paleo vegan

jmzz1
jmzz1 Posts: 670 Member
Can anyone give me the food items to eat when on a vegetarian paleo plan?
I have planned to do so since I do not get grass fed meat here .

Is my decision to be a vegan good?... Thoughts please

Replies

  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    Paleo vegan is impossible to do without missing out on numerous nutrients (their primary calorie/protein sources are mutually exclusive). Vegan itself is questionable without careful planning and supplementation.

    That said, a vegetarian leaning paleo plan is doable, though takes some planning. You'll probably consume quite a few eggs, since it will be your primary protein source. I believe Mark Sisson's wife does this, so check out his site on the subject (here's one on protein -- http://www.marksdailyapple.com/vegetarian-protein/)

    Is the only reason you're considering vegetarian that you're not getting grass fed meat? While that's considered the gold standard, it's by no means required. Just get the best quality food you can.
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
    Vegetarian or vegan?

    Regardless, I don't see how it will work.
  • jmzz1
    jmzz1 Posts: 670 Member
    Could you help me with the amount of lentils or legumes to be consumed in a meal?

  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    What are you goals? Both calorie/macronutrient goals and practical goals (losing weight, fueling running, fueling weight lifting, etc).
  • jmzz1
    jmzz1 Posts: 670 Member
    Losing weight is my goal as of now
  • aSearch4Me
    aSearch4Me Posts: 397 Member
    Of note, there are many Paleo-diet followers that consider beans, lentils & legumes as "non-paleo" (including soy beans, milk & tofu). Without eating fortified grains, dairy or meat (even if you choose to eat beans/lentils/legumes), you are potentially risking deficiencies in key vitamins/minerals. If you truly want to go Paleo Vegan, you may want to seek out a local dietician to help you in that journey to make sure you don't end up with some major health issues.

    Grassfed meats are the "ideal," but not absolutely necessary. If you want to cut back on meat for health or ethical reasoning, consider substituting lean poultry, whole eggs, shellfish, or fish for your protein sources (to decrease amount of grain-fed/finished beef). Also, if you have farmers markets in your area, check for meat vendors. We have several small farmers with pasture-raised animals that have pretty reasonable prices on meat.
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    aSearch4Me wrote: »
    Of note, there are many Paleo-diet followers that consider beans, lentils & legumes as "non-paleo" (including soy beans, milk & tofu). Without eating fortified grains, dairy or meat (even if you choose to eat beans/lentils/legumes), you are potentially risking deficiencies in key vitamins/minerals. If you truly want to go Paleo Vegan, you may want to seek out a local dietician to help you in that journey to make sure you don't end up with some major health issues.

    Grassfed meats are the "ideal," but not absolutely necessary. If you want to cut back on meat for health or ethical reasoning, consider substituting lean poultry, whole eggs, shellfish, or fish for your protein sources (to decrease amount of grain-fed/finished beef). Also, if you have farmers markets in your area, check for meat vendors. We have several small farmers with pasture-raised animals that have pretty reasonable prices on meat.

    This pretty much. Though I would say if you're avoiding grain-fed/finished beef for health reasons, I'd also avoid the poultry. Conventionally raised poultry is arguably worse than conventionally raised beef (thanks to chickens being omnivores, which means they often get slaughterhouse scraps; the same goes for pork as well). As for eggs, I'd say it's worth getting the "vegetarian fed" ones if you're avoiding the conventional situations, though be aware that their protein source is typically soy in those cases (I have my own qualms with feeding chickens a vegetarian diet, but that's a different matter).

    Sea food's a great source of nutrients. Bivalves are popular among the not-quite-vegans, because they're very nutrient dense and provide the nutrients that are otherwise missing from a plant-based diet, and only require a few ounces a week or so.

    Also, one of the defining aspects of Paleo is that beans, lentils, and legumes are decidedly non-Paleo, especially soy (WAPF-leaning "Paleo" proponents, like Chris Masterjohn and Chris Kresser will do lentils or say beans are okay if soaked/sprouted/fermented, but they've basically become to Paleo with pescatarian is to veg*an; Mark Sisson, I think, is the closest to Paleo proper that talks about beans in one's diet, and he's pretty much "do so at your own risk, prepare it traditionally; meat is still better"). This is why Paleo and vegan are mutually exclusive when followed strictly.
  • approximatesunlight
    approximatesunlight Posts: 2 Member
    I'm no authority on the paleo portion of your question, but what vitamins does everyone think cannot be gained from a vegan diet? As far as I know there's no essential nutrient exclusive to animal products that cannot also be found in plants. Granted that the paleo restriction will add a measure of difficulty.
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    I'm no authority on the paleo portion of your question, but what vitamins does everyone think cannot be gained from a vegan diet? As far as I know there's no essential nutrient exclusive to animal products that cannot also be found in plants. Granted that the paleo restriction will add a measure of difficulty.

    Technically, B12 is, at best, inconsistently available, and requires specifically seeking out things like nutritional yeast (even veganhealth.org recognizes this -- http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/vitaminb12). K2 is found in animal products almost exclusively (except for natto, which is soybeans fermented with a particular culture; it's also apparently pretty gross to the uninitiated) and vitamin K1 does not have the same benefits that dietary K2 has, particularly when used alone (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4052396/, http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050196), and there's some emerging evidence that human K1->K2 conversion isn't as good as previously believed. Carnitine requires specifically seeking out tempeh or a lot of avocados to even begin to approach the content of it in the same 100g amount of pork or beef.

    Like I said, it's questionable without careful planning and supplementation.

    Regardless of the argument about whether Vegan is nutritionally complete, Paleo excludes legumes (including soy) and grains, the two primary sources of both some of the questionably-available micronutrients and protein in general. Tempeh is made from wheat, natto is made from soy, so there goes the only vegan sources of carnitine and K2, respectively. The combination of Paleo and Vegan, then, is unarguably nutritionally deficient. In order to even kind of follow both, concessions must be made on one side or the other in order for the diet to be nutritionally sound.