Diet rest week(s) vs. day/week

Tipularia · May 2015

I understand the reasoning behind taking a diet rest/break in order to re-rev up our metabolism after being in cut-mode for a period of time, however I'm curious regarding the best method.

I see that the EM2WL folks generally recommend 1-2 weeks after 2-3 months of being on a cut. I have also read, on other sites, about taking a rest day every week. However, I can't seem to find any research that says do this, not that. So, what is the best method and why?

Would a rest day every week do the work needed to keep metabolism up so you don't have to take two weeks out (which, btw, the number of days off the cut would be about the same)? Or is there a particular reason why it's best to wait and take a couple of weeks off?

Thanks!

heybales · May 2015

If doing a good lifting routine, the 2 weeks can be combined for a week off exercise which is great too, and a week off the diet.
The combo can really unstress the body.

It's letting hormones reset you might say, so they don't start causing daily burn to go down - it's more than just metabolism at that point.

There is indeed a study for the popular diet a few years ago where they took pretty hard deficit but then had a decent pig out day.
But you started the diet this way, so body never slowed down for those that were healthy to start with.
But I saw plenty of failures of people moving to that plan after already stalling - so it didn't help reset anything when already messed up.

The 5:2 plan is along these same lines, TDEE on 5 days, 2 non-consecutive days at 25% of TDEE. Showed great success for average folks that didn't have any problem fitting workouts around the extreme deficit days.

Sadly, that study didn't compare other methods, say 2 days TDEE, 5 days 75% of TDEE.
So just like your body may react differently to others for how fast it adjusts, how much deficit it starts adjusting to, ect - without a personal study and research on it - you really don't know.
So you take the failsafes, and hope yours isn't on the negative side of the bell curve and the failsafes aren't good enough.

As to why a couple weeks destressed.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/

Tipularia · May 2015

Thanks for the reply, Heybales!

So, I guess the answer is that one day per week eating at TDEE isn't enough to keep hormones at the levels needed. Therefore, the only choice is to allow them to decline over the course of the diet and then spend serious time boosting them back during a longer break?

Would that it would be easier..... Ah, well...

Thanks for the insight and the link!

heybales · May 2015

And you may be one that when a reasonable deficit is used, you have no decline.

And the 1 day a week would work.

Would need to test it out though, like the 6-8 weeks leading up to rest week. If weekly weight loss over that time is right as expected, then it is working for you, skip the reset week.
If not - then time for that reset week.

Tipularia · May 2015

Ah! An experiment! Now I can get into that.

Although, to be honest, weight loss (at least by the scale) isn't happening right now. Inches lost, yes, but the darn scale is being stubborn. Perhaps the results of heavy lifting at the same time? Nevertheless, I'm sticking with the plan.

Thanks!

heybales · May 2015

You may well have to choose between performance gains and weight loss. If lifting over 6-9 months.

You only have the opportunity when you start lifting to actually do both - that won't be available later when you've been lifting for awhile.

That's why I actually encourage anyone starting out to confirm you are losing weight.
Because you can still tighten up the body and make improvements while doing so.

Later, it'll be one or the other, or so painfully slow you'll wish you didn't have to chose.

Tipularia · May 2015

Good to know! I've been lifting seriously for about three months. Performance gains every time I lift, but that seems pretty normal on a reset. I finished my reset and started a cut 2.5 weeks ago. Until yesterday I measured loss in inches, but no scale loss. Finally, this morning, I was down about a half a pound on the scale. Thank goodness!

My plan is to continue with two different workouts. Two days/week of circuits with lower weights, high sets and reps and short rest times for increased fat loss and one day of high weights, low reps and sets and longer rest times to help maintain (maybe increase a little??) muscle mass. Perhaps even eating at TDEE on that heavy lift day to encourage muscle gain.

Does that sound reasonable?

After losing 45 pounds on a low calorie diet and now knowing that much of that must have been muscle mass, I'm determined not to lose ANY of the precious muscle I have.

heybales · May 2015

Perfect program - because indeed the only way to keep higher lifting weights is to keep doing some at that weight. It's been found that you can do about 2/3 of whatever got you to the higher weights to maintain, but the intensity, or weight, must be kept. So that means the duration and frequency can drop.
So if lifting 3 x weekly got you to high weights, 1 x weekly is good.

Now when starting out, who cares, you do just the circuit training for better effects, and you'll get lots out of it since just starting, and set yourself up for great form and usage when the heavier weights comes later.

You won't gain muscle doing once a week though at the higher weights. May still eek out some performance gains though.

But I would suggest the TDEE or eating more at least the 24 hrs after that workout, the pre-workout doesn't help with the effects of the workout, merely being able to do a good workout in the first place.
But since repair takes place 24-36 hrs later, or tad longer if really good shredded workout, the extra calories later will be put to good use.

Just confirm the loss continues during this first 6-9 months of lifting.
I see many examples of no weight loss during that time, and they enjoy the lifting so much, the weight loss later is going to be very difficult.

Tipularia · May 2015

Thank you for the confirmation!

I still have A LOT to lose, so weight loss must come before muscle building at this point, however I really want to walk the thin line between reasonable fat loss and muscle maintenance. I'm hoping I have made enough gains pre and during the reset that I've set myself up for success. I'm cutting at 20% right now, which I know is high, but I have over 100 lbs to lose, so feel that percentage is justified....for now.

Also, your suggestion of eating at TDEE the day after heavy lifting will work nicely into the experiment to see if eating at TDEE once a week will be as good as taking a week long diet break.

You rock!

Thanks!

Tipularia · May 2015

Huh. Interesting. I really pushed in the gym on Friday (circuits, with maybe a little too heavy weights). Anyway, after our conversation about a once a week TDEE day, I decided to eat a pretty high calorie dinner after the workout (I was also starving!) which brought me to TDEE for that day. Saturday I ate at 20% cut. Today, Sunday, I was down 2.2lbs from the last weigh-in on Friday.

Coincidence?

heybales · June 2015

May have lost some stress related water weight from Friday workout, but the lifting likely should have caused some retained water for repair at some point afterward.

Then Sat back in to deficit causing more water weight loss from less carbs stored.

The different ways your body can be having water weight changes, and at the same time, is always interesting.

Like usually someone starting a cardio routine when they start their diet - they are so out of shape the first week or two that their body has no need to increase carb stores because they can't go that long.
So first week big water weight drop from less sodium traditionally, and losing some carb store water weight.
Then next week normal fat loss only.
Then next week improvements from cardio start and carb stored water weight goes back up.

You'll see that complaint as "3rd week weight loss stopped and I even increased my cardio by then".
Yep, exactly.

Tipularia · June 2015

Exactly! But I was also down a half pound on Friday before lifting (weight was up on Saturday morning, which I expect after lifting). So, total weight loss this week was almost 3 pounds below the set-point weight I've been bouncing at and above for five months. Granted, much of that might have been water weight, but to finally blast through the floor of my plateau is a great feeling.

heybales · June 2015

Since the loss of stress related water weight indicates good things, even if just water weight for decent amount, that means good thing and good direction.

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Diet rest week(s) vs. day/week

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