My understanding is that you only have antibodies from an autoimmune response. As far as I know, Hashi's is the only autoimmune thyroid condition (though I'm not sure about this).

So, with Hashi's, you often have TPO or Tg antibodies (the two that are well known). However, it is possible to still see inflammation without these two antibody markers through a scan, though this is far less common (something like less than 10% of Hashi's diagnoses -- the person's thyroid is still having an autoimmune response but just to other specific proteins than the ones associated with TPO and Tg tests).

So, if you are hypo by some other mechanism, then you don't have antibodies because it's not autoimmune based. Generally, these types of people respond well to medication and don't have the swings that you see with Hashi's. Hashi's can have swings, especially early in the progression of the disease, in response to the autoimmune response. Essentially, you have an autoimmune response (they don't really know why, but some suspect certain foods or environmental factors can provoke one), it 'attacks' your thyroid and proteins/hormones, making you feel hypo, your thyroid (if still high functioning) creates more hormones, the autoimmune response stops and you end up hyper due to the now extra hormones. So, with Hashi's, it can be difficult to medicate properly due to these fluctuations caused by the autoimmune response.

Some people have found relief through making sure that their other systems are at good levels (various vitamins/minerals, DHEA, blood sugar/insulin resistance, etc.). Many supplement with DHEA in particular as many hypo women also have low DHEA levels. There has been recent research showing the supplementing with Selenium (I think 200 mg per day) has shown an improvement in inflammation and autoimmune responses with Hashi's patients.

Some people find that they do better eliminating certain foods from their diets because they spark an autoimmune response -- gluten/grains is a common one, so is lactose and casein from dairy. Other people don't have any food allergies/sensitivities.

Some find that they fare better on the naturals (Armour, Nature-throid) rather than the synthetics (Synthroid, Cytomel), though why this is isn't clearly understood. Some speculate it's due to some autoimmune issue, others speculate that is has to do with the fact that the naturals have all the thyroid hormones T1, T2, T3 and T4 -- though no one really knows what role T1 and T2 play which is why the synthetics only supplement T4 (Synthroid) and T3 (Cytomel).

My doc -- who is a thyroid specialist -- says that his Hashi's patients tend to fare better on the naturals and that's what he recommends they use, but the choice is up to us. He freely admits that why that is isn't well understood but that is what he's personally seen in his practice. It seems like a lot of docs highly favor the synthetics, but why this is isn't totally clear to me as there really is no difference in precision in the dosages anymore. Is it just because that's the way it's been done? Maybe. Are there kickbacks from the drug companies? Maybe. I don't know. It seems like more docs are starting to see the value of the naturals, but it really still depends very much on the doc.

My best guess is that some of the other hypo people probably were Hashi's. My mother didn't get diagnosed hypo until she was in her early 50s. She had/has Hashi's but it was never diagnosed until she lost so much thyroid function that she was overt hypo.

Initially they didn't do any antibody testing with her because she wasn't seeing any fluctuations at that point and her doc said she'd lost so much thyroid function at that point that it was possible that there may no longer be any antibody markers present (i.e. it had killed so much of her thyroid at that point). She just got hers tested after I was diagnosed for kicks. She still did have antibody markers so it was officially Hashi's but they wouldn't have even bothered testing the antibodies at her age without the fluctuations (and many docs don't know to test for antibodies -- they just focus on TSH and occasionally Free T3 and Free T4). My understanding is that Hashi's is responsible for something like 70% of hypo cases.

So, it's possible that others in your family that are overt hypo were originally Hashi's and they either didn't test for antibodies or that the thyroid function was so far gone at that point that there wasn't much autoimmune response anymore due to destruction of the the thyroid over the years.

Here in Germany the doctors seem to be strictly against the naturals because they think they can't get an accurate dose with them.

I think that used to be the case in times past, but it's my understanding with recent technology that's no longer an issue. There may be a little difference, but it's negligible -- not enough to matter in any sort of substantive way, and even some of the biggest proponents of synthetics only in the US have finally admitted that. So, it's my understanding that it's a totally bogus thing now.

Hashimotos is an autoimmune issue, so try and investigate things that trigger inflammation and cut those out. I do best on natural thyroid and paleo diet (I do still have dairy some, but shouldn't, it bothers me lol). I was dx in Sept, trying to get med figured out.

Many times I have seen people saying their GP only tests..... or wont test.... Somewhere along the line they the GP got the idea, hypothyroid issues are easy to treat. This probably comes from there only being one readily trumpeted treatment regime no matter what your hypothyroid cause is, synthetic levo and it must be simple to get the dose right. The directions in UK and Europe for treatment is synthetic alone. Sometimes someone gets through to a knowledgeable medic who will treat outside the guidelines as a named person but generally ignorance is rife.

Stop the thyroid Madness, web considers most of the populations who are diagnosed are under treated. There are an almost equal number who's health issues are not taken seriously.

shadesofidaho wrote: »

I will ask the PCP about it. I do not know why he is so reluctant for testing. I am afraid he is a test book doctor and I might need an endo for the help I need.

Even endos aren't sure bets. Many endos are very old school and only look at TSH (or focus very heavily on diabetes and don't do much thyroid). Really look for someone that specializes in thyroid and/or metabolic disorders. Sometimes these are endos, sometimes they are functional or integrative MDs.

I can do some light weights. No heavy lifting, which I do anyway just living and then I pay for it. I forget the names but I have issues in my lower back with numbness in my legs and sciatica pain. I was badly injured in high school. Horse accident. I do some resistance band type strength training. It is called Cable Flex. Seems to be ok for me as long as I do not lean over and pull. That is when the problem starts. I can only do the straight up lifts and I think it mostly works my arms and abdomen. Even with my back brace on leaning over to lift gives me troubles. It really is the only thing I try not to do. I am a hard worker though and strong arm and leg muscles.

Allergictodiets. Sounds like you've found a potential gem. Hold on to her. Or possibly clone her, please

hi I just wanted to point something out. Hashimoto's is not the only thyroid disease with antibodies. So is Grave's. Discovered this the hard way after my son had been extremely ill for 10-12 mos. He was vomiting & pooping blood & dropped 55lbs in that time. (He's 5'10 & went down to 132lbs). All Drs. tested him for gastro stuff until finally overnight he developed huge goitre. Was hospitalized for anaphylactic allergic reaction at that time & Dr on duty noticed the lump. Within 2 weeks he saw endo & surgeon & 4 mos later had thyroid removed. With the thyroid gone the specialists both assured me the "antibody toxicity" is gone. So no more antibodies, but he's now on 150 synthroid with 6 wk blood tests to monitor his levels. I have Hashimoto's & never crossed my mind his health issues were thyroid related.
My Dr always tests T3, T4, & TSH when she does my blood work, but getting the antibody test was something I had difficulty getting anybody to do. Just wasn't a common test 15 yrs ago. I get blood work done every 3 mos & after 15 yrs we're still fiddling with my meds. Hoping this new LCHF plan will have results, health & weight wise.

@chunt87 so were they able to determine if antibodies are gone now? Both my Dr and specialist were unable to answer that for me (once the Hashimoto's kills it). The surgeon said in my son's case they were, but will Graves & Hashimoto's be different? So far it's only been a week on the LCHF and I'm still figuring it out as I go along. Had complete blood work done beginning of April ( before I had even thought of trying this) so am going to ask for another work up 1 month in just to compare results. Might be interesting.

Thanks @lindsey1979. I'm definitely doing follow up blood work after 1mo of this. Hopefully will have lost at least a little weight by then, and not mucked up any of my thyroid levels.

@chunt87 so what do they do now once the thyroid is dead? Just swim around? Look for something else to attack? How do we get rid of them?

I know in my son's case (Graves) the blood work 6 wks after his total thyroidectomy showed the antibodies had dramatically decreased. Can't remember numbers now, but once again both surgeon & specialist assured us that any "antibody toxicity" was gone. Only time will tell I guess. But, convincing a 24 yr old male who can't believe how good he's feeling, to continue getting labs done is a struggle. That whole I'm immortal young men have, is extremely annoying!
@chunt87 we have to play around with so much with Hashimoto's (meds, diet, activity levels, etc.) that I think once we find something that seems to work, stick with it. That's the bad thing about Hashimoto's, no one thing for everyone.
This whole autoimmune thing is a pain in the rear. And usually once you have one disorder more pop up. Aren't we lucky?

I just wish I could find a Dr who knows half as much.

Some research suggests t1/t2's may enable residual t hormone to be recycled or breakdown pre elimination.