Chat and Accountability May 17 - May 23
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Kim, feel free to jump in whenever I post anything on FB and you have an opinion. Hey, I can take it!
My sleep had been much better lately so Sunday night was a bit of an anomaly (although I have a pretty good idea what caused it). I've been taking in everything here and still trying to figure out what I'm going to do. I'll admit the macros and stuff you're doing confuses the heck out of me (and I'm a geek but not sure I want to be that geeky when it comes to what I eat). Just evaluating what I want to do when I get back from Arizona. I know I'll be starting a Whole30 again as I want to complete one. I'll be getting in a lot of walking while out there at least and I need to make sure to bring that back home. I've got to get out walking before I consider doing anything else.
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That's a perfect plan Jen. If you get sleep dialed in, back to walking (and do we need to talk about what I mean by walking. I'm not talking cardio. Not trying to go fast enough to get a high heart rate. I literally mean walking. Or jaunting. Strolling. You should be able to carry on a normal not breathless conversation). Just focus on those two. Even in AZ. The food will be easier if you get those straight.
Oh and meditate. Those three.0 -
beerbikegirl wrote: »That's a perfect plan Jen. If you get sleep dialed in, back to walking (and do we need to talk about what I mean by walking. I'm not talking cardio. Not trying to go fast enough to get a high heart rate. I literally mean walking. Or jaunting. Strolling. You should be able to carry on a normal not breathless conversation). Just focus on those two. Even in AZ. The food will be easier if you get those straight.
Oh and meditate. Those three.
Yes Kim.
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Thanks Kim (I'm Susan)... I tend to over-think stuff... Long term is what I'm looking for... as a health nut (and teacher) crash diets are not for me... I need a lifestyle. Paleo has served me well, but this baby weight SUCKS!!!! The more I listen to Kiefer the more I hear him say, "it's not complicated!!" So I am on day 2 of ultra low carb (I typically eat Whole 30... I can't believe I just went 24 hours without FRUIT!!!!!), just had the best workout...NOW FOR SOME BREAKFAST!!! On the meditation note, have y'all tried Buddhify 2 (iphone app)... good stuff for clearing your mind options...0
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Hey Susan. The one area I didn't cover was exercise. Give me an idea of what you do in a given week. This can be a critical piece if you are overdoing it.
Also unsure about your twelve hour comment. Kiefer is quite adamant that intermittent fasting is not a benefit in CN. He believes just doing the protocol provides the same benefits as IF and anything more is an unnecessary stressor. For women you should not go more than 12-14 hours without food. So if you eat dinner at 6pm, you should break that fast by 8am. The morning not the most beneficial time to exercise is really more around carb back loading his other program.0 -
Right!!! I got some CBL podcasts in with my CNS podcasts... as well as some other guys besides Kiefer... I definitely need to clear up some confusion!! Any insight or help would be GREATLY appreciated. My days look like this...
5 am: wake up, feed baby, clean house, prepare for day (I used to eat breakfast here, but am thinking I should workout first? Or is that a more CBL thing?)
7 am: take big kid to school, go to work
8:30-9:30: workout...I know it's not optimal but having a baby at home there is no guarantee I will get ANYTHING done when I get home...also it will change in 2 weeks when school is out for the summer. (I am a high school PE teacher... so I have everything at my disposal... TRX, weights, cardio equipment...) I typically try to get some (40 min) cardio in here because I do other stuff all day long with my classes... we do TRX, flip tires, play sports, lift weights, P90X...
9:30: breakfast (probably too late...? as I have dinner around 7 or 8pm)
9:40-3:05: I'm not your average gym teacher... I am moving ALL day... 10,000-16,000 steps/day
3:30-4:30: I ride bikes or walk with my kids.
4:30-7pm: cooking, cleaning, laundry...mom/wife life... (EXCEPT 2 days a week I coach swimming at the YMCA, those days I add another workout and swim with my kids... I don't get home til 8pm.)
10pm: sleep, sleep, sleep...
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Five fat loss myths by Bodyio coach Dain. Worth a read.
http://body.io/five-common-fat-loss-lies-may-still-believe/0 -
beerbikegirl wrote: »Five fat loss myths by Bodyio coach Dain. Worth a read.
http://body.io/five-common-fat-loss-lies-may-still-believe/
Well I got a 40% on that test (still believe 3 of the 5).
I got past the whole low fat is healthy and the calorie counting things. I still have a long way to go. Darn it all on the fruit though. That's my go-to thing when I actually am doing what I'm supposed to do. Hmmmmm
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Jen, In moderation fruit is fine, but really should be a treat. Did you listen to the Ben Greenfield interview Carol did? He talks about fruit. Bottom line, your body can only do two things with fructose...convert to liver glycogen or store as triglycerides (and then fat). We only have so much liver glycogen space, if its full (and more likely than not it is), the body will convert the fructose to triglycerides...which have a strong correlation/causation relationship with heart disease (the ratio of triglycerides to HDL is a much stronger indicator of heart disease potential than LDL readings ever will be, you want no more than 2x HDL in triglycerides...really want it 1:1 or better. My HDL is 99 my triglycerides are 85 - which is good). Ben says if you are gonna eat fruit, either eat first thing in morning when your liver glycogen is low or after strenuous workouts when its same. That makes sense to me.
Not saying you should't eat fruit - but if you are eating more fruit than vegetables that really isn't healthy. Fruit like apples and pears ripen in the fall naturally for a reason...to fatten us up for winter. Low sugar fruits like berries are decent options in moderation. And juices are worse possible....all the fructose not fiber to at least slow down digestion.0 -
Susan...oh my that's way too much exercise for CarbNite and probably also why you are struggling with shedding the fat. Read this from Kiefer....
athlete.io/5343/why-women-should-not-run/
Kiefer also talks about how most active people with a fat loss goal have to cut working out by at least 40% to succeed at fat loss. Also Alex and AJ talk on one of the body podcasts that they have to get many women to slow down before the fat loss starts.
If fat loss is your goal....stop the cardio. If you need to do something for a mental break, go for a nice walk- at a strolling pace, just to move, get outside. Your daily gym class other stuff lifting, TRX, etc. is more than enough activity. You are creating a cortisol nightmare that will prevent fat loss with that much activity plus cardio will eating with CarbNite. Heavy lifting (not the cardio circuit training kind) is fine on CN. Some limited and well timed HIIT is okay once you have settled in and have progress, but add carefully. Long 40 min cardio is not helpful, actually hurtful.
Bottom line, if fat loss is your goal make it your goal...if cardio performance is your goal, then accept you will not lose fat at any decent rate.0 -
So, we went to my wife's grandmothers yesterday. We weren't sure what she had to eat, so I brought along some compliant leftovers. When we got there, she had oreos and jalapeno cheez itz on the counter! Those are two of my favorite snacks, and I haven't had either in forever. I was able to resist, but MAN I wanted them.0
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beerbikegirl wrote: »Jen, In moderation fruit is fine, but really should be a treat. Did you listen to the Ben Greenfield interview Carol did? He talks about fruit. Bottom line, your body can only do two things with fructose...convert to liver glycogen or store as triglycerides (and then fat). We only have so much liver glycogen space, if its full (and more likely than not it is), the body will convert the fructose to triglycerides...which have a strong correlation/causation relationship with heart disease (the ratio of triglycerides to HDL is a much stronger indicator of heart disease potential than LDL readings ever will be, you want no more than 2x HDL in triglycerides...really want it 1:1 or better. My HDL is 99 my triglycerides are 85 - which is good). Ben says if you are gonna eat fruit, either eat first thing in morning when your liver glycogen is low or after strenuous workouts when its same. That makes sense to me.
Not saying you should't eat fruit - but if you are eating more fruit than vegetables that really isn't healthy. Fruit like apples and pears ripen in the fall naturally for a reason...to fatten us up for winter. Low sugar fruits like berries are decent options in moderation. And juices are worse possible....all the fructose not fiber to at least slow down digestion.
Kim and I did listen to Carol's interview of Ben and I caught his comments about fruit. Doesn't mean I like it! I've seen fruit as a way to keep me off of the processed sugars and sweets. Again, lots of things to think about and put into action. My last blood test wasn't too bad (yes, my triglycerides were higher than yours but not in any 'danger' zone). But again, things to work on.
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Wow Heron! What a great consult you had with Christn. I know it feels awesome to have such specific goals and guidance. We are here to cheer you on! I can't wait to hear about all your progress!!
Jen: try not to get too overwhelmed. And don't forget what works for you in the beginning: making better choices (less processed foods) and walking. if you really want to do another whole 30, that's going to really help with the food choices. And you definitely want to make sure you're getting enough vegetables, so over eating fruit is going to interfere with that. I'm pretty sure the whole 30 plan tells you to limit fruit. The thing I really like about it, is that after a couple of weeks you don't need so much willpower. But that is a couple of weeks of being good about it. If you're eating a lot of fruit, you're not really changing your relationship with fruit. I did like Ben's advice like Kim says: first thing in the morning or after strong workout.
John, I'm still waiting to hear back on what time is good for you to do a podcast. I'm glad you're doing better, let's get something recorded! :-)
TJ: Caroline wrote me a very similar email today. It started with the word HELP! you guys are too funny… I'm going to send you a podcast of these people who finished up a Whole30 and talked about it like it was the answer to everything. Oh wait, that was you and her. Lol
I'm not worried about you.
Susan: I love your enthusiasm! I'll still love you because you are high school PE teacher. Fantastic profession!! I help fitness coaches seem to have the biggest impact with the kiddos that need guidance, affirmation, direction. And isn't that all kids? did you by any chance see the podcast that Lisa Jarmon and I did with Kiefer? it's quite embarrassing for me because I knew nothing about CNS at the time or who he was, so we pretty much just acted silly as always. But there still some value in that episode especially for people who are just starting out.
Kim: i'm going to make a concerted effort this week to get more sleep. I appreciate all of your reminders about this!!0 -
UGH!! Fat loss is DEFINITELY my goal... guess I've got some chillin out to do... Thanks so much for the input... I know running is bad... I just LOVE the sweat, something about a sweat-drippin cardio sesh that I just CANNOT GET ENOUGH OF!!! I used to powerlifting, guess I'll get back to picking up heavy stuff!!0
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Susan, I agree with what Kim is saying. Sometimes less is more. Case in point: last year I was trying to lose fat doing CNS and I was doing 4-6 sessions of Muay Thai a week and running 4X a week. I stalled it wasn't until I slowed down that I started to see result. Can you train and still lose fat? Yes, but you have to be VERY experienced and even then it still would take to dial it in.
I agree on the fruits for the same amount of carbs and sugar in certain fruits, I would rather eat reese's LOL If you want the nutrients, get it from veggies. Save the super sweet fruits for once a week thing and stick to berries for the weekdays would be a good compromise?
Kim, We actually don't prefer to eat less protein lol Heck I can put away a 18oz steak in one sitting no problem. But that's Its just the macros she gave me which is right within the parameters that you mentioned Kiefer recommended. For me I weigh 172lb. 27% bodyfat = 46.44 lean body mass=125.56 And since I am not training and my main goal is fat loss we'll take the low range 125.56*0.5=62.78g of Protein. And help me out with because I don't remember if it was Kiefer who said but I think he did .. He said most people don't need 1.0X of protein and if they exercise regularly 0.7 or 0.8 would suffice. Ben Greenfield actually recommends lower. Here's a great article explaining it. Dude works out and he is only eating 100g of protein a day. Not saying that you should listen to his findings, heck I'm confuse with protein but from I've been learning I know I don't need "that much" I just need to find my protein sweet spot http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2011/11/how-much-protein-do-i-need/
And these are just super interesting.
This is about protein fasting/cycling.. http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2014/08/episode-291-full-transcript/
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2014/02/270-natural-remedies-for-snoring-weight-training-for-endurance-athletes-how-to-lose-weight-with-a-low-thyroid-and-much-more/#ixzz2wPOmFQGH
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2014/03/the-link-between-gut-and-hormones/
By the way I love the discussion of proteins
I'm going to ask Christin on our next check in on her views on protein intake.
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Happy Wednesday Folks! Today is our Hospitals VA2K. Its a 2K walk/run to help Homeless Veterans and health awareness for Veterans. I'm on our committee this year so gonna be an early day today. I also have Honor Guard Training today for the Hospice. We are committed to no Veteran going home alone, and we have a ceremony for the initial flag draping. Team will be on call 24/7.
Susan - Adding to the Chorus here, you might want to look into a book I am reading now "Chi Walking" by Danny and Katherine Dreyer. The also wrote Chi Running. But if you're on a fat loss goal would recommend the walking book.
Carol - Replied to the email, I'm ready on the weekend (this weekend) when ever you are. Just give me a day's notice for the timing.
Heron - Good Stuff from BG. I've been listening to him for a long time now and he gives very good advice. Met him at Paleo Fx, interesting fella. I find the 0.5 g very difficult to do, (102g/day) .7 is doable but slows results. The good news for me is I'm not on a timeline so slow is OK. I think I have a metabolic advantage in this area over you gals as well.
Jen - You might be interested in the Chi walking as well. You can do this stuff.
Kim - Love your thoughts on all of this stuff. I'll just chime in on meditation, (Carol this could be the All things in life subject). I'm an old soldier, lived though three wars, lost way too many friends, I;m a widower, and a surviving Father. I'm am asked fairly regularly by folks how I've managed to keep my happy and a positive outlook on life. I have avoided a simple answer because there isn't one but I learned young to meditate in a combat zone were I was also introduced to tai chi. One of my teammates had us doing a Tai Chi routine every day and taught us the basics of TM and Chi. The inner calm and focus I can achieve in some very short contemplations has taken me through some fairly intense moments. It's a very powerful tool especially when you couple it to visualization. If folks are just starting out "8 min Meditation" is a good book and I know there are a bunch of guided meditation aps. Keep talking it up.
All righty then Folks, Work Hard, Have Fun! But above all B KOO_EL.
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There's a great post on the Facebook Carbs at Nite group from Trinette Chow, who is known for her epic carbnites, showing her body at lifting 5x a week plus 2 HIIT session to lifting 3x a week zero HIIT. She's fit in both, but particularly midsection much much leaner since she backed off the workouts. It's a closed group (but they add anyone). AJ just made a comment asking her to post on the body io Facebook page- because as she put it many women need to learn less is more. I'll link if she does. If anyone follows Juli Baur, aka paleomg, her body went through same transformation a couple years ago. When I first started following her blog she was training for the cross fit games. Looked great but bulkier. Now she's simply lowered her amount of workouts, and leaned out. Tons of muscles but leaner.
TJ, great job resisting the temptations!
Heron, I'm known in the FB carbs at nite as the lower protein pusher. That group acts like if you don't eat 1gr per lb of body weight (as in total, not lean) you'll have no success, shrivel up and die or something. So I do agree you don't need a ton, or even the 1gr/bodywieght. I think it varies by individual and activity. I do find if I eat lower one day, I crave meat the next. And like you, I love a huge steak. (Now this talk is making me want to track again to see what I've eaten last few days...the not tracking is somewhat bugging me....but at same time glad to not do it. Weird. )0 -
So grateful for the guidance!!! I am in my office right now drinking coffee with heavy cream instead of my regular cardio sesh!!
Carol... Yes!! I have the best job in the whole wide world. (caution...humble brag!!) We are doing final fitness testing for the semester and EVERY student (so far, one more class to go today) has significantly improved their mile time this semester -- they ran the first mile in January on a treadmill and ran their final mile yesterday on the track in 80+ degree weather-- SO THAT'S HUGE IMPROVEMENT!!! Normally freshmen (especially girls) gain fat... my only gains were ones who put on muscle!! It's been a GREAT semester!! I'll go find that podcast now... sounds like what I need as a newb!
Hmrjmr... I'll check that book out... I do like walking...but I LOVE sweating... my students think I'm the weirdest!! 0 -
Haha, thanks Carol! If only I could stand to listen to myself.
I decided to start ticking off my days of good eating, this year. I marked off as many as I could remember, but just couldn't figure out any of February. I'm pretty sure I did pretty well, and probably only slipped up a couple of days, but I left them blank. Even with February not factored in, I'm at 68 days, which is 48% of the year, so far!.
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John, I've know the benefits of meditation but it's so wonderful to hear that it works for someone who had been through so much. Man I tried But I still don't know how to meditate and sometimes those sleep hypnosis/meditation videos works but I have yet learn the technique of quieting your mind. Sometimes at night I literally had to tell my mind to "shh just be quiet" I'm not crazy and I don't hear voices lmao but ever since I was a child I had an overactive mind and ADD.
I agree slow progress is good. And yes men are born to build muscle.
Kim I think the 1g thing is very antiquated that was one of those old fashion bodybuilding "rule" that really stuck. So I'm not surprise that that those FB people is so resistant on changing their belief and hey if they are seeing result more power to them. Our bodies are So different and for us women our hormones changes so frequently. Sigh.
I totally get what you mean with the whole food tracking.
Is that Trinette Chow really lean and fit looking? Kinda of like AJ? And on the younger side of age? I think it is inspiring to women who have the same goal. I look at women like that and I can appreciate the body and the hard work but I like to hear and see stories especially on her body podcast on women who are doing CNS or CBL in their 40s and older who are not rocking a lean body with obvious muscles (and don't plan to)but is at a healthy body fat range and has a fairly normal active lifestyle but heavy lifting is not their primary exercise. I'm not anti lifting at all, but I think not all women like to lift and there are other healthy alternative.
I'm actually kind of disappointed with her body podcast. I was hoping for more female based science talk and judging from their guests I don't think I'm their target demo lol I'll still listen and where they are going with their podcast before I make my decision to unsubscribe.
Susan, brag away! Kids nowadays need to move more! So that's great new about your students. I love a good sweat! I effing love it when I'm completely drenched in sweat! Endorphins! Yeah! Speaking of that, when I was doing a lot last year, I think my body got used to the endorphins and when I stopped because of my injuries I got the blues. I wasn't depressed or anything but I can definitely feel a mood change and after a few months it leveled out. So watch out for the blues if you suddenly cut down on cardio.0
