Marathon Race Pace
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Colorado_Joni
Posts: 25 Member
Hi all,
For those who don't know me, I have been running for about 3 years. I have run about 20 races in this time. In the last year, I have completed several road races including three marathons, two half marathons, and about five 10Ks. Likewise, in the last year, I have done a lot of trail running and have completed a few trail races including a 50K, one half marathon, and one 10K.
Recently, it's become apparent to me, that my road marathon race paces are pretty inconsistent with my other race paces. I feel that my marathon pace is quite a bit slower than I can reasonably handle.
For example (these are within the same 3 months):
10K PR - 1:01:16 (9:52/min)
Half PR - 2:17:32 (10:32/min)
Marathon PR (this was even about 5000ft less in elevation) - 5:20:13 (12:13/min)
Admittedly, I find myself walking out of boredom a little bit during road marathons and long training runs on roads.
So what can I do to improve this? Longer speedwork intervals and tempo runs? More race pace practice? Working on my mental fortitude? Stick to trail running if road running feels boring at times?
Thanks in advance for your tips.
For those who don't know me, I have been running for about 3 years. I have run about 20 races in this time. In the last year, I have completed several road races including three marathons, two half marathons, and about five 10Ks. Likewise, in the last year, I have done a lot of trail running and have completed a few trail races including a 50K, one half marathon, and one 10K.
Recently, it's become apparent to me, that my road marathon race paces are pretty inconsistent with my other race paces. I feel that my marathon pace is quite a bit slower than I can reasonably handle.
For example (these are within the same 3 months):
10K PR - 1:01:16 (9:52/min)
Half PR - 2:17:32 (10:32/min)
Marathon PR (this was even about 5000ft less in elevation) - 5:20:13 (12:13/min)
Admittedly, I find myself walking out of boredom a little bit during road marathons and long training runs on roads.
So what can I do to improve this? Longer speedwork intervals and tempo runs? More race pace practice? Working on my mental fortitude? Stick to trail running if road running feels boring at times?
Thanks in advance for your tips.
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Replies
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More miles at easy pace will get you what you want which is a solid aerobic foundation.
Given your 10K time, your HM pace with a solid aerobic foundation should be 10:07-10:12 and your marathon pace should be 10:25 to 10:30.
Of course, fixing your aerobic foundation will speed up your 10K so the other ones will get faster too.
Get your weekly easy and long run mileage above 50 miles per week consistently for about 6 months and you will be on the way towards the improvement you are seeking.0 -
With what you're saying I'm not too far off track. I've been at about 40 mpw for the last three months (I do scale it back for a week every third week or so). I would love to keep building my base and get to 50 mpw. Good to know I'm on the right track. Thanks Scott!0
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Agreeing with @scottb81 that more easy miles will help. What does your weekly mileage look like right now?
I've found that throwing in a longer midweek run and consciously working on mental fortitude has helped me a lot. Finding ways to keep me going and mantras to keep me moving has helped quite a bit. Plus distracting myself with podcasts helps too
To be honest, my stats are a lot like yours. My 10k PR is around 49 minutes (7:5-something pace), my 13.1 PR is around 1:53 (8:35 pace), but I'll probably end up between 9:30 and 9:45 for my marathon at the end of the month. So I'm also interested to read more advice from others.0 -
If your aerobic condition is high then there is a linear relationship between race pace at various distances. Each doubling of the distance adds about 15 seconds per mile to the pace. So, someone with a 7:00/mi 5K pace should be able to race:
10K - 7:15/mi
HM - 7:30/mi
Mar - 7:45/mi
When one's race paces do not line up close to that then the problem is lack of aerobic base/capacity and the solution is more easy miles.0 -
But if she is getting bored and walking during races then I just don't know if more miles is going to motivate her not to be bored anymore.
Maybe your personality is more of a chill trail runner who should be doing ultras instead?0 -
@teacton11 I believe you are correct to an extent. Also, I'm sure with more trail miles the occasional road race will get easier and faster.0
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If your aerobic condition is high then there is a linear relationship between race pace at various distances. Each doubling of the distance adds about 15 seconds per mile to the pace. So, someone with a 7:00/mi 5K pace should be able to race:
10K - 7:15/mi
HM - 7:30/mi
Mar - 7:45/mi
When one's race paces do not line up close to that then the problem is lack of aerobic base/capacity and the solution is more easy miles.
This assumes your long training is consistent with your short training, but yea. I am going to be testing this theory over the next couple of months as I just crushed a new 5k PR over the weekend and my coach is all ecstatic that he gets to rewrite my pace zones
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If your aerobic condition is high then there is a linear relationship between race pace at various distances. Each doubling of the distance adds about 15 seconds per mile to the pace. So, someone with a 7:00/mi 5K pace should be able to race:
10K - 7:15/mi
HM - 7:30/mi
Mar - 7:45/mi
When one's race paces do not line up close to that then the problem is lack of aerobic base/capacity and the solution is more easy miles.
I can do a half at an 8:40/mi pace but a full at 9:09? Nope! Not happening yet.
More easy miles for me then. :laugh:0 -
I have to agree with treacton11 on this. If you are getting bored then perhaps you should stick to trails. Or find a really scenic road marathon and see if that helps. I know that I don't personally do well in flat city courses. I do much better with rolling hills and lots of scenery!0
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kristinegift wrote: »What does your weekly mileage look like right now?
Averaging about 40 mpw, with an easier week once every three or so weeks. I think a longer mid-week run is a great idea. This last training cycle, I was really never going more than 8 mi mid-week but picking up the slack with back-to-back weekend runs. I think I could definitely stand to add a few miles there. And thank goodness for podcasts - I never would've made it this far without them.
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If your aerobic condition is high then there is a linear relationship between race pace at various distances. Each doubling of the distance adds about 15 seconds per mile to the pace. So, someone with a 7:00/mi 5K pace should be able to race:
10K - 7:15/mi
HM - 7:30/mi
Mar - 7:45/mi
When one's race paces do not line up close to that then the problem is lack of aerobic base/capacity and the solution is more easy miles.
This assumes your long training is consistent with your short training, but yea. I am going to be testing this theory over the next couple of months as I just crushed a new 5k PR over the weekend and my coach is all ecstatic that he gets to rewrite my pace zones
Congrats on your PR! Let us know how it turns out.
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Colorado_Joni wrote: »kristinegift wrote: »What does your weekly mileage look like right now?
Averaging about 40 mpw, with an easier week once every three or so weeks. I think a longer mid-week run is a great idea. This last training cycle, I was really never going more than 8 mi mid-week but picking up the slack with back-to-back weekend runs. I think I could definitely stand to add a few miles there. And thank goodness for podcasts - I never would've made it this far without them.
I think we're basically in the same boat. I do about 40 mpw, and my long runs will be 40-50% of my mileage, so they take far longer than my other runs. Between training cycles, I want to build up to 50-55 mpw, but have all my runs be more consistently longer at 8-12 miles, with a longer (15-16 miles) run on the weekend, and hopefully that will start to even things out a bit more with my pace for longer and shorter efforts.0 -
Colorado_Joni wrote: »Hi all,
Admittedly, I find myself walking out of boredom a little bit during road marathons and long training runs on roads.
If road running is boring why do it?
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It's not always possible for me to make it to the trails. Also, I don't always find it boring. Just after pounding the flat pavement for hours I find it gets mundane.0
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Running a marathon can get boring. However, runnibg is the fastest way to the finish ;-).. How many marathons have you done? Things that helped me get my MP up: higher mileage, more long runs, more medium long runs with tempo & MP work0
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I'm not sure I understand why you'd force yourself to run the marathon distance if it bored you to the point that you decide to just walk. Marathon isn't the be-all, end-all to distance running. Find a distance you like and be happy with it. Many athletes focus on one distance and excel.
Also, it isn't boring if you're trying to race it.0 -
kristinegift wrote: »Colorado_Joni wrote: »kristinegift wrote: »What does your weekly mileage look like right now?
Averaging about 40 mpw, with an easier week once every three or so weeks. I think a longer mid-week run is a great idea. This last training cycle, I was really never going more than 8 mi mid-week but picking up the slack with back-to-back weekend runs. I think I could definitely stand to add a few miles there. And thank goodness for podcasts - I never would've made it this far without them.
I think we're basically in the same boat. I do about 40 mpw, and my long runs will be 40-50% of my mileage, so they take far longer than my other runs. Between training cycles, I want to build up to 50-55 mpw, but have all my runs be more consistently longer at 8-12 miles, with a longer (15-16 miles) run on the weekend, and hopefully that will start to even things out a bit more with my pace for longer and shorter efforts.
Funny I just made that decision recently too. I'm just now getting the mileage back up after the marathon last month and I've done a 6 and two 8 mile runs this week. I'm going to make my normal run about 8 miles which seems to be a pretty nice distance that still feels casual.
As far as the OP's comment on boredom, that's up to the person doing the running. I try to mix things up or pick a route that has some variance. I've been doing this 1.1 mile loop which I like since it's a dirt path. It's in a park so there's always something going on there. Birds, squirrels, maintenance people doing random things, and other runners/walkers. After 4 miles on that I do an out and back in a different area of the park. I can't do 8 miles in a loop every day. That's boring.
Occasionally instead of doing the out and back I go out on some of the neighborhood streets. Bring your phone and stop and take pictures of the sunrise or other odd things you see. Just because you're doing miles and miles doesn't mean you have to be bored. That's why you're outside instead of on a treadmill.0 -
SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »I'm not sure I understand why you'd force yourself to run the marathon distance if it bored you to the point that you decide to just walk. Marathon isn't the be-all, end-all to distance running. Find a distance you like and be happy with it. Many athletes focus on one distance and excel.
Also, it isn't boring if you're trying to race it.
I think you missed the point, which is I'm looking for ways to improve my marathon pace.
I never said "Marathons bore me." I said sometimes I walk out of boredom - the repetitive flat terrain and movement can sometimes get mundane, which I know is not helping my overall pace. I would be shocked if the average marathon runner didn't occasionally feel the same at some point during a training cycle.
There are many reasons I like running the marathon distance and was just looking for tips on how to speed up.
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Running a marathon can get boring. However, runnibg is the fastest way to the finish ;-).. How many marathons have you done? Things that helped me get my MP up: higher mileage, more long runs, more medium long runs with tempo & MP work
I've done 3 marathons and 1 ultramarathon. And I think those are all great suggestions. Thank you!!
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Racing less is also a way to get faster. It helps you remain consistent in training and not recovering. Pick a goal full with a warm up half about 5-6 weeks out. Build base mileage then start a dedicated training plan that ups that mileage 12-18 weeks out.
I love running fast. Someone here (Carson?) once said something along the lines of "running fast is fun, but to run fast you can't do it all that often". It's true. If you are in constant state of recovery (even a fun 26.2 is going to cause massive structural strain on the body), you won't be able to lay down the real effort when it counts.0
