idea how technical it all is. Now, I am finally finding enough small successes that most of the time, I feel like I am actually swimming (as opposed to struggling with the basics). There are enough things I can't do that I want to do, that I am willing to keep going back. There are enough small successes at this point, that I am proud to go back. I'm glad I had no idea how challenging this would be. As I said before, I'm a quitter. I doubt I would have gotten into it knowing how much work it would be. Then again, maybe I was a quitter... (?)
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Curly - seems to me you're quitting being a quitter 0
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girlwithcurls2 wrote: »Bleeeeeech! Hard work, drinking in the pool. I have some serious work to do. OK, first day.~Curly
If you like drinking Pool water try some of the dreaded Life Guard Test's.
The hardest one I have experienced is the Heads Up Front Crawl. Pick a spot on wall at the far end of the Pool and then swim the length keeping your Head Up out of the water and your eyes on the spot. Really makes you appreciate how important good breathing technique is to your swim skills, and how good your breathing technique is even if it needs work.0 -
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uncreative - yep, the rotation based stuff has been with out a kick board.
Mind you when I am also doing straight kicking lengths (ie parallel to Pool floor, flat) I don't use a kick board either. No need. I usually do a little skull or sometime a full breastroke arm to breathe.
Why do people prefer having a board? (I did use to use in previous lessons)
And sometimes I do breaststroke arms and kicking legs....
Now another thing I had not realised was the importance of kicking down but not up (on front crawl at least). I have been trying to do it anyway, as understood it to be good practise - but my coach was demonstrating how counter productive pulling your leg up is (it makes you go the wrong way...)0
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